Sandusky......who is REQUIRED to report?

[Sunshine]

It is rarely who you think it is:

(CNN) -- Pennsylvania needs to change its law in the wake of a scandal over alleged child sexual abuse by a then-member of Penn State's football coaching team, the governor said Sunday.

A new law is needed to make sure reports of alleged child sexual abuse are made to government authorities, Tom Corbett said.

"Should the law be changed? Absolutely," Corbett said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Corbett was the attorney general who began an investigation of former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky.

A 23-page grand jury report released last weekend described crimes that Sandusky allegedly committed against young boys between 1994 and 2009 -- some of them on campus, both during and after his tenure at at Penn State.

Sandusky's attorney, Joseph Amendola, has said that his client disputes the report.

In 2002, a graduate assistant allegedly saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers of a campus athletics facility. The graduate student, Mike McQueary, informed Joe Paterno, the team's coach at the time, according to the grand jury report. Paterno then alerted his boss, the school's athletic director.

It was years before law enforcement first learned about the allegation.

Penn State Athletic Director Timothy Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz have been charged for failing to report the abuse to authorities and misleading investigators. Prosecutors determined that a legal duty to report the alleged abuse applied to them, but not to McQueary and Paterno.

Pennsylvania governor: Change law after Penn State scandal - CNN.com

 

[MeBelle]

I was under the assumption that any person who has any type of authority over children is REQUIRED to file a report with the police or the state DHSS.
This includes, doctors, teachers, nurses, caregivers, therapists etc.

It appears reporting requirements are different state by state. In this case, it is appears to be the responsibility of the witness, where in other states, a chain of command is followed.

McQueary and Paterno did follow the law.
It doesn't morally or ethically take them off the hook though.

 

[Sunshine]

I was under the assumption that any person who has any type of authority over children is REQUIRED to file a report with the police or the state DHSS.
This includes, doctors, teachers, nurses, caregivers, therapists etc.

It appears reporting requirements are different state by state. In this case, it is appears to be the responsibility of the witness, where in other states, a chain of command is followed.

McQueary and Paterno did follow the law.
It doesn't morally or ethically take them off the hook though.

Your morals do not transmigrate to other people.

 

[whitehall]

The law is good the way it is. You can't force people to inform the police about what they saw or what they thought they saw. Where would it end? Should we arrest innocent witnesses to crimes if they didn't come forward? Paterno had a duty to take action and it was a condition of employment. If he lied under oath to the Grand Jury that's a different matter and he can be charged.

 

[freedombecki]

The law is good the way it is. You can't force people to inform the police about what they saw or what they thought they saw. Where would it end? Should we arrest innocent witnesses to crimes if they didn't come forward? Paterno had a duty to take action and it was a condition of employment. If he lied under oath to the Grand Jury that's a different matter and he can be charged.

Crimes against children aren't the same, whitehall. Children and sometimes their parent(s) have been known to disappear or be found dead after being confrontational or noncooperative with a hardened criminal who has no intention of being confronted by police with his or her crimes. Pedophiles and the Slaughter of Innocence, CourtTV (now truTV)

 

[jillian]

The law is good the way it is. You can't force people to inform the police about what they saw or what they thought they saw. Where would it end? Should we arrest innocent witnesses to crimes if they didn't come forward? Paterno had a duty to take action and it was a condition of employment. If he lied under oath to the Grand Jury that's a different matter and he can be charged.

well, in most cases that's true as most states don't have 'good samaritan' laws requiring someone to act.

however, when it comes to child abuse, there are what are called mandated reporters. those people (e.g., teachers, doctors, hospital personnel) who are in a position to learn of abuse in the course of their employment, are required to notify police if they have reason to suspect abuse or neglect of a child.

paterno has other issues, though, since it went on for so long in HIS locker room. that makes him more complicit than some stranger on the street.

 

[whitehall]

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

 

[Mad Scientist]

I'm not sure the Prosecutor is correct:
Pennsylvania Child Abuse Laws - FindLaw

Mandatory Reporting Required By:
Physician, coroner, dentist, chiropractor, hospital personnel, Christian Science practitioner, clergy, school teacher/nurse/administrator, social services worker, day care or child center worker, mental health professional, peace officer, law enforcement official, funeral director, foster care worker

Does being a Coach make one an Administrator?
I'm willing to bet Paterno and McQueary has other postions (no pun intended) besides coach at Penn State.

 

[Amelia]

I was under the assumption that any person who has any type of authority over children is REQUIRED to file a report with the police or the state DHSS.
This includes, doctors, teachers, nurses, caregivers, therapists etc.

It appears reporting requirements are different state by state. In this case, it is appears to be the responsibility of the witness, where in other states, a chain of command is followed.

McQueary and Paterno did follow the law.
It doesn't morally or ethically take them off the hook though.

No kidding.

