Roe v. Wade getting overturned!!

[BackAgain]

We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Jackson’s Women’s Health Organization (“Women’s Health”) argued that abortion is grounded in the Fourteenth Amendment. It asserted that physical autonomy and body integrity are “essential elements of liberty protected by the Due Process Clause.” For example, contraception is included in the word “liberty.” Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022)

Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization is the 2022 Supreme Court case that reversed Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v.

www.law.cornell.edu

Furthermore, Women’s Health pointed out that federal courts have uniformly applied the viability line.

We are not discussing Dobbs. My thread started by announcing the then likely overturning of Roe v. Wade. But the conversation has covered more territory.

Now, get down to it. Try to articulate it. Be concise, too.

How does the common law have a single thing to do with whether abortion terminates a human life?

How does the common law alter the fact that we have a hierarchy of values which undeniably places life at the top?

Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

 

[BackAgain]

NFBW: DO NOT RUN AWAY YET BackAgain

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022)​

www.law.cornell.edu
Furthermore, Women’s Health pointed out that federal courts have uniformly applied the viability line.


Common Law on viability etc was not overturned by Dobbs / that van was kicked to the states

It’s why Alito wrote this:

“For our part, we do not question the motives of either those who have supported and those who have opposed laws restricting abortion,” Sam Alito..

Common is in your face BackAgain - you cannot tantrum it away!

Put your tantrum behind you. Sack up fool. Answer my questions.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

We are not discussing Dobbs. My thread started by announcing the then likely overturning of Roe v. Wade. But the conversation has covered more territory.

Now, get down to it. Try to articulate it. Be concise, too.

How does the common law have a single thing to do with whether abortion terminates a human life?

How does the common law alter the fact that we have a hierarchy of values which undeniably places life at the top?

Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW: Reply is in progress. Please do not run away in the meantime.

Think about what “hierarchy of values” every live birth person in America will universally be joined in unanimous consensus.

 

[BackAgain]

NFBW: Reply is in progress. Please do not run away in the meantime.

I’m telling you not to run away. And I’m urging you to be honest for a change.

Think about what “hierarchy of values” every live birth person in America will universally be a unanimous consensus.

Try that in English maybe.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Back to the Phantom Zone they go. Where they can rot in pieces. BWAHAHAHA!

What did that mean?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Think about what “hierarchy of values” every live birth person in America will universally be joined in unanimous consensus.

Try that in English maybe.

Think!

 

[BackAgain]

What did that mean?

Try not to worry about it.

 

[BackAgain]

Think!

Communicate clearly! Your addled style lacks clarity. It also lacks logic.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,801 • Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW: We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about it.

Your conscience perceives your unique ‘hierarchy of values” - My conscience perceives my own ‘hierarchy of values”

My conscience tells me not to impregnate a woman unless we are both willing to give birth and life support to a child for at least 18 years. The same conscience tells me not to force my moral beliefs on law abiding citizens I do not know.

The rest is for the record. If you don’t want to read it BackAgain don’t.

NFBW220729-#3,601 BackAgain joins the fray

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

BackAgain-#3,594 “Wrong. What it guarantees is the right to life”

NFBW220729-#3,601 It guarantees the right to life to the born. You already acknowledged that fact. it only mentions born.

BackAgain #2,434 “Yes. It does mention born. But it doesn’t say that the preborn are, on such a flimsy basis, denied the right to life.”

NFBW220729-#3,601 The Constitution does not say that a living human zygote inside a woman’s body has a right to continue developing if the woman does not want it. Nor does the Constitution say that terminating a living human zygote is homicide. . . . . . So why do you keep making shit up about what the Constitution says?

END2303192323

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,801 • How does the common law have a single thing to do with whether abortion terminates a human life?

NFBW: Abortion terminates a human life. Common Law provides the legal history and precedent acquired over centuries for when society has a duty to protect life in the womb. The consensus being at viability not at conception. That is law. All are free in society to protect life in the womb as their conscience dictates.

