Sebelius: Insurers Will Be Punished For Telling The Truth

so uhm take no.3, this is going to cost 900 billion? Thats already been blown out of the window, you know it, I know it.

The justification given in the article for identifying that estimate as a lie (which, frankly, doesn't even make sense as the offending quote is about Obama's proposal in his September 2009 speech, which presumably most people understand isn't exactly what came out of Congress later that year) is a CBO estimate of discretionary spending related to the law which supposedly hadn't been accounted for. Except that two days after releasing that estimate, the CBO clarified that indeed most of it had already been accounted for: "Thus, CBO’s discretionary baseline, which assumes that 2010 appropriations are extended with adjustments for anticipated inflation, already accounts for much of the potential discretionary spending under PPACA. In addition, there are a number of other items that could overlap some or even by a considerable amount with current law activities assumed in CBO’s baseline."

I think my favorite item in the list is #7, the other cost argument. We're told two things:

1) First that the CBO estimated that individual market premiums would be higher in a few years. Which is true and it isn't. An apples-to-apples comparison of plan costs before and after reform actually shows that prices for equivalent plans will decrease. But a great many plans in the individual market right now offer shoddy coverage, which they won't after the reforms go into effect. The end result is that the the price of the average plan will rise as the quality of coverage offered increases. So that's true. But CBO estimates that about 80% of the people in the exchanges will be receiving subsidies. CBO tells us that the "amount that subsidized enrollees would pay for nongroup coverage would be roughly 56 percent to 59 percent lower, on average, than the nongroup premiums charged under current law."

In other words, the vast majority of people in the exchanges are going to be getting substantially better coverage (which will overall cost less than that same coverage would cost if offered in the non-group market today) and they'll personally be paying substantially less for it than they're paying right now for their, on average, inferior coverage.

2) We're told that in July 2009 Doug Elemendorf testified that the reform bills would bend the cost curve the wrong way. From the very article they link to:

Asked what provisions should be added, Elmendorf suggested changing the way Medicare reimburses providers to create incentives for reducing costs. He also suggested ending or limiting the tax-free treatment of employer-provided health benefits, calling it a federal "subsidy" that encourages spending on ever-more-expensive health packages.

And it's true, in July 2009 those provisions weren't in the legislation. But they are in the bill signed by the President last March. Let me repeat that: the things Elmendorf suggested in July 2009 were necessary for bending the cost curve were put into the final bill. Using an outdated article to make the argument that Elmendorf says this law will bend the cost curve upwards is either shoddy research or outright dishonesty.
 
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B'loney. Most people are very happy with the insurance. I have a family member with a serious precobditon, and we've never had a denied claim. A few outlier sob stories flogged by anti-business moonbats are not the norm.

Flatly untrue, and I know that you can't support it.
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls getting businesses to offer health insurance as a benefit to entice workers to come and stay; coupling insurance with employment is just plain dumb, your a layoff and an illness away from being ruined; to Medicare,HMO ACT ,ERISA,State mandates,etc. pushing costs upward and more government isn't going to solve what government created to begin with....a clusterfuck of problems in the health care/health insurance sectors.

Amazing how health and mortality rates increased steadily then until the 1980s slowed them down with Reaganism and since.
 
I had a conversation with someone (I won't say who) who has a big job in the HC industry (I won't say where) who claims that small non-profit insurers are closing up shop as we speak. He said that our EHRs are currently being outsourced to India as will most of our claims in the near future.
No doubt!! Obama has ALL those crooks on-the-RUN, presently!!!!!!

:woohoo:
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls.....
Yeah....sure....THAT'S when it happened......
297.png
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls.....
Yeah....sure....THAT'S when it happened......
297.png

Yep, thanks for making my point....Medicare Part "D"...more government intervention.

Pos Rep forthcoming, thanks for bringing it up!!!!:clap2::clap2::clap2:
 
I had a conversation with someone (I won't say who) who has a big job in the HC industry (I won't say where) who claims that small non-profit insurers are closing up shop as we speak. He said that our EHRs are currently being outsourced to India as will most of our claims in the near future. He predicts an oligopoly of 6 or 7 major companies left in the exchange within the next five years. I believe this person who has no axe to grind with the government. In fact, outsourcing is his business. (oops - don't tell Kathleen, k?)


Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big Unions, and Big Government are the special interests which benefit from ObamaCare.
Yeah....that's why they spent so much money trying to KILL ObamaCare, huh?? :eusa_eh:

(Nice spin, on your part, though.
260.gif
)​
 
B'loney. Most people are very happy with the insurance. I have a family member with a serious precobditon, and we've never had a denied claim. A few outlier sob stories flogged by anti-business moonbats are not the norm.

Flatly untrue, and I know that you can't support it.
Whew!! You're suggest Mom & Dad might be lying to boedicca????? :eek:
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls getting businesses to offer health insurance as a benefit to entice workers to come and stay; coupling insurance with employment is just plain dumb, your a layoff and an illness away from being ruined; to Medicare,HMO ACT ,ERISA,State mandates,etc. pushing costs upward and more government isn't going to solve what government created to begin with....a clusterfuck of problems in the health care/health insurance sectors.

Amazing how health and mortality rates increased steadily then until the 1980s slowed them down with Reaganism and since.
Just more o' that magic o' Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself!!
 
I had a conversation with someone (I won't say who) who has a big job in the HC industry (I won't say where) who claims that small non-profit insurers are closing up shop as we speak. He said that our EHRs are currently being outsourced to India as will most of our claims in the near future. He predicts an oligopoly of 6 or 7 major companies left in the exchange within the next five years. I believe this person who has no axe to grind with the government. In fact, outsourcing is his business. (oops - don't tell Kathleen, k?)


Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big Unions, and Big Government are the special interests which benefit from ObamaCare.
Yeah....that's why they spent so much money trying to KILL ObamaCare, huh?? :eusa_eh:

(Nice spin, on your part, though.
260.gif
)​

Health plans propose guaranteed coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions in conjunction with an enforceable individual coverage mandate. To help working families afford coverage, advanceable and refundable tax credits should be available, phasing out as income approaches 400 percent of the federal poverty line.
Insurance Lobby plan
"The plan also calls for shoring up the health care safety net by making eligible for Medicaid every uninsured American living in poverty and strengthening the ChildrenÂ’s Health Insurance Program."

Health Plans Offer Comprehensive Reform Proposal

Looks a lot like Obamacare, of course the subsidies the Democrats gave them was rich gravy:clap2:
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls getting businesses to offer health insurance as a benefit to entice workers to come and stay; coupling insurance with employment is just plain dumb, your a layoff and an illness away from being ruined; to Medicare,HMO ACT ,ERISA,State mandates,etc. pushing costs upward and more government isn't going to solve what government created to begin with....a clusterfuck of problems in the health care/health insurance sectors.

Amazing how health and mortality rates increased steadily then until the 1980s slowed them down with Reaganism and since.

Health costs were pretty stable;around 6% of GDP; until Medicare and the HMO Act passed, they've been rising ever since, mortality rates might have to do with such things as technological advances/stagnation's, diets,lifestyle etc.
 
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I have had health insurance for most of my life. You care to guess how many claims have been denied? -0-

Total claims my wife has had denied? -0-

Kids? -0-

Me either. But to imply it doesn't happen to others is just plain dumb.
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls.....
Yeah....sure....THAT'S when it happened......
297.png

Yep, thanks for making my point....Medicare Part "D"...more government intervention.
i.e. Lil' Dumbya handing-out MA$$IVE $ub$idie$ to health-care providers (a little after FDR was gone. :tongue:)​
 
It's more complicated than "blaming or defending insurance companies". I'll be the first to state that our system has been messed up for years BUT it was due to government intervention to begin with dating back to FDR's wage and price controls getting businesses to offer health insurance as a benefit to entice workers to come and stay; coupling insurance with employment is just plain dumb, your a layoff and an illness away from being ruined; to Medicare,HMO ACT ,ERISA,State mandates,etc. pushing costs upward and more government isn't going to solve what government created to begin with....a clusterfuck of problems in the health care/health insurance sectors.

Amazing how health and mortality rates increased steadily then until the 1980s slowed them down with Reaganism and since.
Just more o' that magic o' Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself!!

This post would be awesome but for one thing.....Health insurance industry is highly regulated.:eek:
 

Yep, thanks for making my point....Medicare Part "D"...more government intervention.
i.e. Lil' Dumbya handing-out MA$$IVE $ub$idie$ to health-care providers (a little after FDR was gone. :tongue:)​

Your exactly right, more government intervention and they passed it UNREAD, intervention by both parties. Wait, you thought I was a Republican partisan hack:eusa_eh:.....$Rofl_3e.gif, My sides! My sides!!!! My rib cage is killing me!!!$Rofl_3e.gif
 
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15th post
Amazing how health and mortality rates increased steadily then until the 1980s slowed them down with Reaganism and since.
Just more o' that magic o' Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself!!

This post would be awesome but for one thing.....Health insurance industry is highly regulated.:eek:
Yeah.....jacking-up your Premium Rates, to look more-profitable (on Wall Street), really sounds like they're victim to heavy-duty regulations.

:rolleyes:
 
Just more o' that magic o' Allowing The Marketplace To Regulate Itself!!

This post would be awesome but for one thing.....Health insurance industry is highly regulated.:eek:
Yeah.....jacking-up your Premium Rates, to look more-profitable (on Wall Street), really sounds like they're victim to heavy-duty regulations.

:rolleyes:

Hey, don't get mad at me, it's not my fault that the highest costs is in the most regulated states like Vermont and New York, that government gives insurance companies billions in subsidies each year and provides them with guaranteed consumers, that's your precious GOVERNMENT'S fault, not mine or free markets fault, our asses hadn't had a seat at the table in generations.:clap2::clap2::clap2:
 
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That's what tort actions are for. If the government wishes to sue an insurer for libel or defamation, then let them follow the proper process. Restricting speech as a condition of getting business is an abuse of power.

Wat. You seem to not get the fact that nobody is forcing these companies to do anything. The government can pick and choose who gets a contract, just like a boss of a company can choose which suppliers he wants supplying his company. Just like the shareholders of a publicly traded company however, we the shareholders of the government can vote against the boss if we don't like what the boss is doing.

I don't think they can. There is nothing in the law itself, as far as I know, that allows the government to prohibit any company from participating in the exchanges. If the Obama administration can do so simply because they do not like what that company says, what is to prohibit the Beck administration from doing the same thing when he gets elected? What if he decides to only award contracts to companies that do not support abortion, or cover breast cancer?

Supporting it one way, and opposing it the other, is a double standard. You are better off just opposing it completely.

:lol: Is that a little dangling carrot I see?

Thanks for the heads up as to where you're really coming from. Beck & Palin 2012? Sure.
 
Like they were fed up with the lies the corporations told about how their costs were going up because of Obamacare?

What?

Are you claiming you did not know about this?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/business/27health.html?_r=1&ref=business

Democrats are fascists at heart, which is why they always attack business, even when it is telling the truth.

Do you even know what fascism is? Corporatism = Fascism.

It's the Corporate State, Stupid
 
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