Rigged Elections and Voter Fraud - how common is fraud? Not very.

[Tilly]

Citizens alone cannot commit the voter fraud on the large scale. That could be done only by the election officials and by those who are in power over ballot boxes/voting machines/vote counts. That's why voter ID laws are necessary to make sure that only registered voters with proper ID can cast only one vote. Stuffing boxes would be impossible.

Voter ID would have no effect on ballot stuffing.

Clarify.

With voter ID, if there is one vote more counted than person voted, it could be proven that there is a fraud. One.

And in that case, I would void vote for whole precinct and do re-vote with additional oversight. Until it all match.

Ballot stuffing is when one person submits multiple ballots during a vote. ID wouldn't make a difference in that.

Voter ID would prevent exactly that.

By the way, ballot stuffing term is primarily used to describe election official stuffing the ballot box with the additional premarked ballots that favors one side.

In the U.K. There is usually a poll worker sitting at the ballot box and it would literally be impossible for the voter to do this under such conditions.

 

[OKTexas]

Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.

Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?

Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.

If all you want is to prove eligibility, then greatly expand the list of allowable ID's.

And require proof of citizenship to register. You want to use college IDs, then require colleges to issue different IDs to non-citizens, same with public assistance IDs.

like this one

View attachment 94981

Conceal carry permits can be issued to non-citizens in certain states. Yet they are an allowable ID.

Since the CHL licenses are almost exactly like the drivers licenses I'm sure non citizen versions are available, I will verify that tomorrow.

 

[Seawytch]

It's not the ID itself that is the burden, it is the narrow and restrictive nature of the ID required in some states that disenfranchises voters.

 

[paulitician]

All US Elections are rigged in some way. Whoever does the most thorough rigging, will be the winners. I mean, a couple Democrats just got caught on hidden camera boasting about how they bus in Illegals, Felons, and people from different states to vote on Election Day. So, voter fraud is actually very common. But people getting caught and prosecuted for it, isn't. That's the sad reality folks.

 

[RealDave]

The Law unfairly targets Minority Communities.

How?

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Supporters say that everyone should easily be able to get a photo ID and that the requirement is needed to combat voter fraud. But many election experts say that the process for obtaining a photo ID can be far more difficult than it looks for hundreds of thousands of people across the country who do not have the required photo identification cards. Those most likely to be affected are elderly citizens, African Americans, Hispanics and low-income residents.

“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote. “Many people will give up and not even bother trying to vote.”

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.
​

Courts are finally pointing out the racism behind voter ID laws

In North Carolina, the legislature requested racial data on the use of electoral mechanisms, then restricted all those disproportionately used by blacks, such as early voting, same-day registration and out-of-precinct voting. Absentee ballots, disproportionately used by white voters, were exempted from the voter ID requirement. The legislative record actually justified the elimination of one of the two days of Sunday voting because “counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black” and “disproportionately Democratic.”


The documents acceptable for proving voters’ identity in North Carolina were the ones disproportionately held by whites, such as driver’s licenses, U.S. passports, and veteran and military IDs, and the ones that were left out were the ones often held by poor minority voters, such as student IDs, government employee IDs and public assistance IDs. The Texas voter ID law was designed the same way: There, officials accepted concealed-weapon licenses but not student or state employee IDs. The Texas legislature was repeatedly advised of the likely effect on minority voters but rebuffed nearly all amendments that would have eased its harsh impact.​

Blah, blah, blah, blah, typical regressive double speak and situational bullshit.

If a conservative mentions all the minorities on welfare, the left charges out, pointing at more whites being on welfare rolls than minorities.

Now a proposal is made that would effect ALL poor people exactly the same, but no, it's suddenly racist and disproportionately effects only poor minorities.

You fuckers are a real piece of work.

Do you know what disproportionately means? Didn't think so. You whioers are just plain dumber than sh*t.

 

[RealDave]

So much for all this condescending racist claptrap from the left - using minority groups as an excuse to maintain the potential for fraud.

