Roosevelt, Stalin and The Elusive "Second Front"

[Moonglow]

A few years after WW II many nations from E. Germany to N. Korea, 100s of millions of people, were subject to mass-murdering Communist dictators. FDR deserves a lot of the blame.

For example FDR empowered this man: Harry Dexter White

Quote:

• White was the real author of the Morgenthau plan to "turn Germany into a potato field," which when leaked, united non-Nazis with Nazis, stiffened resistance, and prolonged the war.

• White used his position in the Treasury Department to develop a hostile U.S. policy toward Japan. The reason was to distract Japan from their plans to attack the Soviet Union and draw the U.S. into the war as an ally with the Soviet Union. White was the author of an extreme ultimatum that Japan could not comply with in the days just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

• White delayed financial support mandated by law to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese government causing the triumph of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese government.

• White was instrumental in handing over the Allied Military mark printing plates to the Soviets. This caused a $250,000,000 deficit in the occupational government budget paid out by the U.S. Treasury. This in effect amounted to the US taxpayer paying the salaries of Soviet occupation troops at a time when US/Soviet relations were deteriorating precisely because of the presence and behavior of Soviet occupation forces in Eastern Europe.

As the civil war gained strength from 1947 to 1949, eventual Communist victory seemed more and more likely. Although the Communists did not hold any major cities after World War II, they had strong grassroots support, superior military organization and morale, and large stocks of weapons seized from Japanese supplies in Manchuria. Years of corruption and mismanagement had eroded popular support for the Nationalist Government. Early in 1947, the ROC Government was already looking to the island province of Taiwan, off the coast of Fujian Province, as a potential point of retreat. Although officials in the Truman Administration were not convinced of the strategic importance to the United States of maintaining relations with Nationalist China, no one in the U.S. Government wanted to be charged with facilitating the “loss” of China to communism. Military and financial aid to the floundering Nationalists continued, though not at the level that Chiang Kai-shek would have liked. In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland.

The Chinese Revolution of 1949 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Please articulate a point so that I can eviscerate it.

Your shoe is untied,...

 

[PoliticalChic]

A few years after WW II many nations from E. Germany to N. Korea, 100s of millions of people, were subject to mass-murdering Communist dictators. FDR deserves a lot of the blame.

For example FDR empowered this man: Harry Dexter White

Quote:

• White was the real author of the Morgenthau plan to "turn Germany into a potato field," which when leaked, united non-Nazis with Nazis, stiffened resistance, and prolonged the war.

• White used his position in the Treasury Department to develop a hostile U.S. policy toward Japan. The reason was to distract Japan from their plans to attack the Soviet Union and draw the U.S. into the war as an ally with the Soviet Union. White was the author of an extreme ultimatum that Japan could not comply with in the days just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

• White delayed financial support mandated by law to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese government causing the triumph of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese government.

• White was instrumental in handing over the Allied Military mark printing plates to the Soviets. This caused a $250,000,000 deficit in the occupational government budget paid out by the U.S. Treasury. This in effect amounted to the US taxpayer paying the salaries of Soviet occupation troops at a time when US/Soviet relations were deteriorating precisely because of the presence and behavior of Soviet occupation forces in Eastern Europe.

As the civil war gained strength from 1947 to 1949, eventual Communist victory seemed more and more likely. Although the Communists did not hold any major cities after World War II, they had strong grassroots support, superior military organization and morale, and large stocks of weapons seized from Japanese supplies in Manchuria. Years of corruption and mismanagement had eroded popular support for the Nationalist Government. Early in 1947, the ROC Government was already looking to the island province of Taiwan, off the coast of Fujian Province, as a potential point of retreat. Although officials in the Truman Administration were not convinced of the strategic importance to the United States of maintaining relations with Nationalist China, no one in the U.S. Government wanted to be charged with facilitating the “loss” of China to communism. Military and financial aid to the floundering Nationalists continued, though not at the level that Chiang Kai-shek would have liked. In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland.

The Chinese Revolution of 1949 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Please articulate a point so that I can eviscerate it.

Your shoe is untied,...

I can see that the strain of actually making a coherent point is stultifying for you....so let me help.

I assume that you were trying to find a way to mitigate the harm that Harry Dexter White and all the other Soviet spies that Franklin Roosevelt invited into his administration, accomplished.

