Sanders: Universal Healthcare and Free College Aren’t Radical Ideas, They Are ‘Human Rights’

[CultureCitizen]

ike I said.... regulations drive out competition inherently, and those states with more regulations, had higher costs.

What was the cost of your insurance policy in 2009?

Maryland has the lowest insurance and healthcare costs in the US. They are regulated.

I've been lucky enough not to have the need for any medical procedure. But all of the people I know who have been in a hospital don't do any shopping at all. They just pick the most famous hospital covered by the insurance.
If you wan't to keep it private you need a mechanism which increases competition.

All states regulate insurance companies. SO that's a fail point.
I do agree we need actual price competition. If you look at procedures that are not covered typically, like breast implants, Lasik and the like, those costs have gone down over the last 15 years, even as quality has gone up. Because people are spending their own money.

Fair enough, and that's my point : you either find a way to create actual competition between hospitals
OR
have some sort of public healthcare system.
The problem is you can't have it both ways, and I find it annoying that so many people can't figure out that insurance companies don't encourage competition.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I find it annoying that so many people can't figure out that insurance companies don't encourage competition.

100% stupid of course conservatives have always wanted capitalist health care and liberals have always wanted crony socialism with no competition.

Its almost inconceivable that even you don't know that. Are you a child??

Capitalism would reduced price by 80% and extend our lives by 10-20 years.

 

[jasonnfree]

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

Actually it's not the insurance companies doing it. It's government.

Inherently, when you regulate an industry, you remove the ability to compete. Obama Care increased regulations, which removed the ability of insurance companies to compete. As a result, the market is predictably thinning.

Come on Andy, this is a situation that started in the mid 80's.
It was already a problem when Clinton became president, it continued to be a problem through all of Bush's presidency.
What does Obama have to do with that ?

Yes , Obama might have something to do with the problem but it is clear that this situation predates his presidency and can not be the cause.

What Obama did was micromanage the insurance companies.

First he forced them to take on any and all preexisting condition patients with no increase in premium charges, then he forced the insurance companies to spend 80% of their income on medical payments alone. This from a guy that hasn't even run a hot dog stand.

Insurance companies know best how to spend their money--not the President. Their business model is to invest your premium money so the profits can help offset some of the medical costs. They can't do this any longer. Plus they set aside money for insurance fraud investigations which helps the company save big money. Again, they had to cut into that as well.

So now insurance companies have to try and stay alive with a business model from a complete failure. Of course we are going to see many get out of the business or fold.

According to what I read in the link below, the health insurers haven't been doing too badly since Obamacare.

Heath insurers are stock market darlings thanks to Obamacare

 

[jasonnfree]

I find it annoying that so many people can't figure out that insurance companies don't encourage competition.

100% stupid of course conservatives have always wanted capitalist health care and liberals have always wanted crony socialism with no competition.

Its almost inconceivable that even you don't know that. Are you a child??

Capitalism would reduced price by 80% and extend our lives by 10-20 years.

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

 

[CultureCitizen]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems

Tell me, have you read how the ranking system was done? Do you know what methods they used?

Answer: No you do not. If you did, you would be wise enough not to cite it, because it's crap.

Interesting link ,

Even the OECD admits, that when you take into account trama deaths, such as auto fatalities and murder, we have the highest life expectancy in the world.

Our health care has the highest survival rates in the world.

Interesting chart, but, I will have to inform you that your charts are kind of dated ( 1980 to 1999).
Assuming they made an average with the dates that would make them 25 years old ( that' like trying to compare today's healthcare costs with those from 25 years ago ).

There is a similar metric : life expectancy after 65 and healthy life expectancy after 65

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docser...est&checksum=15B18CD3E48C926DBD94C123991D53F6
This data is only 4 years old.
United states ( 20.7 women, 17.8 men) that is still below the OCED average and far from the front runners :
France ( 23.8 women, 19.3 women ) and Japan ( 23.7 , 18.7)

It is a pity the document only covers the healthy years for European countries. Norway is at the top of the list.
I find amazing that people ther live on average to the age of 80 and still healthy.

