Russian bomber shot down by Patriot system

[theHawk]

Aren't you guys the ones defending Trump wanting to attack Iran, while General Milley was trying to stop it?

You're a bunch of confused clowns, not knowing what the hell to believe because Trump changes his mind every day.

President Trump never wanted to attack Iran.

Even when they shot rockets into Iraq, the military wanted to go to war. President Trump didn’t go for it. I seem to remember the lefties here screaming about how he didn’t do enough to retaliate.

 

[Desperado]

I think we are finding that out now. If a country like Ukraine can stall them for over a year just think what a real NATO country could have done.

The Ukraine would be history now if it were not for the USA.
We have extend the war and depleted our own military inventory/

 

[Flash]

The Ukraine would be history now if it were not for the USA.
We have extend the war and depleted our own military inventory/

Most of the war supplies we have given them are old stock.

 

[Synthaholic]

President Trump never wanted to attack Iran.

Uhh...yeah, he did. He thought it would be a boost to his re-election.

 

[toomuchtime_]

President Trump never wanted to attack Iran.

Even when they shot rockets into Iraq, the military wanted to go to war. President Trump didn’t go for it. I seem to remember the lefties here screaming about how he didn’t do enough to retaliate.

He did attack Iran. He assassinated Soleimani, but when Iran retaliated by firing rockets at US soldiers in Iraq, injuring many of them, Trump failed to respond.

 

[theHawk]

Uhh...yeah, he did. He thought it would be a boost to his re-election.

Yea sure. You all kept telling us he wanted to start all kinds of wars. He was going to start one with North Korea, Syria, Iran. Yet he started no wars and never pushed for any war with any of them.

Now, let’s see you back up this claim and show us when, where, and how President Trump wanted and tried to start a war with Iran?

 

[theHawk]

He did attack Iran. He assassinated Soleimani, but when Iran retaliated by firing rockets at US soldiers in Iraq, injuring many of them, Trump failed to respond.

Yes, he turned their terrorist general into a puddle. Iran got angry and shot some missiles. Did we go to war after that or not?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, he turned their terrorist general into a puddle. Iran got angry and shot some missiles. Did we go to war after that or not?

We did not go to war. Trump just ignored rockets raining down of US soldiers in Iraq and did nothing.

 

[theHawk]

We did not go to war. Trump just ignored rockets raining down of US soldiers in Iraq and did nothing.

Yet you are claiming he wanted to go to war?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yet you are claiming he wanted to go to war?

I never claimed that, but when he ignored US soldiers being bombed by Iran, I did believe he should have taken action to force Iran to stop, or if he didn't have the courage to do that, he should not have provoked Iran in the first place. While he was bragging about the assassination, he abandoned US soldiers in Iraq to Iran's rocket attacks.

 

[theHawk]

I never claimed that, but when he ignored US soldiers being bombed by Iran, I did believe he should have taken action to force Iran to stop, or if he didn't have the courage to do that, he should not have provoked Iran in the first place. While he was bragging about the assassination, he abandoned US soldiers in Iraq to Iran's rocket attacks.

He didn’t abandon anyone. A few soldiers had minor injuries. He knew any more escalation would lead to a war. He played it cool, and was correct. Iran was throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yea sure. You all kept telling us he wanted to start all kinds of wars. He was going to start one with North Korea, Syria, Iran. Yet he started no wars and never pushed for any war with any of them.

Now, let’s see you back up this claim and show us when, where, and how President Trump wanted and tried to start a war with Iran?

You fucking imbecile.

“You’re Gonna Have a Fucking War”: Mark Milley’s Fight to Stop Trump from Striking Iran
Inside the extraordinary final-days conflict between the former President and his chairman of the Joint Chiefs

The last time that General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke with President Donald Trump was on January 3, 2021. The subject of the Sunday-afternoon meeting, at the White House, was Iran’s nuclear program. For the past several months, Milley had been engaged in an alarmed effort to insure that Trump did not embark on a military conflict with Iran as part of his quixotic campaign to overturn the results of the 2020 election and remain in power. The chairman secretly feared that Trump would insist on launching a strike on Iranian interests that could set off a full-blown war.

There were two “nightmare scenarios,” Milley told associates, for the period after the November 3rd election, which resulted in Trump’s defeat but not his concession: one was that Trump would try “to use the military on the streets of America to prevent the legitimate, peaceful transfer of power.” The other was an external crisis involving Iran. It was not public at the time, but Milley believed that the nation had come close—“very close”—to conflict with the Islamic Republic. This dangerous post-election period, Milley said, was all because of Trump’s “Hitler”-like embrace of the “Big Lie” that the election had been stolen from him; Milley feared it was Trump’s “Reichstag moment,” in which, like Adolf Hitler in 1933, he would manufacture a crisis in order to swoop in and rescue the nation from it..

 

[toomuchtime_]

He didn’t abandon anyone. A few soldiers had minor injuries. He knew any more escalation would lead to a war. He played it cool, and was correct. Iran was throwing a temper tantrum.

It's not cool to make no provisions to make no effort to protect US soldiers after putting in harm's way and its not cool to have made no provisions to protect them before the assassination. Trump got the bragging rights for killing Solemeini and apparently couldn't have cared less about what happened to US troops as a consequence of his poor planning.

 

[para bellum]

It's not cool to make no provisions to make no effort to protect US soldiers after putting in harm's way and its not cool to have made no provisions to protect them before the assassination. Trump got the bragging rights for killing Solemeini and apparently couldn't have cared less about what happened to US troops as a consequence of his poor planning.

It really pisses me off to have Trump in these Ukraine threads, but were you there? Are you aware that at least one of the bases had warning and moved most of the aircraft and personnel into the desert before the attack?