In that, you'd be sadly mistaken.


Not only was White a spy, but he used his position to block the Chinese nationalists when he could and handed China to the communists.

Harry Truman, at least until he learned better, supported Stalin, White, and the communists ensconced in the Roosevelt administration.


I dare you to challenge the veracity of this post.
In fact, I double dog dare you.

 

[Moonglow]

A few years after WW II many nations from E. Germany to N. Korea, 100s of millions of people, were subject to mass-murdering Communist dictators. FDR deserves a lot of the blame.

For example FDR empowered this man: Harry Dexter White

Quote:

• White was the real author of the Morgenthau plan to "turn Germany into a potato field," which when leaked, united non-Nazis with Nazis, stiffened resistance, and prolonged the war.

• White used his position in the Treasury Department to develop a hostile U.S. policy toward Japan. The reason was to distract Japan from their plans to attack the Soviet Union and draw the U.S. into the war as an ally with the Soviet Union. White was the author of an extreme ultimatum that Japan could not comply with in the days just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

• White delayed financial support mandated by law to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese government causing the triumph of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese government.

• White was instrumental in handing over the Allied Military mark printing plates to the Soviets. This caused a $250,000,000 deficit in the occupational government budget paid out by the U.S. Treasury. This in effect amounted to the US taxpayer paying the salaries of Soviet occupation troops at a time when US/Soviet relations were deteriorating precisely because of the presence and behavior of Soviet occupation forces in Eastern Europe.

As the civil war gained strength from 1947 to 1949, eventual Communist victory seemed more and more likely. Although the Communists did not hold any major cities after World War II, they had strong grassroots support, superior military organization and morale, and large stocks of weapons seized from Japanese supplies in Manchuria. Years of corruption and mismanagement had eroded popular support for the Nationalist Government. Early in 1947, the ROC Government was already looking to the island province of Taiwan, off the coast of Fujian Province, as a potential point of retreat. Although officials in the Truman Administration were not convinced of the strategic importance to the United States of maintaining relations with Nationalist China, no one in the U.S. Government wanted to be charged with facilitating the “loss” of China to communism. Military and financial aid to the floundering Nationalists continued, though not at the level that Chiang Kai-shek would have liked. In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland.

The Chinese Revolution of 1949 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Please articulate a point so that I can eviscerate it.

Your shoe is untied,...

I can see that the strain of actually making a coherent point is stultifying for you....so let me help.

I assume that you were trying to find a way to mitigate the harm that Harry Dexter White and all the other Soviet spies that Franklin Roosevelt invited into his administration, accomplished.

In that, you'd be sadly mistaken.


Not only was White a spy, but he used his position to block the Chinese nationalists when he could and handed China to the communists.

Harry Truman, at least until he learned better, supported Stalin, White, and the communists ensconced in the Roosevelt administration.


I dare you to challenge the veracity of this post.
In fact, I double dog dare you.

Well that's a nice way of saying that when you side loses you have to make some excuses for the General......
It was proven after Whites death in 1948 that he was a spy, buy not a spy which subverted any policies...

 

[Moonglow]

And I would like to see Roosevelt's invitation....or did he call them on the phone?

 

[PoliticalChic]

A few years after WW II many nations from E. Germany to N. Korea, 100s of millions of people, were subject to mass-murdering Communist dictators. FDR deserves a lot of the blame.

For example FDR empowered this man: Harry Dexter White

Quote:

• White was the real author of the Morgenthau plan to "turn Germany into a potato field," which when leaked, united non-Nazis with Nazis, stiffened resistance, and prolonged the war.

• White used his position in the Treasury Department to develop a hostile U.S. policy toward Japan. The reason was to distract Japan from their plans to attack the Soviet Union and draw the U.S. into the war as an ally with the Soviet Union. White was the author of an extreme ultimatum that Japan could not comply with in the days just prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

• White delayed financial support mandated by law to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist Chinese government causing the triumph of Mao Tse-Tung's Communist Chinese government.

• White was instrumental in handing over the Allied Military mark printing plates to the Soviets. This caused a $250,000,000 deficit in the occupational government budget paid out by the U.S. Treasury. This in effect amounted to the US taxpayer paying the salaries of Soviet occupation troops at a time when US/Soviet relations were deteriorating precisely because of the presence and behavior of Soviet occupation forces in Eastern Europe.