 

[Vigilante]

At least, unlike the Hildebeast, he didn't kill anyone....that we know of!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

 

[Political Junky]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

 

[Cecilie1200]

How many "human rights" can progressives invent ?

Well, as I think I've said, they define "human right" as "anything I happen to want at the moment". So . . .

 

[Cecilie1200]

Capitalism couldn't survive without government as it's partner. Who do you think all those lobbyists in D.C. represent, the poor and the downtrodden?

shows how totally 100% stupid a liberal is. 80% of the federal budget goes to the poor, SS, Medicare, Medicaid. The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes!!

Medicare goes to elderly who paid
into it for many years, not necessarily poor.
Do you have a link?

Yeah, whether they want it or not. Let's not forget that, unless you have the money to pay for medical expenses out of pocket, you're forced onto Medicare when you qualify, will you or nill you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

U.S. Uncut ^ | September 27, 2015 | Hugh Wharton
This interview is amazing.As the Bernie Sanders campaign surges, the socialist senator continues to bring the national conversation back from the right after 30 years of bellicose class war rhetoric. In the clip below, he shames those (including Jeb Bush) who would cut taxes for the rich while stripping Social Security. Sanders states clearly that every other industrialized country invests in their own citizens and children and it’s high time that we followed suit. While Sanders is heavily-criticized for identifying as a democratic socialist, he embraces the label. Sanders says countries that abide by the principles of democratic socialism, like...

If Bernie's iq reaches 50 he should sell.

Nothing is free Bernie.

Roads are not free.

Why do you pay for them.

Um, because we have no choice. Taxes are taken, whether we like it or not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

U.S. Uncut ^ | September 27, 2015 | Hugh Wharton
This interview is amazing.As the Bernie Sanders campaign surges, the socialist senator continues to bring the national conversation back from the right after 30 years of bellicose class war rhetoric. In the clip below, he shames those (including Jeb Bush) who would cut taxes for the rich while stripping Social Security. Sanders states clearly that every other industrialized country invests in their own citizens and children and it’s high time that we followed suit. While Sanders is heavily-criticized for identifying as a democratic socialist, he embraces the label. Sanders says countries that abide by the principles of democratic socialism, like...

If Bernie's iq reaches 50 he should sell.

Nothing is free Bernie.

Roads are not free.

Why do you pay for them.

Lol why do liberals hate cars but love roads?

Bernie is saying free this free that. But it's not free. Americans pay for things the government promises.

Well, what he means by "free" is "my voters won't have to pay for it."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bernie Sanders is like a college professor I once had, didn't agree with anything he said but still found him a lovable old so and so...

That being said, I'd be the first one to volunteer to organize a mission to rescue old Bernie from the 1960's.

I'm sure he's a very nice old geezer. However, we're not electing someone to have over for Sunday dinner, so that's fairly irrelevant.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

You might want to investigate the difference between "expensive" and "spending". See, expensive is how much each procedure costs. Spending, on the other hand, is how much is spent in total on anything healthcare-related. This includes all the non-essential spending on things like Lasik, hearing aids, cosmetic surgery, frequent diagnostics by hypochondriacs, orthodontia, vitamins . . .

Part of the reason that the US spends so much on health care every year is because we can. We are a wealthy nation, with people who are more than willing to use their discretionary funds to improve their quality of life. That's not a bad thing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems

How many times do you have to be told that a study that ranks health systems by how socialized they are is of no interest to anyone?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Bernie is correct.

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

 

[The Rabbi]

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

Oy.
The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.
You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare. That's typucally why people do what you do.
Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return? In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices. Profit is a positive in healthcare, as elsewhere, not a negative. Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes. Socialism does the opposite.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

Most of our northern border hospitals are loaded with Canadian patients. They come here to get help they can't get in Canada. Last I read (which was some time ago) Canada spends over a billion dollars a year in the US to take care of citizens they can't care for.

As a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic, I can tell you that when you walk into the place, you're the one that feels like a foreigner. It's like going to the UN.

