Russian provocation, lets see what Obama does if Russia moves

[Katzndogz]

The difference is the Poles, Danes or any other country invaded by Germany didn't consider themselves German. Half the Ukraine feels they are Russian. Half wants to be aligned with Russia, the other half with the EU. We really have no interest in that fight. obama has no business telling another country what to do.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

They will get their wish, Katz. After the Russians invade the US their plans are to take Europe. Owning the monopoly on natural gas in Europe will certainly give the Russians an advantage. Especially if it is winter.

 

[Moonglow]

Armed men seize government building in Ukraine's Crimea-Interfax

Russia claims to be worried about Crimea. By supporting Russian separatists that seize the Buildings, if the Ukraine reacts as expected with force, the Russians can claim they must act to protect Russians.

We will see what Obama and Kerry do now. They both warned Russia not to violate the Ukraine's territory.

Probably the same when Tsarist Russia lost power, a war. With the West's troops in one section, pro-Russian troops in another and a third front by the revolutionaries..

 

[Moonglow]

The difference is the Poles, Danes or any other country invaded by Germany didn't consider themselves German. Half the Ukraine feels they are Russian. Half wants to be aligned with Russia, the other half with the EU. We really have no interest in that fight. obama has no business telling another country what to do.

Poles didn't feel German? Even though the Prussian city of Danzig was German when Hitler invaded...

 

[BlindBoo]

It wasn't our business when Germany seized Rhineland, it wasn't our business when Germany seized Austria, it wasn't our business when Germany seized the Czechs, it wasn't our Business when Germany attacked Poland, Great Britain and France, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece,it wasn't our business when Germany attacked the Soviet Union.

Remind me what happened next?

If Russia seizes Ukraine and we do not acted they WILL seize other nations as well. Exactly when does it become our business?

FDR made it our business(along with Germany's ally Japan), and not withstanding the isolationist doing everything they could to keep us out of the War.

I predict TP and GOP opposition to whatever decision the President makes if something happens.

And I predict that whatever Obama does will be wrong, stupid, laughable, unwise, and fail to achieve any legitimate American objective.

I understand that's how you feel.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Russia won't move. But if they do, I doubt Obama will fabricate WMD information so that he can invade a country.

Your right... Obama will do nothing

-Geaux

I disagree.
Obama will wag his finger scoldingly and declare he "means it" and he will draw a red line for Russian behavior. When the RUssians cross that red line he will declare someone else must have done that.
The most incompetent president in history faces probably the most competent Russian leader since Peter the Great. The world will be laughing at us for years.

I find no similarities between Putin and Peter the Great unless Peter became a wife beating philanderer who stole billions from legitimate businessmen because he didn't come from money - didn't know how to earn it himself.

 

[The Rabbi]

FDR made it our business(along with Germany's ally Japan), and not withstanding the isolationist doing everything they could to keep us out of the War.

I predict TP and GOP opposition to whatever decision the President makes if something happens.

And I predict that whatever Obama does will be wrong, stupid, laughable, unwise, and fail to achieve any legitimate American objective.

I understand that's how you feel.

But do you understand it is not a feeling? It is based on his past decisions, every one wrong, without exception. This will be no different.

 

[BlindBoo]

And I predict that whatever Obama does will be wrong, stupid, laughable, unwise, and fail to achieve any legitimate American objective.

I understand that's how you feel.

But do you understand it is not a feeling? It is based on his past decisions, every one wrong, without exception. This will be no different.

That too is subjective, and is unequivocally your feeling.

 

[MisterBeale]

The choice is clear

Obama should either invade Russia or work on his healthcare system

No question which is more important

Or he could bring Russia down by working on Russia's healthcare system. . .

 

[Two Thumbs]

The only thing we should do is stop sending russia money.

if need be, attempt diplomacy and aid any refugees.

war, if and only if, the Ukrainians ask for help.


but really, it's not our fucking business

It wasn't our business when Germany seized Rhineland, it wasn't our business when Germany seized Austria, it wasn't our business when Germany seized the Czechs, it wasn't our Business when Germany attacked Poland, Great Britain and France, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece,it wasn't our business when Germany attacked the Soviet Union.

