Screw Abstinence Party

[Gabriella84]

Wow....did I miss something here? I didn't think Hobbitt's post reflected any hate whatsoever.

But yours sounds like a pretty personal frontal assault Gabrielle.

Stick around a bit longer and you will know what I am talking about.

 

[Gabriella84]

I was looking more for a list of other things besides sex that you believe should be abstained from.

Some people here abstain from thinking. :baby:

 

[MissileMan]

Just for clarification........I advocate abstinence in lieu of irresponsible and unprotected sex.

Yeah, I got that much from your earlier post. I wasn't questioning that.

Rudeness would be one that I would teach my children to abstain from.

No argument from me on this either.

How about you? Do you think there is anything one should abstain from?

My list would be infinite given the broadness of the question, which leads me back to the original request for ellaboration.

You wrote:

And, abstinence (or self denial) should not just be taught in reference to sex, but should be encouraged in all aspects of one's life.....especially for our children. The lack of encouraging abstinence in all areas of society has, in my opinion, led to our current belief of "entitlement".

I was merely trying to understand what other aspects of life you're talking about.

 

[kurtsprincess]

KP, I appreciate you obviously well-thought viewpoints, even as I disagree with them.
My opinion of the death penalty changed when I was a senior in high school. I was writing a term paper about it. I read about a man whose two teenage daughters were raped and killed by two men, who were caught and charged. Surprising, the father pleaded for life imprisionment. I don't remember his exact statement (which was incredibly powerful), but this was the gist of it.

"These two men are animals, the lowest of the low. Death is too good for them. Why should they get off? I have to think about the loss of my children every day. Every god damn day!
I want these two men to suffer the same way. I want them in prison for the rest of their lives. I want every man in their prison block to know they raped and murdered two children. I want them to live in fear for the rest of their lives. I want them to spend every waking moment, for the rest of their worthless lives, thinking about what they did. I want them to know that they will never be free. They will never spend time with their friends and families. Everyone in their lives will scorn and abandon them. They will spend the rest of their lives as worthless garbage, like spoiled fruit forgotten on a shelf.
When I am 50, 60, 70 years old, I want to know that they are still in prison. I want to know that they are forgotten and rotting away. Killing is too good for some people. It's too easy. Let them suffer, like my children suffered."

Now see......I think this is more hateful than just executing them. Not to mention the exhorbitant cost to the taxpayers to keep them alive, housed and fed for life. All that money could be spent on helping the truly needy. Or calculate what it would take to keep them alive for the rest of their lives and give that money to the families of the victims. That would be poetic justice.

Unfortunately, not all criminals are scorned and abandoned, nor treated like worthless garbage. Some do quite well in prison and are not forgotten and rotting away. And, there is always the possibility that some truly progressive do-gooders will find a way to get them released back into society. Nope.....haven't changed my mind.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Yeah, I got that much from your earlier post. I wasn't questioning that.



No argument from me on this either.


My list would be infinite given the broadness of the question, which leads me back to the original request for ellaboration.

You wrote:


I was merely trying to understand what other aspects of life you're talking about.

My list would also be infinite.........and all pertain to helping one live a healthy, fulfilled, and balanced life. Perhaps we can keep this thread going forever if each of us posts one at a time.

Your turn!

 

[MissileMan]

My list would also be infinite.........and all pertain to helping one live a healthy, fulfilled, and balanced life. Perhaps we can keep this thread going forever if each of us posts one at a time.

Your turn!

I would abstain from sitting naked on a fire ant mound. Your turn.

 

[kurtsprincess]

I would abstain from sticking carrots in my nose!!! Or anything else!
:gross2:

 

[Hobbit]

Hobbit, everytime I am exposed to your ridiculous, hate-ridden viewpoints, I become sympathetic about how horrible it must be to be you. No wonder you've never had a date.

No, YOU are the one who is full of hate! About the most insulting thing I said was that it's arrogant to think that you can decide whose life is worth living. I want to save children from abortion because I LOVE them. Can't you get that through your thick skull? As for the death penalty, I'm split, so no dice there.

