Sanders: Universal Healthcare and Free College Aren’t Radical Ideas, They Are ‘Human Rights’

[CultureCitizen]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

You might want to investigate the difference between "expensive" and "spending". See, expensive is how much each procedure costs. Spending, on the other hand, is how much is spent in total on anything healthcare-related. This includes all the non-essential spending on things like Lasik, hearing aids, cosmetic surgery, frequent diagnostics by hypochondriacs, orthodontia, vitamins . . .

Part of the reason that the US spends so much on health care every year is because we can. We are a wealthy nation, with people who are more than willing to use their discretionary funds to improve their quality of life. That's not a bad thing.

That still makes US hospitals the most expensive in the world.

 

[Political Junky]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

Yeah, whether they want it or not. Let's not forget that, unless you have the money to pay for medical expenses out of pocket, you're forced onto Medicare when you qualify, will you or nill you.

How many do you know on the Right have refused Medicare? It's great.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

Yeah, whether they want it or not. Let's not forget that, unless you have the money to pay for medical expenses out of pocket, you're forced onto Medicare when you qualify, will you or nill you.

How many that you know on the Right have refused Medicare? It's great.

Why would anybody refuse to use something they were FORCED to pay into their entire lives?

 

[Political Junky]

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

You've certainly bought into the Right's arguments.
Why is it that most of Europe has longer life expectancy than in the US. They also have lower infant mortality than we do.

 

[Political Junky]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

Yeah, whether they want it or not. Let's not forget that, unless you have the money to pay for medical expenses out of pocket, you're forced onto Medicare when you qualify, will you or nill you.

How many that you know on the Right have refused Medicare? It's great.

Why would anybody refuse to use something they were FORCED to pay into their entire lives?

Exactly. That's why I asked how many she knew who refused Medicare.

 

[easyt65]

Anyone who thinks FREE COLLEGE is a 'human right' is mentally disturbed or insane.

Years ago businesses would teach people a trade. If the person would agree to stay with the company for a certain number of years after trained, the company would train and pay them No one GAVE them a 'free' education - they earned a career.

And anyone who uses the term 'FREE' in regards a social program un-willingly paid for through taxes confiscated from hard-working middle class citizens is a brainwashed Socialist idiot!

 

[The Rabbi]

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

Oy.
The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare. That's typucally why people do what you do.
Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return? In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices. Profit is a positive in healthcare, as elsewhere, not a negative. Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes. Socialism does the opposite.

The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.
Well then , which stats do you want to use to compare different countries ? WHO ?
It is very easy to disregard stats, but then you should provide a better source.
Other sources point towards the same direction.
Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare.
Indeed. I've never said the opposite. A Beetle is far cheaper than a BMW, but hey , if the Beetle suits your needs ..

Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return?
Those were different alternatives. In community owned hospitals you would get a return AND if the hospital charges you sky high prices you also get a return .

In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices.
No , not really

Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes.
Indeed , but you need profit AND competition , and current insurance schemes damp competition.

The correct metric has been supplied. If you get sick in America your ability to get seen early is greater and your health outcome is greater. This is a fact.
So the fact that you go to Mexico, like many others, is not proof the US system delivers worse care, which is what you contended. Point refuted.
Your point about communty hospitals is incoherent. If the purpose of them is to reduce medical costs then you've already admitted it wont do that.
Medicare dictates payments, private insurance negotiates payments. Thus the difference. In any case you are citing payments for medical services, not medical insurance premiums. Surely you know the difference.

 

[The Rabbi]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

Yeah, whether they want it or not. Let's not forget that, unless you have the money to pay for medical expenses out of pocket, you're forced onto Medicare when you qualify, will you or nill you.

How many do you know on the Right have refused Medicare? It's great.

You basically cannot refuse to sign up for Medicare.
/point refuted.

 

[The Rabbi]

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

You've certainly bought into the Right's arguments.
Why is it that most of Europe has longer life expectancy than in the US. They also have lower infant mortality than we do.