As the civil war gained strength from 1947 to 1949, eventual Communist victory seemed more and more likely. Although the Communists did not hold any major cities after World War II, they had strong grassroots support, superior military organization and morale, and large stocks of weapons seized from Japanese supplies in Manchuria. Years of corruption and mismanagement had eroded popular support for the Nationalist Government. Early in 1947, the ROC Government was already looking to the island province of Taiwan, off the coast of Fujian Province, as a potential point of retreat. Although officials in the Truman Administration were not convinced of the strategic importance to the United States of maintaining relations with Nationalist China, no one in the U.S. Government wanted to be charged with facilitating the “loss” of China to communism. Military and financial aid to the floundering Nationalists continued, though not at the level that Chiang Kai-shek would have liked. In October of 1949, after a string of military victories, Mao Zedong proclaimed the establishment of the PRC; Chiang and his forces fled to Taiwan to regroup and plan for their efforts to retake the mainland.

The Chinese Revolution of 1949 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Please articulate a point so that I can eviscerate it.

Your shoe is untied,...

I can see that the strain of actually making a coherent point is stultifying for you....so let me help.

I assume that you were trying to find a way to mitigate the harm that Harry Dexter White and all the other Soviet spies that Franklin Roosevelt invited into his administration, accomplished.

In that, you'd be sadly mistaken.


Not only was White a spy, but he used his position to block the Chinese nationalists when he could and handed China to the communists.

Harry Truman, at least until he learned better, supported Stalin, White, and the communists ensconced in the Roosevelt administration.


I dare you to challenge the veracity of this post.
In fact, I double dog dare you.

Well that's a nice way of saying that when you side loses you have to make some excuses for the General......
It was proven after Whites death in 1948 that he was a spy, buy not a spy which subverted any policies...

Absolutely wrong.

I notice you didn't take me up on the challenge...."Well that's a nice way of saying" that you know that White did the damage that I just stated: he handed China to Mao, and that resulted in the Korean War...

It is important to connect the treachery with the impact of that treachery: the theft of the nuclear technology with 36,940 Americans killed, 91,134 wounded, and 8,176 still missing, and this does not include at least two million civilian lives claimed on both sides.
Bruce Cumings, "The Korean War: A History.'

Included were 1.3 million South Korean casualties, including 400,000 dead. North Korea, 2 million casualties, and 900,000 Chinese soldiers killed.

The blame goes to FDR, Harry White and other spies, as well as Stalin.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And I would like to see Roosevelt's invitation....or did he call them on the phone?

The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, Witness, Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia)

And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.


Still afraid to take up my challenge, drop-draws?
You should be.

 

[midcan5]

The public good FDR accomplished is still being fought by the corporatists of the right after eighty odd years. Amazing how hierarchy and corporate power fight the legacy of one man, one administration. We see that today with the same foes fighting the positive accomplishments of President Obama. The public good be damned when power loses to the little guy.

I welcome their hatred FDR US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I welcome their hatred FDR US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[PoliticalChic]

3. Which brings us to the famed"Second Front."
The first front was created by the Nazi attack, "Operation Barbarossa," and the constant demands by Stalin that the Allies open another front to draw off the Germans from Russia.
The unspoken sentiment is that the Germans would defeat the Soviets, and that they desperately needed that 'Second Front.'

What proof of that 'fear' exists? Looking at the great tank battle of Kursk, or a study of Russia's 'three greatest generals, December, January, and February,' certainly don't support same.

No, the truth is that FDR's affections for Stalin and Soviet Communism found it useful to claim that without American support.....the end was near for Uncle Joe,




a. What does history tell us about similar attempts to conquer the Russian bear?

"Napoleon began his invasion 550 miles from Moscow and 420 miles from St. Petersburg. Hitler began his invasion from a similar distance." Why Russia Is Marching mdash and Eastern Europe Is Afraid - theTrumpet.com
How did that turn out for the attackers?



4. But didn't Stalin lose 20 million of his citizens??

Yes....but not to Hitler.

"World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans.Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that only the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army."
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




The Soviet Union, that means Stalin, killed more than twenty million men, women and children.....his own citizens!