I wonder if McQueary apologized for interrupting Sandusky.

Did he tiptoe quietly out of the room so as not to distract him?




Oh geez, I'm sorry I opened the thread. I need that image out of my head. I don't want to think about it and yet I hate how the media sanitizes the story most of the time. "Sexual abuse" could be fondling or any number of things which while bad don't come close to what actually happened. How many people know that McQueary watched an anal rape, was apparently seen by Sandusky and the boy, and then just left while the "rhythmic slapping sounds" carried on? My husband didn't until I told him. Hadn't gotten that from any of the news reports. I only heard it one time on one local talk show.



Oh sh*t. I gotta go clean my brain now. I can't get rid of the sound.

 

[jillian]

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

the line is drawn when you're in a position of trust vis a vis the child.

a stranger in a mall isn't in such a position. nor is the home's gardener.

however, his gym teacher or coach is... maybe his scout leader.. the school nurse is, for sure; the guidence counselor, etc., etc., etc...

 

[Zoom-boing]

I was under the assumption that any person who has any type of authority over children is REQUIRED to file a report with the police or the state DHSS.
This includes, doctors, teachers, nurses, caregivers, therapists etc.

It appears reporting requirements are different state by state. In this case, it is appears to be the responsibility of the witness, where in other states, a chain of command is followed.

McQueary and Paterno did follow the law.
It doesn't morally or ethically take them off the hook though.

No kidding.

I wonder if McQueary apologized for interrupting Sandusky.

Did he tiptoe quietly out of the room so as not to distract him?




Oh geez, I'm sorry I opened the thread. I need that image out of my head. I don't want to think about it and yet I hate how the media sanitizes the story most of the time. "Sexual abuse" could be fondling or any number of things which while bad don't come close to what actually happened. How many people know that McQueary watched an anal rape, was apparently seen by Sandusky and the boy, and then just left while the "rhythmic slapping sounds" carried on? My husband didn't until I told him. Hadn't gotten that from any of the news reports. I only heard it one time on one local talk show.



Oh sh*t. I gotta go clean my brain now. I can't get rid of the sound.

I heard it. Just once. It's absolutely sickening.

As to this entire incident . . . . I don't give a shit what the 'proper channels of reporting' are. If you see this you fucking stop it and report it. PERIOD. What the hell was going through McQueary's brain???? How the hell do you NOT beat the shit out the the adult raping a child? ? What the hell was Paterno thinking?? That McQ was lying or making it up or what?? OMG you stop a monster from the act. These people should be taken out and shot.

 

[whitehall]

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

the line is drawn when you're in a position of trust vis a vis the child.

a stranger in a mall isn't in such a position. nor is the home's gardener.

however, his gym teacher or coach is... maybe his scout leader.. the school nurse is, for sure; the guidence counselor, etc., etc., etc...

Let's narrow it down. Should school nurses be liable for prosecution if they fail to call the police when they see a bruise on a child or if they fail to see a bruise on a child? Should a athletic coach be liable for prosecution for not reporting to the police that a kid has a sore leg or a cut lip? Should a baseball coach be arrested for failing to report that a kid was pushed or slapped by a parent at a game? Here's where it gets a bit sticky, should a teacher be arrested if he hears about a homosexual teacher inappropriately touching a student and fails to report it?

 

[Amelia]

The law is good the way it is. You can't force people to inform the police about what they saw or what they thought they saw. Where would it end? Should we arrest innocent witnesses to crimes if they didn't come forward? Paterno had a duty to take action and it was a condition of employment. If he lied under oath to the Grand Jury that's a different matter and he can be charged.

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

the line is drawn when you're in a position of trust vis a vis the child.

a stranger in a mall isn't in such a position. nor is the home's gardener.

however, his gym teacher or coach is... maybe his scout leader.. the school nurse is, for sure; the guidence counselor, etc., etc., etc...

Let's narrow it down. Should school nurses be liable for prosecution if they fail to call the police when they see a bruise on a child or if they fail to see a bruise on a child? Should a athletic coach be liable for prosecution for not reporting to the police that a kid has a sore leg or a cut lip? Should a baseball coach be arrested for failing to report that a kid was pushed or slapped by a parent at a game? Here's where it gets a bit sticky, should a teacher be arrested if he hears about a homosexual teacher inappropriately touching a student and fails to report it?

A 25-year-old former quarterback who sees a 10-year-old boy being raped should stop the rape and turn the perp over to the police.

Why are you talking about bruises?

Whatever line you want to draw, if it puts witnessing rape and not calling the police (much less trying to stop it when you have that ability) on the side of "innocent witness", then you've drawn the line wrong.

 

[jillian]

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

the line is drawn when you're in a position of trust vis a vis the child.

a stranger in a mall isn't in such a position. nor is the home's gardener.

however, his gym teacher or coach is... maybe his scout leader.. the school nurse is, for sure; the guidence counselor, etc., etc., etc...