It looks to me that people of all stripes might be more inclined to vote if they know their vote really does count and won't be nullified by fraud.

In Georgia, for example, there was a staggering 140% increase in the number of Hispanic/Latino voters after the introduction of voter ID, a 42% increase among black voters, and an increase of 8% among white voters. No SUPRESSION or RACISM here, more like a positive empowering move.
Stop being patronising racists, lefties!

....Georgia’s experience with minority voters also directly refutes the claims that voter ID laws somehow prevent racial minorities from voting. Keep in mind that Georgia’s photo ID requirement was not in place in the 2004 presidential election or the 2006 mid-term congressional elections. The law was first effective in the 2008 presidential election and the 2010 congressional elections, although Georgia has actually had at least 40 state and federal elections since September 2007 when the law became effective, not including municipal and county elections. More than 15 million votes have been cast in those elections.

According to the Secretary of State, the turnout of black and Hispanic voters has been as follows:

The increase in turnout of both Hispanics and blacks in the 2008 presidential election after the voter ID law became effective is quite remarkable, particularly given the unproven and totally speculative claims of the Justice Department that the voter ID requirements of Texas and South Carolina will somehow have a discriminatory impact on Hispanic and black voters.[7] In fact, Georgia had the largest turnout of minority voters in its history.

Lessons from the Voter ID Experience in Georgia

First of all, Barack Obama running in 2008 drove up the minority voter participation. Second, f you don't have a photo ID in Georgia, you can vote absentee ballot.

 

[kaz]

Tell ya what, let's require proof of citizenship and proper ID for one election and see what happens to the numbers showing up to vote. Deal?

You mean Republican efforts to disenfranchise legitimate voters?

Tell you what - let's have evidence that it's a serious problem first. The data so far says it isn't, and more to the point if someone was going to throw an election this would be the hardest way to do it - if not impossible.

So there is no fraud, there is lots of fraud and it's the Republicans fault, got it. Do you want to work on your story?

And no one has been denied the ability to vote in this country by any of the Republican measures. Not one

 

[RealDave]

Yes really. Different laws in different states - the ones with the most restrictive laws (such as Texas and NC) were slammed by the courts. They also had the poorest educational and outreach efforts to try and assist people in getting id's and letting them know what ID's would work. One the worst things is that they also had the fewest number of acceptable ID's (and, amazingly - those were the types of state ID's largely used by Republicans and whites such as handgun permits and military ID's) - other forms of state ID (such as student ID's) were not allowed. Indiana's law seems to be working well - Indiana also did a lot of work to provide free ID's for people that didn't have then, to provide education and information well ahead, so that may have have helped.

But there are significant problems with older and poor people, especially minorities who might not have a birth certificate, for example - or the means to get to the places they might have to go in order to get the documentation or ID's if they don't have a car, live in a state where locations are open only a few days a month and are far away. They probably would just give up and not vote (which I think is what some desire).

I would have less of a problem with Voter ID if they were less restrictive in what was allowed for an ID, and if the cost was covered for the voter of any documentation and transportation needed to get that ID. If people can transport voters to polling places, they can do so for ID's.

You have to understand there is a difference between a college ID and a CCW permit. When I got my permit, they checked me out from the day I turned 18. I had to be electronically fingerprinted, I had to present two verifiable forms of ID. I had to bring my own photo from a place that makes them for passports. No other picture would be accepted.

If people don't have a ride to get an ID, then how would they get a ride to vote? How do they go grocery shopping? How do they get to their doctors appointments? How do they cash their checks wherever they come from?

The situations you present are not valid, they are cheap excuses. They are reasons to fight to continue having such a fragile and weak means of voting where fraud can continue.

Well, your post was really naive. How many places in any county can you get a photo ID vs the number of polling places? Look it up & let me know if you still think it is as easy to get to that photo ID place as a neighborhood polling place.

 

[RealDave]

What blows my mind about the voter fraud issue is that the RW didn't even care about this issue before repubs in office expressed faux outrage over it in the 2012 election. For some bizarre reason, USMB cons believe everything republicans in office tell them.

