Robert E Lee & The Confederate Solider statue removed in Dallas

[JoeB131]

if we exclude the slave owning Democrat presidents or those with no sex scandals...all they'd be left with is Jimmy Carter, Obama, and Grover Cleveland

Actually, Cleveland had a sex scandal. He fathered a child out of wedlock.

 

[rightwinger]

“In 1848 Grant married into the slaveholding family of Julia Dent. Her father, Frederick Dent, owned 30 enslaved people and had “given” Julia four enslaved people when she was a child: Eliza, Dan, Julia, and John. There is no evidence he legally transferred ownership to Julia but from her writings it is clear she considered them hers.”

So Grant had shitty slave credit and he had it in his wife’s name lol

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

So were Union Soldiers from Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky and West Virginia, but their states
all had an institution of slavery during the Civil War. They just left the whip with their wife when they went off to fight.

btw...I'm still confused as to why MLB was segregated until 1947, even though all the teams were in the North.

How does being in the north make a difference?

MLB had a "gentlemen's agreement" for the six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, which pretty much reflected the racial attitudes nationally in sports and in everything else. And that developed largely as another result of the Lost Cause Cult that was putting out the revisionist propaganda. That begat the spike in lynchings, race riots, the re-foundijng of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, "cover" records (which is why I never use the term), and the baseball "color line".

That's part of the poisonous effect of the same shit that plopped out these statues.

That's why MLB never call Robinson the "first black ballplayer" because he wasn't. They say he "broke the color line". That color line was established along with the degradation of racial relations begat by the Lost Cause Bullshit, along with the infamous Tulsa Race Riots and others like it, the Al Jolson schtick and the songs that Kate Smith recently got abandoned for. All that built up together into the worst period of racial relations this country has ever had.

The thing with baseballs color line is that none of the cities in MLB were in Jim Crow country. There were no laws requiring segregation and those cities had a sizable black population

Still they insisted on an ironclad ban on blacks

 

[bendog]

brothers and sisters: when attack the confederate heroes, you attack the whole United States.

first its Lee, next week it'll be George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. WHEN DOES IT END?

even JFK talked about Robert E Lee in glowing terms when he visited the south.

Virginia Gov Terry McCauliffee praised Lee in 2015, but now that he wants to run for president, he's demanding that the statue gets taken down

Jefferson Lee Washington and all others were great men. But even Lincoln - by most accounts the greatest American - violated the constitution knowingly on mult occasions. I don't think anyone wants a monument to that. No one person represents America. If states put up monuments to honor some sacrifice made by soldiers or other groups, that's great. There's no argument that thats' NOT what the Lost Cause statues of dead Generals was about though. It was about Social Power remaining with the Whites, and the Lost Cause was noble. That's why your thread is a lie.

If the natl govt decides that as a nation we should have a statue of some person that represents some aspect of the person's life (Jefferson the const, Lincoln the union, Grant the union, FDR the leader) I'm ok with it, because there has to be some consensus nationally that its appropriate

Abe Lincoln was a white supremacist, my friend

Lincoln was called "the baboon president" in the north and "assassin murderer" in the south

And a better humanist than any of the slave owning confederate generals who are your heros.

 

[Pogo]

“In 1848 Grant married into the slaveholding family of Julia Dent. Her father, Frederick Dent, owned 30 enslaved people and had “given” Julia four enslaved people when she was a child: Eliza, Dan, Julia, and John. There is no evidence he legally transferred ownership to Julia but from her writings it is clear she considered them hers.”

So Grant had shitty slave credit and he had it in his wife’s name lol

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

So were Union Soldiers from Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky and West Virginia, but their states
all had an institution of slavery during the Civil War. They just left the whip with their wife when they went off to fight.

btw...I'm still confused as to why MLB was segregated until 1947, even though all the teams were in the North.

How does being in the north make a difference?

MLB had a "gentlemen's agreement" for the six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, which pretty much reflected the racial attitudes nationally in sports and in everything else. And that developed largely as another result of the Lost Cause Cult that was putting out the revisionist propaganda. That begat the spike in lynchings, race riots, the re-foundijng of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, "cover" records (which is why I never use the term), and the baseball "color line".

That's part of the poisonous effect of the same shit that plopped out these statues.

That's why MLB never call Robinson the "first black ballplayer" because he wasn't. They say he "broke the color line". That color line was established along with the degradation of racial relations begat by the Lost Cause Bullshit, along with the infamous Tulsa Race Riots and others like it, the Al Jolson schtick and the songs that Kate Smith recently got abandoned for. All that built up together into the worst period of racial relations this country has ever had.