Remind me what happened next?

If Russia seizes Ukraine and we do not acted they WILL seize other nations as well. Exactly when does it become our business?

if we had stayed out of WW1 there would not have been a WW2.

so lets stay out and avoid WW3, mmkay?

 

[Two Thumbs]

The only thing we should do is stop sending russia money.

if need be, attempt diplomacy and aid any refugees.

war, if and only if, the Ukrainians ask for help.


but really, it's not our fucking business

It wasn't our business when Germany seized Rhineland, it wasn't our business when Germany seized Austria, it wasn't our business when Germany seized the Czechs, it wasn't our Business when Germany attacked Poland, Great Britain and France, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece,it wasn't our business when Germany attacked the Soviet Union.

Remind me what happened next?

If Russia seizes Ukraine and we do not acted they WILL seize other nations as well. Exactly when does it become our business?

FDR made it our business(along with Germany's ally Japan), and not withstanding the isolationist doing everything they could to keep us out of the War.

I predict TP and GOP opposition to whatever decision the President makes if something happens.

How many Americans died in fdr war of choice?

 

[MisterBeale]

What the western media doesn't want you to know, is that the folks that have taken over in the Ukraine are. . . basically. . . . well. . . . Nazi's.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Inu_-0dcSU]Right Sector. The Great Ukrainian Reconquista - YouTube[/ame]

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/

Right Sector is a shadowy syndicate of self-described “autonomous nationalists” identified by their skinhead style of dress, ascetic lifestyle, and fascination with street violence. Armed with riot shields and clubs, the group’s cadres have manned the front lines of the Euromaidan battles this month, filling the air with their signature chant: “Ukraine above all!” In a recent Right Sector propaganda video [embedded at the bottom of this article], the group promised to fight “against degeneration and totalitarian liberalism, for traditional national morality and family values.” With Svoboda linked to a constellation of international neo-fascist parties through the Alliance of European National Movements, Right Sector is promising to lead its army of aimless, disillusioned young men on “a great European Reconquest.”

http://www.timothyeastman.com/uncategorized/an-interview-with-mira-andrei-and-sascha-of-antifascist-action-ukraine/

S: Nazi groups are also trying to mimic leftists, to try to ingratiate themselves. They use anarchist vocabulary, words like “autonomous.” One group of the ugliest Nazis is now doing this by calling themselves “Autonomous Resistance.” They’ve had lots of success with this tactic.
They attract some Anarchists who think they’re changing the Nazis, but really the Nazis are changing them.” They’re becoming more nationalistic, they have more more anti-feminist views, etc. Now is when Anarchists need to speak out and be louder.

Two symbols that could be found at EuroMaidan. The Celtic Cross (l) is a common symbol representing white supremacy. The Wolfsangel (r) was a symbol used by several divisions of the SS during World War II and now represents Neo-Nazism.

S: There’s a whole spectrum of Nationalists represented. They divide themselves into groups with their own symbols. They want support so they don’t use Nazi or fascist symbols so much. They use symbols that are recognizable to other fascistic people, but look innocuous to anyone else. For example there is a special eagle symbol. It’s drawn a certain way, it doesn’t look like anything unless you know the meaning.
No one has any idea how this could turn out, what form a new government could take. The fascist groups don’t have common aims, they know what they’re opposed to, and that they’re opposed to each other, but they don’t all want the same things. If Pravy has positions in a new government that would be really dangerous but that isn’t possible, they aren’t powerful enough.

 

[bianco]

Obama should stay right out of Russia v Ukraine.

Let China, Indonesia, NK, India, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Malaysia, Jordan etc go fight Russia.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It wasn't our business when Germany seized Rhineland, it wasn't our business when Germany seized Austria, it wasn't our business when Germany seized the Czechs, it wasn't our Business when Germany attacked Poland, Great Britain and France, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece,it wasn't our business when Germany attacked the Soviet Union.

Remind me what happened next?

If Russia seizes Ukraine and we do not acted they WILL seize other nations as well. Exactly when does it become our business?