Trump didn't "provoke" Iran. Sulemani was responsible for providing EFPIED's to Mookie Sadr, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of US servicemen in Iraq. He got exactly what was coming to him.

The assassination took place in Iraq, after Sulemani had provided rockets to Shia militias in Iraq, which were used to attack Iraqi bases.

Trump at the time said his "red line" was any Americans killed. Iran had already said publicly that they would respond, and we knew it was coming. No Americans were killed, but a lot of guys suffered concussions.

The signalling from both sides was that if we both stood down after Iran had their "retribution", it would be allowed to blow over. And that's what happened. Trump, as you say, did not escalate, and Khamenei was able to show the Iranian public that he couldn't be pushed around by The Great Satan.

And that was the end of it. Iran didn't mess with Trump after that.

 

[theHawk]

The chairman secretly feared

^^ LMAO

Milley “secretly feared” President Trump would start a war in the last days of his Presidency.
Zero proof to back this up.







,


Because we should believe this guy with raging TDS:


.

 

[theHawk]

It's not cool to make no provisions to make no effort to protect US soldiers after putting in harm's way and its not cool to have made no provisions to protect them before the assassination. Trump got the bragging rights for killing Solemeini and apparently couldn't have cared less about what happened to US troops as a consequence of his poor planning.

So you wanted him to start a war with Iran at that point?
That would “protect” our soldiers?

 

[toomuchtime_]

It really pisses me off to have Trump in these Ukraine threads, but were you there? Are you aware that at least one of the bases had warning and moved most of the aircraft and personnel into the desert before the attack?

Trump didn't "provoke" Iran. Sulemani was responsible for providing EFPIED's to Mookie Sadr, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of US servicemen in Iraq. He got exactly what was coming to him.

The assassination took place in Iraq, after Sulemani had provided rockets to Shia militias in Iraq, which were used to attack Iraqi bases.

Trump at the time said his "red line" was any Americans killed. Iran had already said publicly that they would respond, and we knew it was coming. No Americans were killed, but a lot of guys suffered concussions.

The signalling from both sides was that if we both stood down after Iran had their "retribution", it would be allowed to blow over. And that's what happened. Trump, as you say, did not escalate, and Khamenei was able to show the Iranian public that he couldn't be pushed around by The Great Satan.

And that was the end of it. Iran didn't mess with Trump after that.

I remember it very well, and I thought it was spectacular at the time, but upon reflection, I wonder what the thinking was at the WH right before the order was given. Was Trump thinking, "This is great, and Iran won't dare retaliate because they're afraid of what I might do if they attack us in response to this" or was he thinking, "This is great and I'm willing to put the lives of Americans in the region at risk of being killed in an Iranian retaliatory strike"? It had to be one or the other.

Taking out Sulemani made America, and Trump, look strong and dangerous, but allowing Iran to try to kill Americans in response made America, and Trump, look weak and indecisive.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So you wanted him to start a war with Iran at that point?
That would “protect” our soldiers?

No, but the question is, if Trump knew assassinating Sulemani would put the lives of Americans in the region at risk, should he have approved the assassination at all? After all, this was not part of a greater military strategy but just a one-off event which did not hold the promise of changing the course of events in the region, so was Trump just chasing headlines without being concerned about the welfare of Americans in the region?

 

[para bellum]

Was Trump thinking, "This is great, and Iran won't dare retaliate because they're afraid of what I might do if they attack us in response to this" or was he thinking, "This is great and I'm willing to put the lives of Americans in the region at risk of being killed in an Iranian retaliatory strike"? It had to be one or the other.

I think your options are a little simplistic. Sulemani had been a thorn in our side for 15 years. He was one of our "most wanted" enemies. Trump had a rare opportunity to take him out when he was outside of Iran- it was not a US strike on Iranian territory, not a violation of Iranian sovereignty.

It was a targeted assassination. It's not like his predecessors hadn't done the same thing on more than one occasion.

It was a violation of Iraqi sovereignty, but whatever the Iraqi response would be, he knew it would be muted. He was right about that- there was some squawking from some MP's, but not much.

Whatever the Iranian response would be, it would come after a bunch of protesting and threats and bluster, and he could deal with it depending on how far they wanted to push it.

So Trump being Trump, he didn't hesitate- he took the opportunity to hit an enemy of the US that we had wanted for a long time. He wasn't interested in going to war with Iran, but neither was he afraid of them- their ability to strike us is nothing compared to our ability to strike them.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think your options are a little simplistic. Sulemani had been a thorn in our side for 15 years. He was one of our "most wanted" enemies. Trump had a rare opportunity to take him out when he was outside of Iran- it was not a US strike on Iranian territory, not a violation of Iranian sovereignty.

It was a targeted assassination. It's not like his predecessors hadn't done the same thing on more than one occasion.

It was a violation of Iraqi sovereignty, but whatever the Iraqi response would be, he knew it would be muted. He was right about that- there was some squawking from some MP's, but not much.

Whatever the Iranian response would be, it would come after a bunch of protesting and threats and bluster, and he could deal with it depending on how far they wanted to push it.

So Trump being Trump, he didn't hesitate- he took the opportunity to hit an enemy of the US that we had wanted for a long time. He wasn't interested in going to war with Iran, but neither was he afraid of them- their ability to strike us is nothing compared to our ability to strike them.

That's the headline but read the rest of the story. Taking him out, although emotionally satisfying, did nothing to change the course of events in the region, but it did put Americans in the region at risk, and while the assassination itself made America, and Trump, look strong and decisive, the failure to respond to attacks on our troops made America, and Trump, look weak and indecisive.

Again, what was Trump thinking when he ordered the attack? Was he thinking Iran would be too afraid of him to retaliate or was he thinking he was willing to put the lives of Americans in the region at risk to take Soleimani out?