Let's narrow it down. Should school nurses be liable for prosecution if they fail to call the police when they see a bruise on a child or if they fail to see a bruise on a child? Should a athletic coach be liable for prosecution for not reporting to the police that a kid has a sore leg or a cut lip? Should a baseball coach be arrested for failing to report that a kid was pushed or slapped by a parent at a game? Here's where it gets a bit sticky, should a teacher be arrested if he hears about a homosexual teacher inappropriately touching a student and fails to report it?

in general, pedophiles are heterosexual.

if you're really interested in this subject, you'll stick to relevant hypotheticals and not those based on your own irrational biases.

a school nurse is already a mandated reporter. i'm not sure what the nature of the reporting requirement is, though.. .whether it's to the school or to the police. i suspect it's the school. the school then is mandated to notify the authorities... at least that's the best of my knowledge.

this isn't about a kid being pushed or slapped by a parent.

this is about witnessing a child being raped.

this is about the important people in this institution KNOWING that children were being victimized and doing nothing about it in order to protect the institution at all costs.

that's pretty inexcusable.

 

[whitehall]

The vast majority of pedophiles are men. Men are seldom placed in positions of authority over young girls. The sad truth is that pedophiles prey on children they supervise, usually young boys. Be careful what you wish for. If innocent people might held criminally responsible for not reporting homosexual contacts with children they hear about or see what do you think is going to happen?

 

[Amelia]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet on the board, but this is the thread I've been posting in so I'll say it here.

NBC reports an email sent by McQueary after all the bad news broke where he said that he did stop the rape, that somehow the reporting on his grand jury testimony has been skewed.

I didn't catch who the email was sent to, but it sounds like it might have gone to friends of his because of one point where he said "you know me" as if to say they knew that he wasn't the kind of guy to walk away after seeing a rape and just let it go on.

 

[Sunshine]

Where do you draw the line? You walk through the mall and see a stranger slap a kid in the face and you find yourself charged with a crime because you were identified and failed to call the authorities? It's not that far fetched. What about a gardener who sees kids wearing filthy clothes? Is he required to determine the extent of abuse and report it or be charged with a crime?

the line is drawn when you're in a position of trust vis a vis the child.

a stranger in a mall isn't in such a position. nor is the home's gardener.

however, his gym teacher or coach is... maybe his scout leader.. the school nurse is, for sure; the guidence counselor, etc., etc., etc...

ONLY if the state's laws say so. And the state laws outline very clearly who has the legal duty to report. Otherwise there is no legal obligation. Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing the word 'moral' from people who I gather from reading their posts have the morals of alley cats. Most on here have no morals of their own, but would glibly dictate morals to others. In the world of reporting abuse the ONLY legal standard is what the law of your state says. Anyone with a legal duty to report abuse is both mandated AND protected by those laws. Any good faith report by one who is mandated to reporty is protected. If you are not mandated and you just start reporting your family and friends without any proof, you could have a big problem on your hands. And you cannot always bank on the child concurring with your report.

It appears that states are looking at their laws. I went to law school in TN and here is an interesting article I ran across:

KNOXVILLE (WATE) - Child sex abuse laws can differ from state to state.

In Tennessee, "If you're in the health care or medical profession and you witness potential child abuse, you have an affirmative reporting duty," says attorney and 6 News legal analyst Greg Isaacs.

The same is true for teachers, ministers and counselors. The law doesn't clearly define how a coach would be classified, if they are considered teachers or not.

Not everyone has a legal obligation to report a crime. "Even when you're legally not required, many people would argue that a person in a high position of authority or power has a moral obligation to go beyond either what the organization or the law requires," Dr. Leap said.

Tennessee laws for reporting child sex abuse

As to that second quote, I would say this: The law is definitely someone's effort to legislate morality. If the people of a state believe there is a 'moral' duty to report, then they need to get that duty codified. Otherwise, there is no duty to report.

 

[whitehall]

If you are in a position of authority over children and an associate molests a child you are responsible for and you are aware of it I'd say the state has a pretty good case against you as a co-conspirator right now.

 

[tstat87]

Joe Paterno should have no legal repercussions. He was not in a position of authority over the children being abused by Sandusky, and was actually in no position of authority of children at all, simply young legal adults. However, he did deserve to get fired for ethics reasons, due to the fact he did not do all he could, if it is indeed true that McQueary told Paterno about the allegations. Listening to McQueary changing his story, I don't know if I can even believe that McQueary told Paterno everything that he saw. According to police, McQueary never even reported the incident to the police. This makes me doubt anything he has told the media and the Grand Jury he testified to. Until it is proven that McQueary actually, without a doubt, told JoePa what happened, then I don't see how a Paterno could have any legal liability in this case.

 

[editec]

Sandusky......who is REQUIRED to report?

Cowards and perverts need not apply