Yet Roosevelt never wavered in his support for 'Uncle Joe"....and this began years before WWII.





5. So....what's all this about a dire need for a "Second Front"....and why did Stalin insist it had to be via the northwestern corner of the continent rather than the south, from Italy and the Adriatic?

And why forbid the allies to allow the surrender of Germany, which would have saved countless American lives?

More to the point....why did Roosevelt go along with this?
Starting to see the truth about Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The public good FDR accomplished is still being fought by the corporatists of the right after eighty odd years. Amazing how hierarchy and corporate power fight the legacy of one man, one administration. We see that today with the same foes fighting the positive accomplishments of President Obama. The public good be damned when power loses to the little guy.

I welcome their hatred FDR US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I welcome their hatred FDR US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

"The public good FDR accomplished is still being fought by the corporatists blah blah blah..."

Good little socialist!

But, the thread is very specific, and not about the corporatists....of whom FDR was numero uno!
He proudly copied Mussolini's corporatism.




As you have not said anything about FDR being a dictator in league with other dictators.....Stalin, Hitler, Mussolin....you must be unable to deny same.

So, you have served your purpose.


One more FDR apologist put in his place.

 

[Camp]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

.


You make showing you to be a hack way to easy. I criticized your sourcing as being a method used by conspiracy theorist instead of a historian with academic and scholarly standards. Your method is dishonest and misleading. In any cases that are not purposely dishonest, it is sloppy to say the least.

Lets begin by having you explain one of your sources. I have asked on many, many occasions for you to answer this question. What was Chesly Manly? You use that name and the 1954 book that fueled the Red Scare of the 50's, "The Twenty Year Revolution". It is one of your main sources and a prime example of how you use conspiracy source methods to present your your concepts. So, explain Manly, McCormick and the American Party.

Get past that one and we can move on to how you have bastardized Watson who actually lends support to the prewar and war policies of FDR towards Russia.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

.


You make showing you to be a hack way to easy. I criticized your sourcing as being a method used by conspiracy theorist instead of a historian with academic and scholarly standards. Your method is dishonest and misleading. In any cases that are not purposely dishonest, it is sloppy to say the least.

Lets begin by having you explain one of your sources. I have asked on many, many occasions for you to answer this question. What was Chesly Manly? You use that name and the 1954 book that fueled the Red Scare of the 50's, "The Twenty Year Revolution". It is one of your main sources and a prime example of how you use conspiracy source methods to present your your concepts. So, explain Manly, McCormick and the American Party.

1. Let's take a flight of fancy and pretend you were anything more than a Roosevelt boot-licker.

If so, you might show that a statement wasn't true.
Instead, you pretend that who states the fact is the issue.


2. "....the 1954 book that fueled the Red Scare of the 50's,..."
No, you dunce.....the 'red scare' was fueled by the revelations that communists had been allowed to infiltrate our government and direct the policies of same.

And, by extension.....that Franklin Roosevelt and his lies about Joseph Stalin explain that infiltration.

 

[Camp]

How about if you attempt to refrain from deflecting and answer the question? Explain your source by explaining Chesly Manly, Col. McCormick and the American Party.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How about if you attempt to refrain from deflecting and answer the question? Explain your source by explaining Chesly Manly, Col. McCormick and the American Party.

How about you show any error in the statement.

If you cannot, admit that your sole mission is to shield Roosevelt from the contumely he so correctly deserves.

 

[Moonglow]

3. Which brings us to the famed"Second Front."
The first front was created by the Nazi attack, "Operation Barbarossa," and the constant demands by Stalin that the Allies open another front to draw off the Germans from Russia.
The unspoken sentiment is that the Germans would defeat the Soviets, and that they desperately needed that 'Second Front.'

What proof of that 'fear' exists? Looking at the great tank battle of Kursk, or a study of Russia's 'three greatest generals, December, January, and February,' certainly don't support same.

No, the truth is that FDR's affections for Stalin and Soviet Communism found it useful to claim that without American support.....the end was near for Uncle Joe,




a. What does history tell us about similar attempts to conquer the Russian bear?

"Napoleon began his invasion 550 miles from Moscow and 420 miles from St. Petersburg. Hitler began his invasion from a similar distance." Why Russia Is Marching mdash and Eastern Europe Is Afraid - theTrumpet.com
How did that turn out for the attackers?