They drink more wine. ANd they have no inner city ghetto blacks or Hispanics.

 

[dblack]

Anyone who thinks FREE COLLEGE is a 'human right' is mentally disturbed or insane.

That seems a bit extreme. More likely they just don't have a clear understanding of what rights are. People claiming things like health care or education as "rights" are defining rights broadly as "something good government ought to provide". It's sloppy, and can be deliberate obfuscation, but it's not insane.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Anyone who thinks FREE COLLEGE is a 'human right' is mentally disturbed or insane.

yes I agree they should be required to say: My college education should be paid for by you, even if you killed yourself to pay for your own!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

You've certainly bought into the Right's arguments.
Why is it that most of Europe has longer life expectancy than in the US. They also have lower infant mortality than we do.

Different countries measure infant mortality rate differently.

In some countries, if the child has a defect and dies in a few weeks, they don't consider that a life. In the US, if a child takes one breath, it's considered a living human being regardless of it's survival ability.

In the US we are a multicultural people. Some of our cultures are more violent than others thus a much higher murder rate. We also have more citizens driving in the US than any other country. I believe we average about 40,000 deaths per year just on the road alone. Many people in Europe use public transportation.

These deaths are frequently younger people which brings our mortality rate down. The statistics would fool some into believing that it must all be because of our healthcare when there are so many other factors involved.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

Oy.
The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare. That's typucally why people do what you do.
Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return? In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices. Profit is a positive in healthcare, as elsewhere, not a negative. Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes. Socialism does the opposite.

The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.
Well then , which stats do you want to use to compare different countries ? WHO ?
It is very easy to disregard stats, but then you should provide a better source.
Other sources point towards the same direction.
Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare.
Indeed. I've never said the opposite. A Beetle is far cheaper than a BMW, but hey , if the Beetle suits your needs ..

Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return?
Those were different alternatives. In community owned hospitals you would get a return AND if the hospital charges you sky high prices you also get a return .

In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices.
No , not really

Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes.
Indeed , but you need profit AND competition , and current insurance schemes damp competition.

The correct metric has been supplied. If you get sick in America your ability to get seen early is greater and your health outcome is greater. This is a fact.

So the fact that you go to Mexico, like many others, is not proof the US system delivers worse care, which is what you contended. Point refuted.
Your point about communty hospitals is incoherent. If the purpose of them is to reduce medical costs then you've already admitted it wont do that.
Medicare dictates payments, private insurance negotiates payments. Thus the difference. In any case you are citing payments for medical services, not medical insurance premiums. Surely you know the difference.

The correct metric has been supplied. If you get sick in America your ability to get seen early is greater and your health outcome is greater. This is a fact.
Well , post the link.
If you are refering to Andylusion's post , then that is not valid. It's 25 years old.

So the fact that you go to Mexico, like many others, is not proof the US system delivers worse care, which is what you contended. Point refuted.
No point proven or disproven. Cecile stated :
Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I simply gave an answer.

Your point about communty hospitals is incoherent. If the purpose of them is to reduce medical costs then you've already admitted it wont do that.
No , it is not. If the hospitals get a profit, you as an owner get a profit.
If the hospital gets no profit you get no profit , but you get healthcare at the lowest price available.

Medicare dictates payments, private insurance negotiates payments. Thus the difference. In any case you are citing payments for medical services, not medical insurance premiums. Surely you know the difference

The post was unrelated to medicare, I was simply giving ideas for the available options. There are many more. For example in Japan the patient covers only 30% of the cost , the government pays the rest. Then you have to do some shopping.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Then you have to do some shopping.

yes its like capitalism which gives both patient and doctor the maximum incentive to raise quality and lower price. IF we switched to capitalism we could cut the cost of care in half the first year.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

You've certainly bought into the Right's arguments.
Why is it that most of Europe has longer life expectancy than in the US. They also have lower infant mortality than we do.

They drink more wine. ANd they have no inner city ghetto blacks or Hispanics.