So what are these Republicans telling us?

Look......some of us here have presented multiple stories of voter fraud evidence. I have an entire folder of links. Voter fraud is real.

If you want to talk about what those in office tell us, it's your party that made this into a nonexistent racial thing when race was not even a subject. The reason Democrats do this is because race is such a sensitive issue and expect most to cave in on it.

This has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with party. One law fits all. How much more fair can it be than that?

I have yet to see one of you document a single case if significant voter fraud that a photo ID would prevent.

No there are not busloads of illegals coming in & voting. No, you don't have a cousin that saw it.

We have listened to Republicans who, here in PA, bragged how their photo ID law just gave PA to Romney. Then the courts stepped in.Explain that one.

'Quit cheatng to try to win elections. It is that simple.

 

[koshergrl]

Why are you regressives trying so hard to prevent your opponents from voting?

Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.

Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?

Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.

Christ stop pretending this issue ever mattered to you prior to 2012 when republican officials starting whining about it.

It did matter. Always. Every election cycle leftist got encouraged more and more, since there was no way to stop them and no way to proof they were doing it. And even when there is a proof, consequences were non existent.

It's racketeering. It's what the left.is.good at. That and money laundering.

 

[RealDave]

What blows my mind about the voter fraud issue is that the RW didn't even care about this issue before repubs in office expressed faux outrage over it in the 2012 election. For some bizarre reason, USMB cons believe everything republicans in office tell them.

So what are these Republicans telling us?

Look......some of us here have presented multiple stories of voter fraud evidence. I have an entire folder of links. Voter fraud is real.

If you want to talk about what those in office tell us, it's your party that made this into a nonexistent racial thing when race was not even a subject. The reason Democrats do this is because race is such a sensitive issue and expect most to cave in on it.

This has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with party. One law fits all. How much more fair can it be than that?

No one ever said it didn't happen. It's just very rare and therefore doesn't matter. Again, you people didn't give two shits about this issue before repubs in office started whining over it in 2012.

You mean people are rarely caught, the way the system is set up, it encourages fraud, there are no meaningful ways to check citizenship and without ID you have no way to check if it is the person registered.

What?????? You have to give a name. That name must appear in a voting book that dshows they are registered.

 

[RealDave]

Yes really. Different laws in different states - the ones with the most restrictive laws (such as Texas and NC) were slammed by the courts. They also had the poorest educational and outreach efforts to try and assist people in getting id's and letting them know what ID's would work. One the worst things is that they also had the fewest number of acceptable ID's (and, amazingly - those were the types of state ID's largely used by Republicans and whites such as handgun permits and military ID's) - other forms of state ID (such as student ID's) were not allowed. Indiana's law seems to be working well - Indiana also did a lot of work to provide free ID's for people that didn't have then, to provide education and information well ahead, so that may have have helped.

But there are significant problems with older and poor people, especially minorities who might not have a birth certificate, for example - or the means to get to the places they might have to go in order to get the documentation or ID's if they don't have a car, live in a state where locations are open only a few days a month and are far away. They probably would just give up and not vote (which I think is what some desire).

I would have less of a problem with Voter ID if they were less restrictive in what was allowed for an ID, and if the cost was covered for the voter of any documentation and transportation needed to get that ID. If people can transport voters to polling places, they can do so for ID's.

So why are you regressives spending so much on lawyers trying to kill these laws, couldn't you put those same funds helping people get their IDs?

Why are you regressives trying so hard to prevent your opponents from voting?

Only the ineligible and illegal, that's not regressive at all.

Nothing regressive in insisting that all eligible voters are able to vote either. So why are you throwing around "regressive regressive regressive"?

Feel free to point out any quote from me that said eligible voters shouldn't be voting. I just want them to prove eligibility. Just like we make you prove you're eligible to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drive, cash a check, open a bank account or any of the thousands of other activities that require proof of eligibility.