The thing with baseballs color line is that none of the cities in MLB were in Jim Crow country. There were no laws requiring segregation and those cities had a sizable black population

Still they insisted on an ironclad ban on blacks

True dat, and those black populations especially in the Midwest, migrated there largely for the industrialization boom of World War I, again same time period ("Birth of a Nation" 1915; East St. Louis riots 1917; ":Red Summer" 1919; Tulsa Race Riots 1921), and upon their arrival were shunted into ghettos to keep them apart. All part of the same background. The residue of it is still apparent in St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. That's six baseball teams right there.

 

[Pogo]

if we exclude the slave owning Democrat presidents or those with no sex scandals...all they'd be left with is Jimmy Carter, Obama, and Grover Cleveland

Actually, Cleveland had a sex scandal. He fathered a child out of wedlock.

Yabbut was that Grover Cleveland, or was it Grover Cleveland? They're two different people, they tell us.

Basking in Bromide seems to have forgot about Wilson, LBJ, Pierce and Martin van Buren to name four, but consider the source. Not that any of this is relevant to anything but one more emanation of "I don't need history, I can just pull it out of my ass".

 

[Pogo]

“In 1848 Grant married into the slaveholding family of Julia Dent. Her father, Frederick Dent, owned 30 enslaved people and had “given” Julia four enslaved people when she was a child: Eliza, Dan, Julia, and John. There is no evidence he legally transferred ownership to Julia but from her writings it is clear she considered them hers.”

So Grant had shitty slave credit and he had it in his wife’s name lol

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

His wife wasn’t

Once again, neither Grant nor his wife was part of the Lost Cause Cult. They are as irrelevant here as Grover Cleveland.

 

[rightwinger]

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

So were Union Soldiers from Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky and West Virginia, but their states
all had an institution of slavery during the Civil War. They just left the whip with their wife when they went off to fight.

btw...I'm still confused as to why MLB was segregated until 1947, even though all the teams were in the North.

How does being in the north make a difference?

MLB had a "gentlemen's agreement" for the six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, which pretty much reflected the racial attitudes nationally in sports and in everything else. And that developed largely as another result of the Lost Cause Cult that was putting out the revisionist propaganda. That begat the spike in lynchings, race riots, the re-foundijng of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, "cover" records (which is why I never use the term), and the baseball "color line".

That's part of the poisonous effect of the same shit that plopped out these statues.

That's why MLB never call Robinson the "first black ballplayer" because he wasn't. They say he "broke the color line". That color line was established along with the degradation of racial relations begat by the Lost Cause Bullshit, along with the infamous Tulsa Race Riots and others like it, the Al Jolson schtick and the songs that Kate Smith recently got abandoned for. All that built up together into the worst period of racial relations this country has ever had.

The thing with baseballs color line is that none of the cities in MLB were in Jim Crow country. There were no laws requiring segregation and those cities had a sizable black population

Still they insisted on an ironclad ban on blacks

True dat, and those black populations especially in the Midwest, migrated there largely for the industrialization boom of World War I, again same time period ("Birth of a Nation" 1915; East St. Louis riots 1917; ":Red Summer" 1919; Tulsa Race Riots 1921), and upon their arrival were shunted into ghettos to keep them apart. All part of the same background. The residue of it is still apparent in St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. That's six baseball teams right there.

Of all the MLB cities, StL had the largest Jim Crow leanings
None had actual laws requiring it

 

[bendog]

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

So were Union Soldiers from Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky and West Virginia, but their states
all had an institution of slavery during the Civil War. They just left the whip with their wife when they went off to fight.

btw...I'm still confused as to why MLB was segregated until 1947, even though all the teams were in the North.

How does being in the north make a difference?

MLB had a "gentlemen's agreement" for the six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, which pretty much reflected the racial attitudes nationally in sports and in everything else. And that developed largely as another result of the Lost Cause Cult that was putting out the revisionist propaganda. That begat the spike in lynchings, race riots, the re-foundijng of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, "cover" records (which is why I never use the term), and the baseball "color line".

That's part of the poisonous effect of the same shit that plopped out these statues.

That's why MLB never call Robinson the "first black ballplayer" because he wasn't. They say he "broke the color line". That color line was established along with the degradation of racial relations begat by the Lost Cause Bullshit, along with the infamous Tulsa Race Riots and others like it, the Al Jolson schtick and the songs that Kate Smith recently got abandoned for. All that built up together into the worst period of racial relations this country has ever had.