END2303200026

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,801 • Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW: While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values, here is an issue regarding your questions in post 7801 that need be addressed.

Is the HofV of which you speak balancing the dichotomy of values perceived in adults by their own reason or or as a revelation *1

I ask you that because prior to the decision that overturned Roe in 2022 Correll wrote 2.5 years before the fact suggesting that legal abortion was “hostile” to Christian’s. *3

And we all know for a fact that Christianity is based on revelation not reason.

“Dobbs” is a concise term that shortens the phrase “overturning Roe vs Wade”

Also, for your complaining BackAgain that this overturning Roe thread is limited to whether a fetus has a right to life from conception is blatantly absurd. I submit the following from a summary of Dobbs *2 from Cornell Law. See *2

The Dobbs ruling itself wipes out your argument that there is some kind of hierarchy of values on reproductive rights that cleanly separate revelation from reason or truth from fiction or propaganda from objective reality, or science from religion in the minds of voters. Alito said it clear in Dobbs that he expects the people of various states may evaluate the interests between potential life and a woman who wants an abortion essentially based upon the principle of guaranteed freedom of conscience. Freedom of Conscience is my highest value right above the right to life for all persons experiencing live birth *4

*1 reason or revelation. 230320^a

*2 The Court also explained that “the people of various states” may evaluate the interests between “potential life” and a “woman who wants an abortion” differently than the Court. 230320^09.1

*3 Correll200207-#48 • “Trump will give Christians a Supreme Court that is not hostile to them or their participation in the political process.”

*4 Conscience is sacred property as defined by The Father of The Constitution, the very document being discussed on this thread.
•
NFBW230206-#7,172 And Madison is on record that he believed all persons have a conscience and a conscience is property that each person owns.

“Conscience is the most sacred of all property; other property depending in part on positive law, the exercise of that being a natural and unalienable right.” James Madison^2303.1​

END2303201144

 

[BackAgain]

BackAgain230319-#7,801 • Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW: While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values, here is an issue regarding your questions in post 7801 that need be addressed.

Already noted. It doesn’t matter what one you point to lower than the top spot. The top spot is the right to life.

Your turn Poo Poo.

 

[beagle9]

BackAgain230319-#7,801 • Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW: We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about it.

Your conscience perceives your unique ‘hierarchy of values” - My conscience perceives my own ‘hierarchy of values”

My conscience tells me not to impregnate a woman unless we are both willing to give birth and life support to a child for at least 18 years. The same conscience tells me not to force my moral beliefs on law abiding citizens I do not know.

The rest is for the record. If you don’t want to read it BackAgain don’t.

NFBW220729-#3,601 BackAgain joins the fray

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

BackAgain-#3,594 “Wrong. What it guarantees is the right to life”

NFBW220729-#3,601 It guarantees the right to life to the born. You already acknowledged that fact. it only mentions born.

BackAgain #2,434 “Yes. It does mention born. But it doesn’t say that the preborn are, on such a flimsy basis, denied the right to life.”

NFBW220729-#3,601 The Constitution does not say that a living human zygote inside a woman’s body has a right to continue developing if the woman does not want it. Nor does the Constitution say that terminating a living human zygote is homicide. . . . . . So why do you keep making shit up about what the Constitution says?

END2303192323

If this country was to be run like you and/or your opinion's go, then we would have Biden world (oh wait), we do have that world in play, and it's an uncivilized world or society that we are experiencing. This what you want ? Yes you do, because you are an advocate for it.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,795 • You keep making the claim that the common law has diddly dog to do with the topic.

NFBW230319-#7,797 to: -2 We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition. ​

BackAgain230319-#7,801 to: -4 Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW230319-#7,809 to: -8 We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about

NFBW230320-#7,811 to: -10 While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values . . .

BackAgain230320-#7,812 to: -1 The top spot is the right to life.

NFBW: “Right to life” for the unborn is the top spot on who’s hierarchy of values? It is not at the top on my hierarchy of values. Freedom of conscience is higher than “right to life for the unborn” on my hierarchy of values.