FDR made it our business(along with Germany's ally Japan), and not withstanding the isolationist doing everything they could to keep us out of the War.

I predict TP and GOP opposition to whatever decision the President makes if something happens.

How many Americans died in fdr war of choice?

War of choice? WW2 was a war of choice? What fantasy world do you live in? Japan attacked us and Germany declared war. You are beyond stupid.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And it begins just as I said it would.

Ukraine's interior minister condemns seizure of Crimea airports

Who wants to bet Obama does not do anything?

Ohh and Mods why is a thread about Obama and his actions, in Europe?

 

[MisterBeale]

And it begins just as I said it would.

Ukraine's interior minister condemns seizure of Crimea airports

Who wants to bet Obama does not do anything?

Ohh and Mods why is a thread about Obama and his actions, in Europe?

You know why they put it in the European forum. . . .

1) obviously because it belongs here, and people only view stuff in the politics sub-forum, clean debate sub-forum, and current events,

and . . .

2) It is put here in order to mothball it so people around here won't think about it or talk about it. Naw. . . We're supposed to be talking about the gays, aren't we?


As far as Obama doing nothing? I don't think it will be that simple. If you had bothered to read that article I posted, you would find that the State department is behind supporting the Nazis that have forced their way into generally subverting a Democratically elected government.

Why would the US government do this? So that the Russians would feel they need to exert their influence in their own back yard. This makes them use up their own political capital, possibly giving the US cover for its own intended future plans for Syria? It's amazing how quickly aid operations can turn into security operations.

Did you pay attention to the vote on Syria in the UN over the Weekend? I found how China and Russia voted very interesting, didn't you?

 

[The Rabbi]

I understand that's how you feel.

But do you understand it is not a feeling? It is based on his past decisions, every one wrong, without exception. This will be no different.

That too is subjective, and is unequivocally your feeling.

Neither of those is true. The truth is that Obama has fucked up virtually every area of foreign policy, wasting any credibility America has.
He will do the same here. Wait for him to refer the matter to the U.N.

 

[Trajan]

The only thing we should do is stop sending russia money.

if need be, attempt diplomacy and aid any refugees.

war, if and only if, the Ukrainians ask for help.


but really, it's not our fucking business

It wasn't our business when Germany seized Rhineland, it wasn't our business when Germany seized Austria, it wasn't our business when Germany seized the Czechs, it wasn't our Business when Germany attacked Poland, Great Britain and France, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Norway, Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg, It wasn't our business when Germany attacked Yugoslavia and Greece,it wasn't our business when Germany attacked the Soviet Union.

Remind me what happened next?

If Russia seizes Ukraine and we do not acted they WILL seize other nations as well. Exactly when does it become our business?

all that is true but I am not sure that analogy holds up here....this is not an Anschluss, not yet

The Ukraine has always been seen and practically a satellite ( 'governate' since Peter the Great) of 'Russia' proper. It was built out as a naval base by Catherine the Great and Kruschev 'gave' the areas in dispute now to Ukraine in the mid 50's as a 'gift'.

The eastern and southern areas now the focus of interest were heavily industrialized in the eastern movement of Russian ( Stalinist) arms factories etc. era during the nazi invasion and due to the subsequent energy revolution in Russia, pipeline nexus's etc., this area is more Russo centric than the western portions of Ukraine.

Russia, and Putin since his accession has been paying a rental fee ( and has continued to invest heavily in the Crimea-Sevastapol) to Ukraine for its continued use since the break up of the USSR, they have a vested historical interest in the Crimea. And i the end, IF thje people living there want to be 'Russian', their claim is as equitable(?) as those in Kiev who want to be 'Ukrainian'.... Looking at this dispassionately, they want to secure Sevastopol and I don't blame them.

 

[Kondor3]

Anybody up fer downsizing the US Army back to pre-WWII conditions?

 

[Kondor3]

NATO has been stiff-arming the Ukraine re: membership for some years now.

I'm guessing that the NATO folks had such a scenario in mind when they held their arms stiff like that.

That, and not wanting to over-excite the Russians, and trigger an Anschluss before the Ukrainians could be integrated into the European defense shield.