See, this is so typical of so many self-righteous idiots in this world. I opposed her views with views that were backed up and well thought out, but since they opposed your views, you call it hate and label me as a hate-monger. Well, let me tell you something missy, I've seen hate. As a small-framed, white kid in high school, I was targeted by some people because I was white, sometimes because I was smart, sometimes because my dad was fairly successful, and a lot of times because I simply looked like an easy target (3-5 hours of swim practice every day made that untrue). I have stared into the face of hate and watched those burning eyes stare back at me. I have fought hate all my life with words, fists, and boldness in the face of danger. You know NOTHING of hate, you self-absorbed, self-righteous, know-it-all. YOU...DON'T...KNOW...JACK!! You have probably never even witnessed true hate, just opposition you labeled as hate because it's what makes you feel better about yourself. Well, as a person who has seen hate face to face, I am HIGHLY insulted by your comments. If you said that to my face, I would slap you with great fury, and say something to the effect of, "If you EVER say that or anything like it to me EVER again, I will slap you so hard there's a handprint on the OTHER side of your face." Now, don't you DARE ever again slap me with labels you know nothing about. I know true hate. I know true racism. I have seen the truth behind these labels you slap onto anyone you disagree with, so don't you DARE try your tactics on me.

I always begin with new people by treating them with a typical amount of respect. Those who act civilly will continue to get repectable treatment. Those who debate coherently, can admit when they're wrong, and at least try to credibly back up their services earn my respect. You, on the other hand, are childish and spout off whatever you think and assume it's fact. That gets me a little annoyed, and I've tried to avoid attacking anything but your posts. Now, you've attacked me in a very personal, very ignorant, and very vicious way. You have lost every last iota of respect with me and will probably never gain it back. I don't want your opinion on anything else anymore. Don't bother responding to anything I post, because I will ignore it. Don't bother pming me. You can't talk your way out of this one. And don't expect me to respond to anything you post until I see a considerable amount of civility or a public apology.

P.S. Your rep would be dinged, but the system won't let me.

P.P.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence, KP.

 

[Bonnie]

Just follow the money trail. NARAL and Planned Parenthood work hand-in-hand, and NARAL is supported by abortion clinics and their personnel. They have an economic interest in teens having sex. No sex= no abortions= no $$

Exactly right, and a lot of that money goes into pro-abortion candidates election tills which is why so many candidates who were once pro-life found out where the real money was and switched (I mean had an epiphany)LOL selling their own souls to get re-elected.

Think Al Gore!!

 

[kurtsprincess]

P.P.S. Thanks for the vote of confidence, KP.

You're welcome!

This was one of the first threads I read as a new member and I was quite taken aback by what was said to you and couldn't connect the attack with anything you said in your original post. :scratch:

 

[Gabriella84]

What part of "killing is killing" do you not understand? KP, are you saying that we should kill people just to save money? That doesn't make sense.
We already have prisons. Way too many of them, actually. The cost of litigating death sentences is much more than merely confining people in prison. We do that anyway. With the death penalty, you need the checks and balances built in with the appeal process.
Abortion is different. You are talking about life forms that do not yet exist. I think everyone who supports the "rights of the unborn" needs to come up with about $20,000 to support one. But, of course, you don't think of that. As long as the kid is born, you could care less whether the mom chunks him/her in the trash bin an hour later. It's a "child" until it is born, then it becomes nothing to you. It's someone else's problem.
If you want be to support the "rights of the unborn," here is what you do. Find a mother that wants to have an abortion, then convince her not to. Pay all the pregnancy costs, then adopt the baby when it is born. If it means that much to you, why not step up to the plate?

That is where conservatives stand on sex education. You want kids to say "no" and that is the end of it. If the child decides to have sex, not knowing a damn thing about it, and gets pregnant, now its becomes your decision and not theirs. You are telling them "go have the kid (even if you are a kid yourself), then raise it. We are not supporting you. Your fault."
Bingo, a kid becomes a criminal.