4. But didn't Stalin lose 20 million of his citizens??

Yes....but not to Hitler.

"World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans.Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that only the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army."
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




The Soviet Union, that means Stalin, killed more than twenty million men, women and children.....his own citizens!

Yet Roosevelt never wavered in his support for 'Uncle Joe"....and this began years before WWII.





5. So....what's all this about a dire need for a "Second Front"....and why did Stalin insist it had to be via the northwestern corner of the continent rather than the south, from Italy and the Adriatic?

And why forbid the allies to allow the surrender of Germany, which would have saved countless American lives?

More to the point....why did Roosevelt go along with this?
Starting to see the truth about Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

The surrender terms were agreed upon even before the US was at war...

 

[Moonglow]

Did you bitch this much through Russian history on all the sides they were on? Czarist Russia was just as brutal and controlling as the Soviets..They killed countess people of their own and had special progroms for the Jews.....Notice in the history books there is an Ivan the terrible, but not a Stalin the terrible..Ivan must have killed and drove off more than Stalin....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Did you bitch this much through Russian history on all the sides they were on? Czarist Russia was just as brutal and controlling as the Soviets..They killed countess people of their own and had special progroms for the Jews.....Notice in the history books there is an Ivan the terrible, but not a Stalin the terrible..Ivan must have killed and drove off more than Stalin....

1. So you've given up claiming that Harry Dexter White and the Roosevelt administration didn't give China to Mao and the communists?

Good.



2. "Russian history on all the sides they were on? Czarist Russia was just as brutal and controlling as the Soviets."
Horsefeathers!
So much for any claim you might have to knowledge about "Russian history."

You really sound like a dope.

Watch:

a. Before the Russian Revolution, the number of execution by the czarist government came to seventeen (17) per year, according to Solzhenitsyn. He pointed out that, in comparison, the Spanish Inquisition, at its height, destroyed 10 people per month.

b. But, during the revolutionary years 1918-1919, Lenin's Cheka executed, without trial, more than one thousand (1,000) people a month.
At the height of Stalin's terror, 1937-1938, tens of thousands of people were shot per month.
Solzhenitsyn, "Warning To The West."


From Solzhenitsyn's "Warning To The West,"... "Here are the figures: 17 a year, 10 a month, more than 1 ,000 a month, more than 40,000 a month!
Full text of Solzhenitsyn The Voice of Freedom


Ready to admit you know less than nothing?

 

[PoliticalChic]

3. Which brings us to the famed"Second Front."
The first front was created by the Nazi attack, "Operation Barbarossa," and the constant demands by Stalin that the Allies open another front to draw off the Germans from Russia.
The unspoken sentiment is that the Germans would defeat the Soviets, and that they desperately needed that 'Second Front.'

What proof of that 'fear' exists? Looking at the great tank battle of Kursk, or a study of Russia's 'three greatest generals, December, January, and February,' certainly don't support same.

No, the truth is that FDR's affections for Stalin and Soviet Communism found it useful to claim that without American support.....the end was near for Uncle Joe,




a. What does history tell us about similar attempts to conquer the Russian bear?

"Napoleon began his invasion 550 miles from Moscow and 420 miles from St. Petersburg. Hitler began his invasion from a similar distance." Why Russia Is Marching mdash and Eastern Europe Is Afraid - theTrumpet.com
How did that turn out for the attackers?



4. But didn't Stalin lose 20 million of his citizens??

Yes....but not to Hitler.

"World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans.Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat.

More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that only the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army."
"The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.




The Soviet Union, that means Stalin, killed more than twenty million men, women and children.....his own citizens!

Yet Roosevelt never wavered in his support for 'Uncle Joe"....and this began years before WWII.





5. So....what's all this about a dire need for a "Second Front"....and why did Stalin insist it had to be via the northwestern corner of the continent rather than the south, from Italy and the Adriatic?

And why forbid the allies to allow the surrender of Germany, which would have saved countless American lives?

More to the point....why did Roosevelt go along with this?
Starting to see the truth about Franklin Delano Roosevelt?

The surrender terms were agreed upon even before the US was at war...

You simply make stuff up, huh?