In france 15% of the population are from Africa or Asia.
France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In france 15% of the population are from Africa or Asia.
France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American liberal ghettos are very dangerous and deadly places,, like war zones in terms of numbers dead so not fair to compare to Europe which is by comparison very peaceful.

 

[The Rabbi]

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

You've certainly bought into the Right's arguments.
Why is it that most of Europe has longer life expectancy than in the US. They also have lower infant mortality than we do.

They drink more wine. ANd they have no inner city ghetto blacks or Hispanics.

In france 15% of the population are from Africa or Asia.
France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And? That is meaningless and unresponsive to my post.

 

[Political Junky]

Single Payer could be accomplished very easily and quickly by extending Medicare to everyone. It's already set up and covers a large group of people.

 

[The Rabbi]

Single Payer could be accomplished very easily and quickly by extending Medicare to everyone. It's already set up and covers a large group of people.

Medicare is projected to go bankrupt in a few years. Yeah, sounds like a great idea. Not.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

Oy.
The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare. That's typucally why people do what you do.
Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return? In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices. Profit is a positive in healthcare, as elsewhere, not a negative. Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes. Socialism does the opposite.

The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.
Well then , which stats do you want to use to compare different countries ? WHO ?
It is very easy to disregard stats, but then you should provide a better source.
Other sources point towards the same direction.
Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare.
Indeed. I've never said the opposite. A Beetle is far cheaper than a BMW, but hey , if the Beetle suits your needs ..

Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return?
Those were different alternatives. In community owned hospitals you would get a return AND if the hospital charges you sky high prices you also get a return .

In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices.
No , not really

Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes.
Indeed , but you need profit AND competition , and current insurance schemes damp competition.

The correct metric has been supplied. If you get sick in America your ability to get seen early is greater and your health outcome is greater. This is a fact.

So the fact that you go to Mexico, like many others, is not proof the US system delivers worse care, which is what you contended. Point refuted.
Your point about communty hospitals is incoherent. If the purpose of them is to reduce medical costs then you've already admitted it wont do that.
Medicare dictates payments, private insurance negotiates payments. Thus the difference. In any case you are citing payments for medical services, not medical insurance premiums. Surely you know the difference.

The correct metric has been supplied. If you get sick in America your ability to get seen early is greater and your health outcome is greater. This is a fact.
Well , post the link.
If you are refering to Andylusion's post , then that is not valid. It's 25 years old.

So the fact that you go to Mexico, like many others, is not proof the US system delivers worse care, which is what you contended. Point refuted.
No point proven or disproven. Cecile stated :
Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I simply gave an answer.

Your point about communty hospitals is incoherent. If the purpose of them is to reduce medical costs then you've already admitted it wont do that.
No , it is not. If the hospitals get a profit, you as an owner get a profit.
If the hospital gets no profit you get no profit , but you get healthcare at the lowest price available.

Medicare dictates payments, private insurance negotiates payments. Thus the difference. In any case you are citing payments for medical services, not medical insurance premiums. Surely you know the difference

The post was unrelated to medicare, I was simply giving ideas for the available options. There are many more. For example in Japan the patient covers only 30% of the cost , the government pays the rest. Then you have to do some shopping.

Yes, Japan. And now that they control healthcare, they can also control you:

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions
By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: June 13, 2008

AMAGASAKI, Japan — Japan, a country not known for its overweight people, has undertaken one of the most ambitious campaigns ever by a nation to slim down its citizenry.

Summoned by the city of Amagasaki one recent morning, Minoru Nogiri, 45, a flower shop owner, found himself lining up to have his waistline measured. With no visible paunch, he seemed to run little risk of being classified as overweight, or metabo, the preferred word in Japan these days.

But because the new state-prescribed limit for male waistlines is a strict 33.5 inches, he had anxiously measured himself at home a couple of days earlier. “I’m on the border,” he said.

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?_r=0

I don't know if I'd be that thrilled with Mrs. Obama coming out to measure my waist line.