So go ahead, flex your muscles and overturn the abortion laws. And when your daughter or granddaughter becomes pregnant and is afraid to tell you, I will bring her the coat hanger.

 

[Abbey Normal]

...
If you want be to support the "rights of the unborn," here is what you do. Find a mother that wants to have an abortion, then convince her not to. Pay all the pregnancy costs, then adopt the baby when it is born. If it means that much to you, why not step up to the plate?
...

You have described exactly what many, many Christian churches do, and as church members, our tithing supports this monetarily. If you are this unaware of church practices, how can you possibly write as you do on the topic?

 

[kurtsprincess]

What part of "killing is killing" do you not understand? KP, are you saying that we should kill people just to save money? That doesn't make sense.

Those on death row, and I never said it was to "save" money. That money would just be redirected to those who truly deserve to be taken care of for life. And I truly don't understand why you would think a "convicted criminal" deserves to be taken care of for life, as opposed to the families of the victims. Where is your outrage for this disparity?

We already have prisons. Way too many of them, actually. The cost of litigating death sentences is much more than merely confining people in prison. We do that anyway. With the death penalty, you need the checks and balances built in with the appeal process.

Yes we do. And perhaps we should rethink all the appeals process and use that money to help those who truly do need the help.

Abortion is different. You are talking about life forms that do not yet exist.

Really? Is this truly what you think? That at the time of an abortion it is always done prior to the existence of life?

I think everyone who supports the "rights of the unborn" needs to come up with about $20,000 to support one.

No, this is the responsibility of the person who "chooses" to have unprotected sex and produces a child. Not the responsibility of those who support the rights of the unborn.

But, of course, you don't think of that. As long as the kid is born, you could care less whether the mom chunks him/her in the trash bin an hour later. It's a "child" until it is born, then it becomes nothing to you. It's someone else's problem.

That's making quite a leap there Gabby.....to think that just because I don't condone using abortion as a method of birth control means I condone chucking the child in the trash bin after the birth. That mother still has the "choice" of giving that child up for adoption, rather than making the choice to throw it away.

Do you truly believe that everyone who doesn't want a child will just "chuck" it in the trash?

If you want be to support the "rights of the unborn," here is what you do. Find a mother that wants to have an abortion, then convince her not to. Pay all the pregnancy costs, then adopt the baby when it is born. If it means that much to you, why not step up to the plate?

Why not teach that individual how to take responsibility for her own actions by helping her learn the skills to take care of her child. Why does it have to be either abortion or adoption in your opinion.

That is where conservatives stand on sex education. You want kids to say "no" and that is the end of it. If the child decides to have sex, not knowing a damn thing about it, and gets pregnant, now its becomes your decision and not theirs.

You are right....they made the decision to have unprotected sex and it's time society stepped in and taught our children what the results will be, instead of giving them an easy out, thus teaching them that they don't have to take accountability or responsibility for their actions.

And, I AM an advocate of teaching kids the results of having sex. There are several ways to avoid pregnancy and abstaining is just one of them.

You are telling them "go have the kid (even if you are a kid yourself), then raise it. We are not supporting you. Your fault." Bingo, a kid becomes a criminal.

I believe if we teach our children that abortion is not a form of birth control, they will more readily practice other types of birth control. Also, abstinence is not just for avoiding pregnancy....it's also a way of avoiding STDs.

So go ahead, flex your muscles and overturn the abortion laws.

Wow.......you really are putting your own spin to my words. I am not, nor have I advocated, overturning abortion laws.......this discussion is about teaching abstinence as a method of birth control, as opposed to teaching that abortion is an acceptable method of birth control.

And when your daughter or granddaughter becomes pregnant and is afraid to tell you, I will bring her the coat hanger.

You have no idea what I've been through as an individual or as a parent with regard to abortion, and this remark has been overused by the pro-abortion proponents and always smacks of childish frustration.

