Sad

[RetiredGySgt]

Depression is no game. Clinical depression does not "just go away" and what is real sad is medications can help about 80 percent of the people that are clinically depressed.

People do not get it. Depression is hard to grasp for people that haven't ever suffered from it.It is not their fault , but people need to understand a clinically depressed person can not just "shake it off". Some people can handle it and some people can not, and the longer it lasts the weaker the resistance gets when depressed people refuse medical treatment.

Logic doesn't work, even reality does not help. No matter how many good things you have in your life, if your depressed enough you can NOT SEE THEM. Death begins to look like the only way to stop suffering. You think it has to stop and you can not always understand the consequences of your choices. Those left behind blame themselves and feel betrayed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/ap_on_re_us/obit_van_meter

Depressed people a lot of times do not want medication and won't take it as prescribed because they do not want to depend on medication, they think they are weak if they use meds or a host of excuses for not taking it or quiting it after it begins to work.

Add to that it is a guessing game which med works for each person and it can take years to find the right medication and the right dose for a chronicly depressed person.

 

[eots]

SHOULD
NEUROLEPTIC DRUGS
BE BANNED?
by
http://www.larsmartensson.com/should.htm

HOUSE BILL 826-FN

AN ACT establishing a limited moratorium on the use of psychotropic drugs and requiring the attorney general to study the use of such drugs.

SPONSORS: Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 13; Rep. Crane, Hills 59; Rep. Gilman, Graf 9; Rep. Kennedy, Merr 34; Rep. McElroy, Hills 61

COMMITTEE: Health, Human Services and Elderly Affairs


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HB0826.html

 

[Diuretic]

When I hear someone talking or writing about how depressed people should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" I swear I want to punch them out. But I don't (well, not yet anyway). If I'm conversing with them I ask them how much they know about brain function. Usually they have no bloody idea. I was lucky enough to take a couple of years undergrad study in physiological psychology (some years ago and it was a minor) and I appreciate that depression is caused by the old electro-chemical machine in our skulls being less than efficient.

It is not a choice! People do NOT choose to become depressed. As a former sufferer (and still inclined to it now and again) I can tell you that depression isn't about feeling a bit down, it is far, far worse than that. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Drugs can help some people, they won't help all. Cognitive behavioural therapy is a big help but you have to be in a state to be able to use it and you have to have a very good therapist working with you.

Simplistic notions are useless and scientologists can get stuffed, your views are like pieces of dog poo on the soles of my boot.

This site - www.beyondblue.org.au - was a huge help for me some time ago when I needed to know what was happening to me. I recommend it for those who may want to find out about depressive illnesses.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

SHOULD
NEUROLEPTIC DRUGS
BE BANNED?
by
http://www.larsmartensson.com/should.htm

HOUSE BILL 826-FN

AN ACT establishing a limited moratorium on the use of psychotropic drugs and requiring the attorney general to study the use of such drugs.

SPONSORS: Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 13; Rep. Crane, Hills 59; Rep. Gilman, Graf 9; Rep. Kennedy, Merr 34; Rep. McElroy, Hills 61

COMMITTEE: Health, Human Services and Elderly Affairs


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HB0826.html

You are part of the problem. I have first hand PERSONAL experience with clinical severe chronic depression. With out medication it is nearly impossible to function. With medication I can carry on a semi normal life. I can not work nor can I handle stress any more, something that was stock in trade for my profession, and I was damn good at it.

It took 9 YEARS of being in and out of the hospital, of trying drug after drug and procedure after procedure to finally find 3 medications ( thats right 3) that in the right dosage lets me almost pretend I can get through a day without wanting to blow my brains out.

Before we found the right medications there were days were I could not move, I had to lay in a ball in my bed, because if I moved I would have killed myself. There were months were I hid in my room and only left when it was absolutely necassary.

I was in the hospital 2 or 3 times a year every year because eventually I would get to the point where I could not be sure I would not in fact kill myself. So even though I want to be dead, I have a responsibility to my family and I would force myself to go to the Hospital. I would force myself to lay in bed and not move, I would hide in my room for months on end.