My sister is a long time employee at the clinic. She can tell you stories of VIP's from all over the world that come here for our outstanding care and technology. They don't go to Mexico and they don't go to Cuba. We have some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

She told us of stories where a middle-east VIP's would rent an entire hospital floor. It's closed off to everybody due to security reasons. Whatever services the clinic provided, they would pay cash daily. They used to have a scheduled Brink's truck come in every day to transfer the funds.

Socialized medical care is great for a broken arm, the flu, X-rays and so forth. But in situations that are life and death, you don't want to be treated in a country with socialized medicine.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. It is 2 times more expensive on a per capita basis than that of Sweeden or U.K developed country.So yea, Bernie is actually right.

We have the best health care system in the world. That's why it's the most expensive.

We spend more money on preventative care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

We have the most availability of care. Which is why it's the most expensive.

If all you care about is cutting cost, we can do the same as all those other countries. Cut preventative care. Cut availability. Cut quality. The cost will go down.

Problem solved. Of course more people will die. But.... it'll be cheaper.

Best health care system in the world. Nope,
It might be the best for some very specialized procedures, but not for general medicine required by the 99% of the population.

We spend more money on preventive care.
??? WTF? If it was so the US would have the highest life expenctancy in the world. It doesn't.
Just look at the chart and how the US costs started to take-off after the 80's.

The general increase in cost is in part due to better procedures and an aging population, but going as far as telling it is two times better than Sweeden's makes no sense.

Insurance companies are damping competition. People don't do medical shopping ( unless they are uninsured or live abroad). You either make healthcare a public service or take insurance companies out of the equation.

And you're basing this assertion on what?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies? You think the government is going to set up a separate department to handle that, and that it would be cheaper and more efficient if they did? Hell no. They'd be more likely to farm it out to some private entity who specialized in that field. And then there'd be no competition at all to bring down prices.

And you're basing this assertion on what?
Which assertion ? That healthcare in the US is not the best in the world ? Just look at the OCED stats.
That insurance dampens competition ? Well, just tell me how many insured people you know before or after obamacare did medical shopping ?

Hey, if you think another country will provide you with better-quality healthcare, head on over there. None of us will stop you.
I do have one such arrangement. I go south to get medical attention ( which is not very often), just as nearly 90,000 US retirees do.
Mexico's health care lures Americans - USATODAY.com

People aren't allowed by law to "shop around" for medical insurance. The regulations on medical insurance were ridiculous even before Obamacare.
I am talking about shopping for medical attention not for medical insurance.
One of the few points I do like about Obamacera is that insurance must cover pre-existing conditions.

Who, precisely, do you think is going to manage healthcare payment other than health insurance companies?
If insurances worked as a "saving account" people would do medical shopping, and that would encourage competition.
Of course it is not as easy as that, what about someone who gets cancer at an early age? In that case the government should step in and pay part of the fee ( never all the fee, because it would discourage competition ).

Another alternative would be to have community owned hospitals ( gather , 10,000 people to invest in a hospital and make them the owners ). That way you take out the middle man out of the way.

Oy.
The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare. That's typucally why people do what you do.
Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return? In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices. Profit is a positive in healthcare, as elsewhere, not a negative. Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes. Socialism does the opposite.

The OECD stats are misleading and biased. This has been shown over and over again.
Well then , which stats do you want to use to compare different countries ? WHO ?
It is very easy to disregard stats, but then you should provide a better source.
Other sources point towards the same direction.
Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey

You dont get better healthcare in Mexico. You get cheaper healthcare.
Indeed. I've never said the opposite. A Beetle is far cheaper than a BMW, but hey , if the Beetle suits your needs ..

Why would people invest in hospitals without getting any kind of return?
Those were different alternatives. In community owned hospitals you would get a return AND if the hospital charges you sky high prices you also get a return .

In any case, every example of "non-profit" medical insurance/medical care has failed to deliver lower prices.
No , not really

Profit drives lower costs and better outcomes.
Indeed , but you need profit AND competition , and current insurance schemes damp competition.