1. "The Morgenthau Plan, first proposed by United States Secretary of the TreasuryHenry Morgenthau, Jr. in a memorandum entitled Suggested Post-Surrender Program for Germany, advocated that the Allied occupation ofGermany following World War II include measures to eliminate Germany's ability to wage war by eliminating its armament industry, and the removal or destruction of other key industries basic to military strength. This included the removal or destruction of all industrial plants and equipment in the Ruhr area.

At the Second Quebec Conference on September 16, 1944, U.S.PresidentFranklin D. Rooseveltand Henry Morgenthau, Jr. persuaded the initially very reluctant BritishPrime MinisterWinston Churchill to agree to the plan,..."
Morgenthau Plan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


2. The plan came from Stalin.

Elizabeth Bentley, a former operative of the Soviet underground testified before the Senate subcommittee on August 14, 1951, naming some 80 Soviet spies. Her testimony was summarized in an FBI report, dated November 25, 1945.

Glimpse the methods and purpose of the Soviet operation:

Miss Bentley testified as follows about the Morgenthau plan for Germany:

Senator Eastland: "Did you know who drew that plan?"

Miss Bentlcy: "Due to Mr. [Harry Dexter] White's influence, to push the devastation of Germany, because that was what the Russians wanted."

Senator Ferguson: "That was what the Communists wanted?"

Miss Bentley: "Definitely Moscow wanted them completely razed because then they would be of no help to the allies."

Senator Eastland: "What you say is that it was a Communist plot to destroy Germany and weaken her to where she could not help us?"

Miss Bentley: "That is correct. She could no longer be a barrier to protect the western world."
Manly, 'The Twenty Year Revolution,' p.102-103

 

[JakeStarkey]

Harry White's Creed, which PC hates

"I believe in freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of the press, freedom of criticism, and freedom of movement. I believe in the goal of equality of opportunity, and the right of each individual to follow the calling of his or her own choice, and the right of every individual to have an opportunity to develop his or her capacity to the fullest. . . . I consider these principles sacred. I regard them as the basic fabric of our American way of life, and I believe in them as living realities, and not mere words on paper. This is my creed."

Let's remind all that Harry Dexter White was a Soviet spy, and that you are both a liar and an imbecile.

He was not, I am not, and you are running dog of the far right social con wacko brigades.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

Sounds like you got your ass handed to you on one thread, and now need it handed to you on this thread.

Wiki can be a good source for quick fun facts, but it seems if you were serious about your research, you'd be using other sources.

Now, what's brought on all this fuss about FDR? I think the fuss is all about the wonderful documentary that came out a few months ago, reminding us all of how it takes a Democrat to come in and turn a financial collapse around, not unlike the 2007-08 collapse.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Chinese Revolution of 1949 - 1945 1952 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Please articulate a point so that I can eviscerate it.

Your shoe is untied,...

I can see that the strain of actually making a coherent point is stultifying for you....so let me help.

I assume that you were trying to find a way to mitigate the harm that Harry Dexter White and all the other Soviet spies that Franklin Roosevelt invited into his administration, accomplished.

In that, you'd be sadly mistaken.


Not only was White a spy, but he used his position to block the Chinese nationalists when he could and handed China to the communists.

Harry Truman, at least until he learned better, supported Stalin, White, and the communists ensconced in the Roosevelt administration.


I dare you to challenge the veracity of this post.
In fact, I double dog dare you.

Well that's a nice way of saying that when you side loses you have to make some excuses for the General......
It was proven after Whites death in 1948 that he was a spy, buy not a spy which subverted any policies...

Absolutely wrong.

I notice you didn't take me up on the challenge...."Well that's a nice way of saying" that you know that White did the damage that I just stated: he handed China to Mao, and that resulted in the Korean War...

It is important to connect the treachery with the impact of that treachery: the theft of the nuclear technology with 36,940 Americans killed, 91,134 wounded, and 8,176 still missing, and this does not include at least two million civilian lives claimed on both sides.
Bruce Cumings, "The Korean War: A History.'

Included were 1.3 million South Korean casualties, including 400,000 dead. North Korea, 2 million casualties, and 900,000 Chinese soldiers killed.

The blame goes to FDR, Harry White and other spies, as well as Stalin.

You are a JBS stooge, and all of your silliness above has been disproven on this Board many times.

So, for intelligent and patriotic Americans, PoliticalChic does not get "just once more."