END23031856

 

[beagle9]

BackAgain230319-#7,795 • You keep making the claim that the common law has diddly dog to do with the topic.

NFBW230319-#7,797 to: -2 We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition. ​

BackAgain230319-#7,801 to: -4 Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW230319-#7,809 to: -8 We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about

NFBW230320-#7,811 to: -10 While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values . . .

BackAgain230320-#7,812 to: -1 The top spot is the right to life.

NFBW: “Right to life” for the unborn is the top spot on who’s hierarchy of values? It is not at the top on my hierarchy of values. Freedom of conscience is higher than “right to life for the unborn” on my hierarchy of values.

END23031856

Freedom conscience or thought is always a good thing yes, otherwise it is always good to have one's thoughts and conscience to be clear, but that is only achieved if one is not dwelling in sinfulness and sinful things... It is a great thing to experience on a daily basis if living or trying to live right, but what type of conscience or thoughts do you think a person should be willing to allow themselves to have, otherwise in your perceived unfettered freedom's that you think a person or a woman in this case should try to achieve ??... Do you think that everyone should have total freedom without restrictions, otherwise this you might think within your perceived open ended thoughts on what freedom's should look like or be like maybe ???
Is it that you desire to have or you wish for American's to have total unfettered freedom's without any restrictions upon them whatsoever leftist ??

Remember civilized or uncivilized is the question you must ponder, especially if you were a judge in a case to decide such things upon the merit's and productiveness that either promotes or doesn't promote a CIVILIZED SOCIETY.

So which is it leftist ?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

NFBW239319-#7,809 • My conscience tells me not to impregnate a woman unless we are both willing to give birth and life support to a child for at least 18 years. The same conscience tells me not to force my moral beliefs on law abiding citizens I do not know.

beagle9230320-#7,813 to: -4 “you are an advocate for it” {an uncivilized world}

NFBW: How on god’s green earth beagle9 are my words in post 7809 some kind of advocacy for an uncivilized world.

Can you provide a specific explanation why not impregnating a woman unless we are both willing to give birth and life support to a child for at least nine months + 18 years would lead to an uncivilized world?

Take your time and please think before posting. Jesus says seek the truth, and you shall be free.

END2303202015

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,795 • BackAgain • You keep making the claim that the common law has diddly dog to do with the topic.

NFBW230319-#7,797 to: -2 We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition.

BackAgain230319-#7,801 to: -4 Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW230319-#7,809 to: -8 We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about

NFBW230320-#7,811 to: -10 While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values . . .

BackAgain230320-#7,812 to: -1 The top spot is the right to life.

NFBW230320-#7,814 to: -2 “Right to life” for the unborn is the top spot on who’s hierarchy of values? It is not at the top on my hierarchy of values. Freedom of conscience is higher than “right to life for the unborn” on my hierarchy of values.

beagle9230320-#7,815 to: -1 Freedom {of} conscience or thought is always a good thing yes,

NFBW: Yes. It is every Americans most sacred right:

Conscience is the most sacred of all property; other property depending in part on positive law, the exercise of that being a natural and unalienable right. James Madison^2303.1​

​

Do you agree beagle9 with James Madison there?

END2303202043

 

[whutTHEYsay]

BackAgain230319-#7,795 • BackAgain • You keep making the claim that the common law has diddly dog to do with the topic.

NFBW230319-#7,797 to: -2 We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition.

BackAgain230319-#7,801 to: -4 Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW230319-#7,809 to: -8 We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about

NFBW230320-#7,811 to: -10 While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values . . .

BackAgain230320-#7,812 to: -1 The top spot is the right to life.

NFBW230320-#7,814 to: -2 “Right to life” for the unborn is the top spot on who’s hierarchy of values? It is not at the top on my hierarchy of values. Freedom of conscience is higher than “right to life for the unborn” on my hierarchy of values.

beagle9230320-#7,815 to: -1 it is always good to have one's thoughts and conscience to be clear, but that is only achieved if one is not dwelling in sinfulness and sinful things...