The thing with baseballs color line is that none of the cities in MLB were in Jim Crow country. There were no laws requiring segregation and those cities had a sizable black population

Still they insisted on an ironclad ban on blacks

True dat, and those black populations especially in the Midwest, migrated there largely for the industrialization boom of World War I, again same time period ("Birth of a Nation" 1915; East St. Louis riots 1917; ":Red Summer" 1919; Tulsa Race Riots 1921), and upon their arrival were shunted into ghettos to keep them apart. All part of the same background. The residue of it is still apparent in St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. That's six baseball teams right there.

I don't think there was much questioning of segregation anywhere in the US by those in power until the 1950s. But I think you know that was different from the myth of the Lost Cause. Slavery was never beneficial, and it was not countenanced by the white Christian God. But Black people were seen as not able to control their emotions and have the intellectual ability to function as full citizens.

The Lost Cause wannabers shared the bigotry, but used it to justify not just their pre-civil war economy that was fueled by slave labor but also their post-civil war behavior that used physical and sexual abuse to terrorize a black population to continue to be labor that worked cheap and could not bargain.

 

[DJT for Life]

The point has already been made. The North has always been just as racist as the South.

The only difference was the South had laws for segregation and the North practiced segregation, de facto.

 

[Pogo]

The point has already been made. The North has always been just as racist as the South.

The only difference was the South had laws for segregation and the North practiced segregation, de facto.

Basically true but STILL irrelevant to this topic. Has nothing to do with statue-moving. The OP tried to sell that shit as a strawman and got his ass correctified.

 

[bendog]

The point has already been made. The North has always been just as racist as the South.

The only difference was the South had laws for segregation and the North practiced segregation, de facto.

No the point is whether the Lost Cause was ever worthy of monuments and veneration.

 

[Pogo]

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

So were Union Soldiers from Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky and West Virginia, but their states
all had an institution of slavery during the Civil War. They just left the whip with their wife when they went off to fight.

btw...I'm still confused as to why MLB was segregated until 1947, even though all the teams were in the North.

How does being in the north make a difference?

MLB had a "gentlemen's agreement" for the six decades between Moses Walker and Jackie Robinson, which pretty much reflected the racial attitudes nationally in sports and in everything else. And that developed largely as another result of the Lost Cause Cult that was putting out the revisionist propaganda. That begat the spike in lynchings, race riots, the re-foundijng of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, "cover" records (which is why I never use the term), and the baseball "color line".

That's part of the poisonous effect of the same shit that plopped out these statues.

That's why MLB never call Robinson the "first black ballplayer" because he wasn't. They say he "broke the color line". That color line was established along with the degradation of racial relations begat by the Lost Cause Bullshit, along with the infamous Tulsa Race Riots and others like it, the Al Jolson schtick and the songs that Kate Smith recently got abandoned for. All that built up together into the worst period of racial relations this country has ever had.

The thing with baseballs color line is that none of the cities in MLB were in Jim Crow country. There were no laws requiring segregation and those cities had a sizable black population

Still they insisted on an ironclad ban on blacks

True dat, and those black populations especially in the Midwest, migrated there largely for the industrialization boom of World War I, again same time period ("Birth of a Nation" 1915; East St. Louis riots 1917; ":Red Summer" 1919; Tulsa Race Riots 1921), and upon their arrival were shunted into ghettos to keep them apart. All part of the same background. The residue of it is still apparent in St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. That's six baseball teams right there.

I don't think there was much questioning of segregation anywhere in the US by those in power until the 1950s. But I think you know that was different from the myth of the Lost Cause. Slavery was never beneficial, and it was not countenanced by the white Christian God. But Black people were seen as not able to control their emotions and have the intellectual ability to function as full citizens.

The Lost Cause wannabers shared the bigotry, but used it to justify not just their pre-civil war economy that was fueled by slave labor but also their post-civil war behavior that used physical and sexual abuse to terrorize a black population to continue to be labor that worked cheap and could not bargain.

I don't see them as independent of each other at all. The surge in lynchings, the banning of blacks from baseball (they hadn't been banned earlier), the race rioting, segregated public services, "race records", the re-forming and explosion in membership of the Klan, the Al Jolson images, Birth of a Nation, Gone With the Wind, the statues in question here, ALL gurgled up at the same time, and the Lost Cause Cult and its literally-rewritten history books were a major fueling catalyst in all of it. I see these as inextricable aspects of the same social dynamic. They couldn't have all bubbled up without the underlying social value being laid as a foundation by those rewritten history books, those statues and memorials, those books, plays and movies.

Seems to me the Confederacy decided if it couldn't win the war physically, it would wage one intellectually. And to a very large extent it won that one, at least for several generations. This all began right after the War ended.

We might even include the illegalization of marijuana and the myriad denunciations of jazz and later rock and roll. All branches of that same tree.

Baseball, to single it out no pun intended, is a good example. When people started playing baseball it didn't occur to them to disallow blacks on a team. That had to be learned.out of the propaganda. And later, of course, unlearned. So I think it's not a stretch to say that when Branch Rickey took on the social taboo of the baseball 'color line', he was indirectly taking on this same dynamic of this Lost Cause philosophy and what it stood for.

 

[DJT for Life]

The point has already been made. The North has always been just as racist as the South.

The only difference was the South had laws for segregation and the North practiced segregation, de facto.

No the point is whether the Lost Cause was ever worthy of monuments and veneration.

There is no doubt about that. Of Course it was worth it.

If it wasn't for the Men of the South, this country would have never been a country. We'd still be answering to King Georg III.

George Washington was a Virginian. So was Patrick Henry. R.E. Lee's, daddy was "Light Horse" Harry Lee. Washington's best
Cavalry officer, who is buried with honors at West Point. During the Mexican-American War it was George Pickett that place the
American Flag atop the Mexican fortress in Mexico City. Maj John Armisted was the commanding officer of Fort McHenry.
He was Virginian, a slave owner and he will forever be known as the protector of the original Star Spangled Banner.

Audie Murphy was a Texan. Alvin York was from Tennessee. George Patton was educated at VMI.

Fuck you Yankees and/or Coon lovers. You fuck with the South you better bring your lunch.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Just like the Taliban, destroying art, trying to erase history.

The Taliban carefully dismantled relics and sold them?

No. What a stupid post by you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People have asked about Jefferson, Washington, etc, as they owned slaves.

One solution? Get rid of their statues, too. We can read history. We don't need monuments to them.

Another? Add to the plaques on them about our moral progress as a society.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No, I just didn't give a fuck.

The Southern assholes fought to preserve slavery. They don't deserve statues.

So, what's wrong with this memorial?

Those men did their duty to their state and died for it.

Are you saying they should't be remembered for their sacrifice and bravery, when they had so little influence on the cause?

If you want to shit on a statue of Lee, fine, even though he honorably served the U.S. in the Mexican-American war and was an instructor at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. These poor southern boys who were conscripted into the CSA military don't deserve some respect or memorial for dying for their state, regardless of the misguided motives of said state?



.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

People have asked about Jefferson, Washington, etc, as they owned slaves.

One solution? Get rid of their statues, too. We can read history. We don't need monuments to them.

Another? Add to the plaques on them about our moral progress as a society.

And, as I said earlier....THIS IS THE REAL MOTIVE!!!!

You fucking commies picked Charlottsville, NOT because of the statue of Lee, but because it is the location of Monticello.

You fucking HATE the principles of liberty and you want them ERASED, because you are fucking authoritarian commie shits!!!


.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Those men did their duty to their state and died for it.

Tough shit. They fought for evil. No public monumemts to Nazis in Germany, either.

 

[Truth1253]

“In 1848 Grant married into the slaveholding family of Julia Dent. Her father, Frederick Dent, owned 30 enslaved people and had “given” Julia four enslaved people when she was a child: Eliza, Dan, Julia, and John. There is no evidence he legally transferred ownership to Julia but from her writings it is clear she considered them hers.”

So Grant had shitty slave credit and he had it in his wife’s name lol

So he didn't own them, his wife's family did. MAN, that's a fucking stretch.

Grant was fighting AGAINST the institution of slavery and against traitorous secessionists.

His wife wasn’t

Once again, neither Grant nor his wife was part of the Lost Cause Cult. They are as irrelevant here as Grover Cleveland.

His wife owned 30 slaves but that doesn’t bother me even free blacks owned slaves back in the day. They were slaves by other blacks when they bought them. Relax

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People have asked about Jefferson, Washington, etc, as they owned slaves.

One solution? Get rid of their statues, too. We can read history. We don't need monuments to them.

Another? Add to the plaques on them about our moral progress as a society.

And, as I said earlier....THIS IS THE REAL MOTIVE!!!!

You fucking commies picked Charlottsville, NOT because of the statue of Lee, but because it is the location of Monticello.

You fucking HATE the principles of liberty and you want them ERASED, because you are fucking authoritarian commie shits!!!


.

What, you reactionary idiot? Thats stupod. You sound like a moron. I am not suggesting all statues be taken down. But you are very clearly ONLY caring about slaver statues. So, really, we are gaining more insight into your racist little inner demon than we are into me.