 

[Gunny]

KP, I appreciate you obviously well-thought viewpoints, even as I disagree with them.
My opinion of the death penalty changed when I was a senior in high school. I was writing a term paper about it. I read about a man whose two teenage daughters were raped and killed by two men, who were caught and charged. Surprising, the father pleaded for life imprisionment. I don't remember his exact statement (which was incredibly powerful), but this was the gist of it.

"These two men are animals, the lowest of the low. Death is too good for them. Why should they get off? I have to think about the loss of my children every day. Every god damn day!
I want these two men to suffer the same way. I want them in prison for the rest of their lives. I want every man in their prison block to know they raped and murdered two children. I want them to live in fear for the rest of their lives. I want them to spend every waking moment, for the rest of their worthless lives, thinking about what they did. I want them to know that they will never be free. They will never spend time with their friends and families. Everyone in their lives will scorn and abandon them. They will spend the rest of their lives as worthless garbage, like spoiled fruit forgotten on a shelf.
When I am 50, 60, 70 years old, I want to know that they are still in prison. I want to know that they are forgotten and rotting away. Killing is too good for some people. It's too easy. Let them suffer, like my children suffered."

In other words you are advocating psychological torture? Hmmmm.....

 

[Gunny]

What part of "killing is killing" do you not understand? KP, are you saying that we should kill people just to save money? That doesn't make sense.
We already have prisons. Way too many of them, actually. The cost of litigating death sentences is much more than merely confining people in prison. We do that anyway. With the death penalty, you need the checks and balances built in with the appeal process.
Abortion is different. You are talking about life forms that do not yet exist. I think everyone who supports the "rights of the unborn" needs to come up with about $20,000 to support one. But, of course, you don't think of that. As long as the kid is born, you could care less whether the mom chunks him/her in the trash bin an hour later. It's a "child" until it is born, then it becomes nothing to you. It's someone else's problem.
If you want be to support the "rights of the unborn," here is what you do. Find a mother that wants to have an abortion, then convince her not to. Pay all the pregnancy costs, then adopt the baby when it is born. If it means that much to you, why not step up to the plate?

That is where conservatives stand on sex education. You want kids to say "no" and that is the end of it. If the child decides to have sex, not knowing a damn thing about it, and gets pregnant, now its becomes your decision and not theirs. You are telling them "go have the kid (even if you are a kid yourself), then raise it. We are not supporting you. Your fault."
Bingo, a kid becomes a criminal.

So go ahead, flex your muscles and overturn the abortion laws. And when your daughter or granddaughter becomes pregnant and is afraid to tell you, I will bring her the coat hanger.

No matter how you wish to twist it, a fetus is an unborn human being deserving the same right to life that YOU possess. And please be specific. Who specifically doesn't care what happens to children after they are born? Or are you just painting with that broad, liberal brush of yours again?

If a person cannot afford to be a parent then they need to keep their damned pants on. What you keep avoiding is there are consequences for one's actions. You libs somehow have managed to undermine that little principle explaining, always shifting blame to someone or something else. The fact is, if you know you are not capable of being a parent then you should not be engaging in any activity that could make you one. It's this thing called self-descipline and being responsible.

 

[kurtsprincess]

In other words you are advocating psychological torture? Hmmmm.....

Not to mention a huge waste of taxpayer money.

I think this entire discussion clearly proves how someone can be for the death penalty and anti-abortion. Use the money that we currently spend on death row inmates to support unwanted children.

Heavy sarcasm fully intended.

 

[Gabriella84]

If a person cannot afford to be a parent then they need to keep their damned pants on. What you keep avoiding is there are consequences for one's actions. You libs somehow have managed to undermine that little principle explaining, always shifting blame to someone or something else. The fact is, if you know you are not capable of being a parent then you should not be engaging in any activity that could make you one. It's this thing called self-descipline and being responsible.