NFBW: I am a rational theist - my thoughts and conscience are clear. I intentionally do no harm to any other persons like me who have met the constitutional requirement in America of live birth.

Rational Theists do not give any indulgence to the fearmongering Hocus Pocus of original sin. We have civil law to deal with criminality that is blind to religious beliefs and revealed types of religion.

I do not dwell on or do sinful things.

END2303202100

 

[BackAgain]

BackAgain230319-#7,795 • BackAgain • You keep making the claim that the common law has diddly dog to do with the topic.

NFBW230319-#7,797 to: -2 We are discussing Dobbs. See BOLD below:

Women’s Health also argued that abortion, or the right of a person to have possession of their own body is important in the common law tradition.

BackAgain230319-#7,801 to: -4 Why shouldn’t a society act upon its own hierarchy of values without concern for any historical so-called “common law” ?

NFBW230319-#7,809 to: -8 We live in a multicultural society where we all have freedom of conscience. There is no ‘hierarchy of values” that each American will use as a moral compass. If it exists please tell me all about

NFBW230320-#7,811 to: -10 While waiting for you BackAgain to identify America’s hierarchy of values . . .

BackAgain230320-#7,812 to: -1 The top spot is the right to life.

NFBW230320-#7,814 to: -2 “Right to life” for the unborn is the top spot on who’s hierarchy of values? It is not at the top on my hierarchy of values. Freedom of conscience is higher than “right to life for the unborn” on my hierarchy of values.

beagle9230320-#7,815 to: -1 it is always good to have one's thoughts and conscience to be clear, but that is only achieved if one is not dwelling in sinfulness and sinful things...

NFBW: I am a rational theist - my thoughts and conscience are clear. I intentionally do no harm to any other person or their property like me who has met the constitutional requirement in America, have live birth. Rational Theists do not give any indulgence to the fearmongering Hocus Pocus of original sin. We have civil law to deal with criminality that is blind to religious beliefs and revealed types of religion.

I do not dwell on or do sinful things.

END2303202100

You are: verbose; largely unreadable; generally lacking in substance; and far-ranging in your efforts to go off topic.

Life begins when it begins. If you’re willing to acknowledge that life begins at conception, then your argument is pro death. But our societal value place the right to life at the very top of our hierarchy of values. Therefore, your argument is antithetical to our land’s values.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

NFBW230320-#7,818 to: -3 I am a rational theist - my thoughts and conscience are clear. I intentionally do no harm to any other persons like me who have met the constitutional requirement in America of live birth.

BackAgain230320-#7,819 to: -1 Life begins when it begins

NFBW: Yes it does. A unique new life begins as part of a separate living human being’s body, mind and soul. You have placed the latter on ignore. The latter’s right of refusal to give the gift of birth to the former is a natural and inalienable right as a matter for her conscience and her conscience alone.

BackAgain230320-#7,819 to: -1 our societal value place the right to life at the very top of our hierarchy of values. Therefore, your argument is antithetical to our land’s values

NFBW: The voters in California and Kansas to name a red state and a blue state for examples of “our land’s” values. But first let’s go back to 2017 for a Catholic’s perspective five years prior to Dobbs. Correll wrote in November 2017 “Kansas might have no abortion. California would probably allow abortion up to actual birth” and was wrong on both counts. See *1

My values are not antithetical to our land’s values if we include California and Kansas as “lands” see *2

Does each state have its own hierarchy of values BackAgain where “right to life for the unborn” is not even close to the top as it is not close to the top in Kansas, Dorothy?


*1 Different states would have different rules based on what their citizens wanted. Kansas might have no abortion. California would probably allow abortion up to actual birth, if not then some. 2017 February 25 Correll171125-#127

*2 Indeed it is--and what a surprise in a red state eh? perhaps woman's desire for reproductive rights transcends politics?
Kansas voters resoundingly protect access to abortion 2022 August 03 EEFleegle-220803-#15

END2303202244