For me it NEVER goes away, ever. The medications make it so I can handle the thoughts and make it so I can carry on a semi normal life. When we found the right drugs it was like night and day. It was like climbing out of a deep endless hole. Though I still want to be dead, I now have the strength and ability to function through those thoughts and to operate even with them.

I have some kind of chemical problem in my brain and ONLY medication helps control it to a level I can function.

Ohh I talk to a therapist EVERY week and see a doctor once a month and they help a little.

People without a clue PISS me off. If you have no personal experience with depression, clinical depression do NOT even try and talk about it. Your IGNORANT and some of you are willfully IGNORANT.

I am aware that the profession has expanded past what it probably should. It is a crutch now a days for anybody and every body to be sent to a shrink. And I believe children and misdiagnosed a lot. Not because doctors don't care or are stupid but because they care to much. They are to ready to say normal childhood behavior is abnormal.

BUT they are right in some of those cases. THERE ARE children and adults that HAVE to HAVE medication to function. So which is better? Allowing that percentage of kids that would kill themselves or destroy their lives or kill others by not prescribing any medication? Or giving some kids meds they probably do not need?

GET A DAMN CLUE.

 

[Gunny]

When I hear someone talking or writing about how depressed people should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" I swear I want to punch them out. But I don't (well, not yet anyway). If I'm conversing with them I ask them how much they know about brain function. Usually they have no bloody idea. I was lucky enough to take a couple of years undergrad study in physiological psychology (some years ago and it was a minor) and I appreciate that depression is caused by the old electro-chemical machine in our skulls being less than efficient.

It is not a choice! People do NOT choose to become depressed. As a former sufferer (and still inclined to it now and again) I can tell you that depression isn't about feeling a bit down, it is far, far worse than that. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Drugs can help some people, they won't help all. Cognitive behavioural therapy is a big help but you have to be in a state to be able to use it and you have to have a very good therapist working with you.

Simplistic notions are useless and scientologists can get stuffed, your views are like pieces of dog poo on the soles of my boot.

This site - www.beyondblue.org.au - was a huge help for me some time ago when I needed to know what was happening to me. I recommend it for those who may want to find out about depressive illnesses.

Whether or not people choose to be depressed is irrelevant to the fact that some CAN "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," while some cannot.

Is it your contention that you begin treatement with the strongest drug available and work your way down the ladder to just enough to control?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Whether or not people choose to be depressed is irrelevant to the fact that some CAN "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," while some cannot.

Is it your contention that you begin treatement with the strongest drug available and work your way down the ladder to just enough to control?

Each situation is different. A reasonably competent doctor and or therapist is going to start not with drugs but with tests and discussion. They are going to rate their needed efforts on how the Individual is doing, what condition they are in and how they are functioning.

If your in the hospital strapped to a bed because you can't keep from killing others or yourself, then ya you probably start with some damn strong drugs.

If a doctor or therapist flat out refuses to consider medication they are not competent. If a doctor ONLY prescribes medication, then they too are not competent.

After 90 days in the Hospital I was on some medication, but when I first went in I was not on any. For 2 years I either took no medication or would quit taking what was prescribed. For the next couple years as I got worse I still had trouble complying with my medications. Partly because they barely worked and partly because HELL I was a damn Marine I was to strong to need meds after all.

In the Hospital at Camp Lejeune after 15 and a half years in the Marine Corps and having made GySgt, the Captain that was treating me told me flat out she had no idea how I ever made it through Boot Camp, much less 15 plus years and 6 promotions. The only reason I did not blow my brains out the day I broke was because a couple weeks before a MSgt I knew and respected had the courage to ask me to take HIM to the Hospital for depression and suicidal thoughts. I am not sure I could have done it with out him having shown me it was ok. And to tell ya the truth I wish a lot of times I had just killed myself.

I am one STUBBORN asshole. And that is the only reason I am still around. Duty and Responsibility are ingrained in me. Quiting by suicide would violate those things. And THAT gave me the strength to not do what it is I want to do. And now the medication helps me not dwell on those thoughts to exclusion.

But damn dead would solve all kind of problems for me.

In the end I am a coward. Unable to kill myself because of excuses like duty and responsibility and unable to function in the world because I am so mentally weak.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Whether or not people choose to be depressed is irrelevant to the fact that some CAN "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," while some cannot.

Is it your contention that you begin treatement with the strongest drug available and work your way down the ladder to just enough to control?

When it is a medical condition, an imbalance of receptors or chemicals in your brain, one can not just "shake it off" . One may be able to function through the depression for a time, maybe even years, but eventually they will lose that fight.

 

[Annie]

Each situation is different. A reasonably competent doctor and or therapist is going to start not with drugs but with tests and discussion. They are going to rate their needed efforts on how the Individual is doing, what condition they are in and how they are functioning.

If your in the hospital strapped to a bed because you can't keep from killing others or yourself, then ya you probably start with some damn strong drugs.

If a doctor or therapist flat out refuses to consider medication they are not competent. If a doctor ONLY prescribes medication, then they too are not competent.

After 90 days in the Hospital I was on some medication, but when I first went in I was not on any. For 2 years I either took no medication or would quit taking what was prescribed. For the next couple years as I got worse I still had trouble complying with my medications. Partly because they barely worked and partly because HELL I was a damn Marine I was to strong to need meds after all.

In the Hospital at Camp Lejeune after 15 and a half years in the Marine Corps and having made GySgt, the Captain that was treating me told me flat out she had no idea how I ever made it through Boot Camp, much less 15 plus years and 6 promotions. The only reason I did not blow my brains out the day I broke was because a couple weeks before a MSgt I knew and respected had the courage to ask me to take HIM to the Hospital for depression and suicidal thoughts. I am not sure I could have done it with out him having shown me it was ok. And to tell ya the truth I wish a lot of times I had just killed myself.

I am one STUBBORN asshole. And that is the only reason I am still around. Duty and Responsibility are ingrained in me. Quiting by suicide would violate those things. And THAT gave me the strength to not do what it is I want to do. And now the medication helps me not dwell on those thoughts to exclusion.

But damn dead would solve all kind of problems for me.

In the end I am a coward. Unable to kill myself because of excuses like duty and responsibility and unable to function in the world because I am so mentally weak.

I think you are very brave. Serious depression, which is what it seems you suffer from is a hell hole. If it takes 3 or 5 or 15 drugs to help, let's thank God he gave man the ability to come up with the combinations.

On the other hand, there are those that find drugs an escape, whether through self-medicating or scripts. Some of those may be able to 'pull themselves together' on their own.

 

[eots]

http://www.etfrc.com/ChemicalImbalances.htm

There Are No "Chemical Imbalances"



Today’s patients, discontented, unhappy, fragmented and confused by an increasingly frantic, alienating and violent society, come to psychiatrists for help, only to have their illusions shored up by an increased dose of a technologic fix. They are told they have illnesses that are biologic and can be fixed, instead of being allowed to speak about their unhappiness, to speak about how difficult it is to be a human being, to speak about their suffering, because human beings have always suffered and always will. To believe that we can conquer depression, despair, anxiety with modern technology is the height of hubris and bad faith, a mere childish fantasy, unworthy of any thoughtful person who has their eyes open to human history and modern culture."

– David Kaiser, M.D.
Northwestern University Hospital, Chicago, IL
Psychiatric Medications as Symptoms, February, 1997


"No biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder in spite of decades of research. ... Don't accept the myth that we can make an 'accurate diagnosis.' ... Neither should you believe that your problems are due solely to a 'chemical imbalance.'"

– Edward Drummond, M.D.
Associate Medical Director
Seacoast Mental Health Center, Portsmouth, NH

 

[eots]

Each situation is different. A reasonably competent doctor and or therapist is going to start not with drugs but with tests and discussion. They are going to rate their needed efforts on how the Individual is doing, what condition they are in and how they are functioning.

If your in the hospital strapped to a bed because you can't keep from killing others or yourself, then ya you probably start with some damn strong drugs.

If a doctor or therapist flat out refuses to consider medication they are not competent. If a doctor ONLY prescribes medication, then they too are not competent.

After 90 days in the Hospital I was on some medication, but when I first went in I was not on any. For 2 years I either took no medication or would quit taking what was prescribed. For the next couple years as I got worse I still had trouble complying with my medications. Partly because they barely worked and partly because HELL I was a damn Marine I was to strong to need meds after all.

In the Hospital at Camp Lejeune after 15 and a half years in the Marine Corps and having made GySgt, the Captain that was treating me told me flat out she had no idea how I ever made it through Boot Camp, much less 15 plus years and 6 promotions. The only reason I did not blow my brains out the day I broke was because a couple weeks before a MSgt I knew and respected had the courage to ask me to take HIM to the Hospital for depression and suicidal thoughts. I am not sure I could have done it with out him having shown me it was ok. And to tell ya the truth I wish a lot of times I had just killed myself.

I am one STUBBORN asshole. And that is the only reason I am still around. Duty and Responsibility are ingrained in me. Quiting by suicide would violate those things. And THAT gave me the strength to not do what it is I want to do. And now the medication helps me not dwell on those thoughts to exclusion.

But damn dead would solve all kind of problems for me.

In the end I am a coward. Unable to kill myself because of excuses like duty and responsibility and unable to function in the world because I am so mentally weak.

snap out of it bud..you taking all the fun out this..I need you dude...your my Nemesis.. the coyote to my roadrunner...this to will pass..you will be back to your belligerent self righteous self in no time.. and we will never speak of this incident again....no worries mate..peace ,love and God bless Americia

 

[Diuretic]

Whether or not people choose to be depressed is irrelevant to the fact that some CAN "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," while some cannot.

Is it your contention that you begin treatement with the strongest drug available and work your way down the ladder to just enough to control?

My point is simple. Cut the judgemental bullshit. Let the sufferer and the therapist/medical practitioner work on it.

 

[Psychoblues]

'Zactly, doc.

My point is simple. Cut the judgemental bullshit. Let the sufferer and the therapist/medical practitioner work on it.

These armchair therapists have never helped anyone yet as far as I can see, don't 'cha know?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

http://www.etfrc.com/ChemicalImbalances.htm

There Are No "Chemical Imbalances"



Today’s patients, discontented, unhappy, fragmented and confused by an increasingly frantic, alienating and violent society, come to psychiatrists for help, only to have their illusions shored up by an increased dose of a technologic fix. They are told they have illnesses that are biologic and can be fixed, instead of being allowed to speak about their unhappiness, to speak about how difficult it is to be a human being, to speak about their suffering, because human beings have always suffered and always will. To believe that we can conquer depression, despair, anxiety with modern technology is the height of hubris and bad faith, a mere childish fantasy, unworthy of any thoughtful person who has their eyes open to human history and modern culture."

– David Kaiser, M.D.
Northwestern University Hospital, Chicago, IL
Psychiatric Medications as Symptoms, February, 1997


"No biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder in spite of decades of research. ... Don't accept the myth that we can make an 'accurate diagnosis.' ... Neither should you believe that your problems are due solely to a 'chemical imbalance.'"

– Edward Drummond, M.D.
Associate Medical Director
Seacoast Mental Health Center, Portsmouth, NH

Look RETARD. I know for a fact medication is needed. It is a medical fact you dumb ass. I know with out medication for my whole life and especial the 9 years after my break no amount of talking and reasoning and soul searching helped. Medication works on most people that need it.

Some medication did little to nothing for me. Some worked for a while. But in April 2004 we finally found the right combination. It is like night and day. You are an IGNORANT ASS on this issue. You do not know what your talking about.

If I do not take my medications for several days ( takes about a week for the meds to completely leave your system, some only last a day some longer) I am right back in that hole, that no amount of talking ever dented, ever fixed.

And I do not just take medication, I see a doctor EVERY Monday to talk. And I see the shrink once a Month as well and I will for the rest of my life most likely.

Claiming meds are a crutch is IGNORANT. That they have no medical usefulness , that there are not chemical imbalances or receptor problems in some peoples brains.

YOU HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE. There are people that need medication. That medication is the only long term help for them.

 

[eots]

Look RETARD. I know for a fact medication is needed. It is a medical fact you dumb ass. I know with out medication for my whole life and especial the 9 years after my break no amount of talking and reasoning and soul searching helped. Medication works on most people that need it.

Some medication did little to nothing for me. Some worked for a while. But in April 2004 we finally found the right combination. It is like night and day. You are an IGNORANT ASS on this issue. You do not know what your talking about.

If I do not take my medications for several days ( takes about a week for the meds to completely leave your system, some only last a day some longer) I am right back in that hole, that no amount of talking ever dented, ever fixed.

And I do not just take medication, I see a doctor EVERY Monday to talk. And I see the shrink once a Month as well and I will for the rest of my life most likely.

Claiming meds are a crutch is IGNORANT. That they have no medical usefulness , that there are not chemical imbalances or receptor problems in some peoples brains.
beep beep
YOU HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE. There are people that need medication. That medication is the only long term help for them.

beep..beep..atta boy SGT..GIVE EM HELL..

 

[Psychoblues]

The rgs is representative of our military veterans in far more need than their service provided for them, eots. It really is SAD.

beep..beep..atta boy SGT..GIVE EM HELL..

Even then, it is difficult for me to understand why these disabled souls tend to vote for and support a party that constantly diminishes and ignores their plights, cuts their benefits and denies their problems. Did you know that gwb signed into legislation cutting veterans benefits the same day as he proclaimed "Mission Accomplished"?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The rgs is representative of our military veterans in far more need than their service provided for them, eots. It really is SAD.




Even then, it is difficult for me to understand why these disabled souls tend to vote for and support a party that constantly diminishes and ignores their plights, cuts their benefits and denies their problems. Did you know that gwb signed into legislation cutting veterans benefits the same day as he proclaimed "Mission Accomplished"?

That is a lie. Benefits have increased EVERY year under Bush and under the republicans in Congress.

 

[Psychoblues]

Keep puffing up your disability pillow, rgs. gwb cut the VA budget on the day he proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" and I stand by that. The Democrats have always done better for our veterans than any self serving and otherwise coward Republican. Don't confuse your COLA (cost of living allowance) with anything gwb would have preferred.

That is a lie. Benefits have increased EVERY year under Bush and under the republicans in Congress.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Keep puffing up your disability pillow, rgs. gwb cut the VA budget on the day he proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" and I stand by that. The Democrats have always done better for our veterans than any self serving and otherwise coward Republican. Don't confuse your COLA (cost of living allowance) with anything gwb would have preferred.

Your a bald faced liar. Bush has NEVER cut benefits. Go ahead provide proof. Ohh and when you trot out that he did not approve as big an INCREASE as the democrats wanted I will have to get out the baby book to explain to you that an increase is, well, always an increase, even if someone else wanted a bigger increase.

 

[Psychoblues]

Well, heres just one example of his generosity towards our veterans:

Veterans Benefits Cut
by David Smith




The U.S. House of Representatives approved billions of dollars in cuts to veterans' programs over the next 10 years—on the same day it unani-mously passed a resolution of “unequivocal support” for the nation's troops overseas. Proposed by President Bush as part of his 2004 budget plan, the reductions—estimated at $28 billion—would erode health-care benefits already stretched by other budget shortfalls, raise costs, and decrease veterans' access to medical care.

Voicing the dismay of representatives opposed to the measure, who narrowly lost the 215-212 vote in the Republican-controlled House, Rep. Joseph Hoeffel (D-PA) said, “These cuts to veterans' programs are indefensible. We are at war and our current troops will be our future veterans and this funding is inadequate, it's wrong, and it's an insult.”

Republican congressmen claim that Veterans Affairs spending will actually increase, but Democratic lawmakers say that would be true only if one ignores rising health care costs. According to Ashley Decker, writing in an article at Commondreams.org, the cuts could cause approximately half of all veterans to lose their only source of medical care and might prevent them from receiving their disability pensions. VA hospitals treated 4.2 million veterans in 2001, and 70 million Americans are potentially eligible for VA benefits.