Obviously, you are not a female teen in the modern era. Things are not the same now as they were 40 years ago. Girls face an enormous amount of social pressure. Even if wealthy private and church schools, there is pressure. There is the normal male teen routine of lies and seduction. There is date rape and real physical rape. There is fear and extortion. All of which no male would EVER understand.
The idea that some teenager would be raped, then forced to have a child is totally abhorent. Why not just kill them on the spot? How about someone who is naive and innocent enough to be talked into having sex? It happens. Are you happy to scar them for the rest of their lives?

This is a problem that no male will ever be able to understand. Same thing with submissive, male-dominated females. It doesn't affect your life in any way, so why not just make all the rules and force someone else to live with them?

 

[Abbey Normal]

...

How about someone who is naive and innocent enough to be talked into having sex? It happens. Are you happy to scar them for the rest of their lives?

Abortion emotionally scars many, many women for the rest of their lives; a fact that Planned Parenthood and their ilk will never reveal to a girl thinking of aborting her child.

 

[Gunny]

Obviously, you are not a female teen in the modern era. Things are not the same now as they were 40 years ago. Girls face an enormous amount of social pressure. Even if wealthy private and church schools, there is pressure. There is the normal male teen routine of lies and seduction. There is date rape and real physical rape. There is fear and extortion. All of which no male would EVER understand.
The idea that some teenager would be raped, then forced to have a child is totally abhorent. Why not just kill them on the spot? How about someone who is naive and innocent enough to be talked into having sex? It happens. Are you happy to scar them for the rest of their lives?

This is a problem that no male will ever be able to understand. Same thing with submissive, male-dominated females. It doesn't affect your life in any way, so why not just make all the rules and force someone else to live with them?

I have TWO female teens TODAY, thanks. Forty years ago? I was 5.

There is no more pressure now than there was 30 years ago in the 70s. Who are you trying to kid? Why is it you kids all think you invented shit that's been around for ages. It just wansn't front page news then.

You're twisting shit when it comes to rape. When the police have the rape kit done they are offered an oral contraceptive at that time. A little responsibility would preclude most pregnancies via rape.

And no to the innocent and naive line. My daughters were both put on the pill to regulate their cycles, so they were told. Meanwhile, no accidents that I would take responsibility for rather than have them murdered.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Obviously, you are not a female teen in the modern era. Things are not the same now as they were 40 years ago. Girls face an enormous amount of social pressure. Even if wealthy private and church schools, there is pressure. There is the normal male teen routine of lies and seduction. There is date rape and real physical rape. There is fear and extortion. All of which no male would EVER understand.

Actually, Gabby, teenage girls of my era faced the same pressures. We also had hormones, as did the males of our age group (I know it's hard to grasp, but humans have pretty much been dominated by hormones for their entire existence). We also had social pressure...........to abstain.....but that didn't keep us from doing what came naturally. However, we didn't have the readily available birth control remedy of abortion handy, therefore, we practiced other methods of not getting pregnant.

Also, what makes you think rape and date rape didn't occur back then? And, FYI, date rape is "real physical rape". And, the fear and extortion were just as rampant back then as it is now.

The idea that some teenager would be raped, then forced to have a child is totally abhorent. Why not just kill them on the spot? How about someone who is naive and innocent enough to be talked into having sex? It happens. Are you happy to scar them for the rest of their lives?

Scarred for the rest of their lives......as opposed to taking the life of an innocent baby. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I believe it is a fair alternative.

This is a problem that no male will ever be able to understand. Same thing with submissive, male-dominated females. It doesn't affect your life in any way, so why not just make all the rules and force someone else to live with them?

Now, Gabby, do you really think all females who oppose using abortion as a method of birth control are male-dominated females? I certainly do not believe that all women who are pro-abortion are also anti-male.

You do make some valid points about rape, and you left out the whole incest aspect, and the option of abortion. I'm not opposed to abortion in the instance of rape or incest, or when the mother's life is at risk. However, as I mentioned previously, I am opposed to the indiscriminate use of abortion as a method of birth control.

I think I've pretty much said everything I want to regarding this subject. Can we agree to disagree on this particular aspect? :cof: