What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Russian Pundits. Or Dumb and Dumber on display

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
3,410
Points
325
Russian Pundits celebrating the Russian strength and victories which seem to be taking place closer to Russian Territory all the time are furious with the West. Now they are calling on Putin to destroy Great Britain.


Now this mental giant apparently is so informed that he missed the briefing on British retaliatory power. Specifically four Vanguard class submarines.

Now the Pundit seems to think that if you hit fast enough you can cripple British responses. But you really can’t.


If BBC Radio 4 goes off the air for a few days. Some reports say three. Others say four. Then Submarine Commanders are instructed to open their letters of instructions.

Nobody knows what those instructions might be. Ally with the USA? Perhaps it is to launch everything at Russia. Perhaps it is to surrender. Ok. The last is doubtful.

So three or four days later ballistic missiles with multiple warheads will be raining nuclear hell on Russia. From four different submarines. Figure a hundred warheads per submarine. It’s probably more.

So are you really sure you want to ride that train? Because getting on it is easy. Getting off is a lot harder.
 

fncceo

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
36,078
Reaction score
26,049
Points
2,915
If BBC Radio 4 goes off the air for a few days. Some reports say three. Others say four. Then Submarine Commanders are instructed to open their letters of instructions.

That's not how submarine command and control works.
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,059
Reaction score
1,452
Points
208
Location
Over there
 

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,059
Reaction score
1,452
Points
208
Location
Over there
 
OP
SavannahMann

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
3,410
Points
325
That's not how submarine command and control works.

It is all I can find on the British system. What do you have?
 

gipper

Libertarian/Anarchist
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
49,598
Reaction score
20,341
Points
2,290
Russian Pundits celebrating the Russian strength and victories which seem to be taking place closer to Russian Territory all the time are furious with the West. Now they are calling on Putin to destroy Great Britain.


Now this mental giant apparently is so informed that he missed the briefing on British retaliatory power. Specifically four Vanguard class submarines.

Now the Pundit seems to think that if you hit fast enough you can cripple British responses. But you really can’t.


If BBC Radio 4 goes off the air for a few days. Some reports say three. Others say four. Then Submarine Commanders are instructed to open their letters of instructions.

Nobody knows what those instructions might be. Ally with the USA? Perhaps it is to launch everything at Russia. Perhaps it is to surrender. Ok. The last is doubtful.

So three or four days later ballistic missiles with multiple warheads will be raining nuclear hell on Russia. From four different submarines. Figure a hundred warheads per submarine. It’s probably more.

So are you really sure you want to ride that train? Because getting on it is easy. Getting off is a lot harder.
It seems idiots on both sides believe the use of nuclear weapons is a possibility.


The U.S. Should Show It Can Win a Nuclear War​

Washington might study Cold War-era practices that had a major effect on Soviet policy making.​

Opinion | The U.S. Should Show It Can Win a Nuclear War

By
Seth Cropsey
April 27, 2022 1:08 pm ET
 
OP
SavannahMann

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
3,410
Points
325

Ringo

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2021
Messages
4,059
Reaction score
1,452
Points
208
Location
Over there
 

fncceo

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
36,078
Reaction score
26,049
Points
2,915
It is all I can find on the British system. What do you have?

RN missile submarines are in constant receive only communication even when submerged via ELF radio (transmitter in Glengarry Scotland). Emergency Action Weapons Release Messages are broadcast in code over this link and, if authenticated, they contain targeting data for selected targets.

Submarines cannot monitor TV VHF broadcasts at sea, even if not submerged so they can't be used for C&C.


If an alert sub loses comms for over 10 mins, they are required to send an emergency burst HF message to report loss of comms.
 
OP
SavannahMann

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
3,410
Points
325
RN missile submarines are in constant receive only communication even when submerged via ELF radio (transmitter in Glengarry Scotland). Emergency Action Weapons Release Messages are broadcast in code over this link and, if authenticated, they contain targeting data for selected targets.

Submarines cannot monitor TV VHF broadcasts at sea, even if not submerged so they can't be used for C&C.


If an alert sub loses comms for over 10 mins, they are required to send an emergency burst HF message to report loss of comms.

The BBC 4 is a last guard. If the attack is a surprise and the C and C is unable to send a message the Submarine becomes useless. There is always a doomsday plan. Otherwise the Nuclear war could be won with strategic attacks on Command and Control elements.
 

fncceo

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
36,078
Reaction score
26,049
Points
2,915
The BBC 4 is a last guard.

It isn't. As I said, subs at sea can't guard TV signals at sea, even if they aren't submerged.

ELF and HF military systems are hundreds of times more survivable than TV signals. Only an idiot would believe they are the last thing the could ever go off the air.
 
OP
SavannahMann

SavannahMann

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
9,191
Reaction score
3,410
Points
325
It isn't. As I said, subs at sea can't guard TV signals at sea, even if they aren't submerged.

ELF and HF military systems are hundreds of times more survivable than TV signals. Only an idiot would believe they are the last thing the could ever go off the air.

First. It isn’t TV. It is the literal radio channel. Second. They broadcast in Long Wave and Medium Wave as well as FM bands.


  • LW 198 Long Wave
  • MW Medium Wave is only available in some locations: London 720; Plymouth 774; Hayle (Cornwall) 756; Newcastle 603; Carlisle 1495; Aberdeen 1449; Enniskillen 774; Derry 720; Glasgow 720
Long Wave can be received a thousand miles away from the transmitter.


And all they have to do is stick the antenna up for a couple minutes to insure the radio station is broadcasting. If they lose communications with base. If they get no reply. They would check for BBC 4. If they don’t get that back within a few days they open the envelopes and follow instructions.

That is the purpose of submarines. The second strike scenario.


Without a doomsday policy and procedure. The Submarines can be rendered moot by destroying communication facilities. According to your ideas. The Submarines would never launch. And they would just surface off shore and head in with the missiles intact. That is idiotic. The entire reason we and everyone else builds the things is a second strike capability that prevents a surprise attack that takes out command and control.

Even if the Russians wiped out American command and control before we could send orders to the Submarines. There has to be a procedure to follow. Otherwise the Ballistic Missile Submarines are just expensive yachts with no real purpose.
 

postman

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
12,904
Reaction score
4,604
Points
345
RN missile submarines are in constant receive only communication even when submerged via ELF radio (transmitter in Glengarry Scotland). Emergency Action Weapons Release Messages are broadcast in code over this link and, if authenticated, they contain targeting data for selected targets.

According to Wikipedia, England doesn't have ELF, but instead has VLF broadcasting, which doesn't penetrate to the same depth as ELF.


Only a few countries operate VLF facilities for communicating with their submarines: Norway, United States, Russia, United Kingdom, Germany, Australia, Pakistan, and India.

Owing to the technical difficulty of building an ELF transmitter, the U.S., China, Russia, and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities.
 

postman

Gold Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2017
Messages
12,904
Reaction score
4,604
Points
345
If an alert sub loses comms for over 10 mins, they are required to send an emergency burst HF message to report loss of comms.

That seems stupid. Russia knows if they take out the VLF antenna in England (even if by clandestine special forces knocking out the transmitter) that within 10 minutes the submarines will reveal their location.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$240.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top