The VA reductions were one of the ways that President Bush hopes to pay for his proposed $726 billion 10-year tax cut. This is the first time that any modern president has called for a decrease in taxes during wartime. A recent Associated Press poll found that 61 percent of Americans—including 56 percent of Republicans—thinks tax cuts should be delayed in the face of growing deficits and the cost of war in Iraq.

The House was thinking similarly when it recently trimmed Bush's tax cuts to $550 billion. In an unusual setback for a president at war, the Senate voted to cap the tax breaks at $350 billion.

Bush's budget proposal contained cuts in funding for other social ser-vices, including education, state funding, poverty relief, public housing, and law enforcement.

Although the plan raises overall education spending, 47 programs would be dropped, and funding is insufficient to support the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, which President Bush signed into law last year. Among the cuts is a $400 million decrease in before- and after-school programs that would affect 500,000 children, despite a report produced for the national organization Fight Crime: Invest in Kids that estimates the cuts would result in 41,000 crimes and cost taxpayers $2.4 billion.

Further stretching law-enforcement resources, the Bush budget proposal would slash funding for the Community Oriented Policing Services program, credited with reducing crime nationwide, from $1.4 billion to $164 million—a cut of 88 percent.
—David Smith

More: http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?id=613

How's that for starters, you bald faced liar.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, heres just one example of his generosity towards our veterans:

Veterans Benefits Cut
by David Smith




The U.S. House of Representatives approved billions of dollars in cuts to veterans' programs over the next 10 years—on the same day it unani-mously passed a resolution of “unequivocal support” for the nation's troops overseas. Proposed by President Bush as part of his 2004 budget plan, the reductions—estimated at $28 billion—would erode health-care benefits already stretched by other budget shortfalls, raise costs, and decrease veterans' access to medical care.

Voicing the dismay of representatives opposed to the measure, who narrowly lost the 215-212 vote in the Republican-controlled House, Rep. Joseph Hoeffel (D-PA) said, “These cuts to veterans' programs are indefensible. We are at war and our current troops will be our future veterans and this funding is inadequate, it's wrong, and it's an insult.”

Republican congressmen claim that Veterans Affairs spending will actually increase, but Democratic lawmakers say that would be true only if one ignores rising health care costs. According to Ashley Decker, writing in an article at Commondreams.org, the cuts could cause approximately half of all veterans to lose their only source of medical care and might prevent them from receiving their disability pensions. VA hospitals treated 4.2 million veterans in 2001, and 70 million Americans are potentially eligible for VA benefits.

The VA reductions were one of the ways that President Bush hopes to pay for his proposed $726 billion 10-year tax cut. This is the first time that any modern president has called for a decrease in taxes during wartime. A recent Associated Press poll found that 61 percent of Americans—including 56 percent of Republicans—thinks tax cuts should be delayed in the face of growing deficits and the cost of war in Iraq.

The House was thinking similarly when it recently trimmed Bush's tax cuts to $550 billion. In an unusual setback for a president at war, the Senate voted to cap the tax breaks at $350 billion.

Bush's budget proposal contained cuts in funding for other social ser-vices, including education, state funding, poverty relief, public housing, and law enforcement.

Although the plan raises overall education spending, 47 programs would be dropped, and funding is insufficient to support the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, which President Bush signed into law last year. Among the cuts is a $400 million decrease in before- and after-school programs that would affect 500,000 children, despite a report produced for the national organization Fight Crime: Invest in Kids that estimates the cuts would result in 41,000 crimes and cost taxpayers $2.4 billion.

Further stretching law-enforcement resources, the Bush budget proposal would slash funding for the Community Oriented Policing Services program, credited with reducing crime nationwide, from $1.4 billion to $164 million—a cut of 88 percent.
—David Smith

More: http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?id=613

How's that for starters, you bald faced liar.

Ohh look, an increase that you think you can call a cut. Just as I expected.