I have news, you can actually live & survive in our society without a fricken photo ID.

 

[RealDave]

Voter ‘ID’ laws which pass Constitutional muster will allow voters to identify themselves with a comprehensive range of documents – such as a utility bill, a student ID, or a paycheck stub.

Any of which can be scanned by a $30.00 printer, manipulated to change the name and address, and use to vote; well, I don't know about the student ID, but I can forge the other two documents.

How do you get a photo ID if you don't have one? Through documents.

 

[RealDave]

The thing is - why would people go to so much trouble to forge id just to vote?

You've said that those who have trouble getting the right ID are too lazy, but you seem to think people are willing to go to a lot of trouble to fake an id - just to cast one vote?

That's a good question. Why would people go through the trouble of getting mentally retarded people to attend Trump rallies in hopes they will be attacked to make the candidate look bad?

WOW!!!! There is no end to your conspiracy theories.

 

[koshergrl]

Voter ‘ID’ laws which pass Constitutional muster will allow voters to identify themselves with a comprehensive range of documents – such as a utility bill, a student ID, or a paycheck stub.

Any of which can be scanned by a $30.00 printer, manipulated to change the name and address, and use to vote; well, I don't know about the student ID, but I can forge the other two documents.

How do you get a photo ID if you don't have one? Through documents.

There is an id verification hierarchy. A combination of birth cert, social security card, utility bill, third party statement (if they have id ) other photo ids.passports, immigrant status verification...all can be used in combination to obtain state issued id. But we are at the point now where the best id is a passport. Everybody should have one, and get one for your kids. This is a communist country now.

 

[koshergrl]

I carry our birth certificates with me now.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If these people were really concerned about voter fraud as they claim, the first thing they should want done is to get rid of the electoral college.

 

[bravoactual]

The only ""Proof", Cons can offer up are the words of losing Candidate....."I see dead people voting'. Get fucking real.

The solution they have for the Non-Existent Voter Fraud, is to actively deprive U.S. Citizens of their Constitutionally Protected Right to Vote.

They do not offer any form actual proof of such Voter Fraud, all they have is a candidate who boasts of sexual assault.

There are no "Millions of Illegals" crossing the border to vote, just ravings of man who lacks the necessary qualifications to be called an intelligent life form.

What the despondent Cons need to remember is this. der Trumpendiken was never going to win. Trumpendiken was never going to win. You chose a loser...a huge loser, a bigley loser.....the bigliest loser that ever lost.

 

[OKTexas]

The Law unfairly targets Minority Communities.

How?

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Supporters say that everyone should easily be able to get a photo ID and that the requirement is needed to combat voter fraud. But many election experts say that the process for obtaining a photo ID can be far more difficult than it looks for hundreds of thousands of people across the country who do not have the required photo identification cards. Those most likely to be affected are elderly citizens, African Americans, Hispanics and low-income residents.

“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote. “Many people will give up and not even bother trying to vote.”

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.
​

Courts are finally pointing out the racism behind voter ID laws

In North Carolina, the legislature requested racial data on the use of electoral mechanisms, then restricted all those disproportionately used by blacks, such as early voting, same-day registration and out-of-precinct voting. Absentee ballots, disproportionately used by white voters, were exempted from the voter ID requirement. The legislative record actually justified the elimination of one of the two days of Sunday voting because “counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black” and “disproportionately Democratic.”


The documents acceptable for proving voters’ identity in North Carolina were the ones disproportionately held by whites, such as driver’s licenses, U.S. passports, and veteran and military IDs, and the ones that were left out were the ones often held by poor minority voters, such as student IDs, government employee IDs and public assistance IDs. The Texas voter ID law was designed the same way: There, officials accepted concealed-weapon licenses but not student or state employee IDs. The Texas legislature was repeatedly advised of the likely effect on minority voters but rebuffed nearly all amendments that would have eased its harsh impact.​

Blah, blah, blah, blah, typical regressive double speak and situational bullshit.

If a conservative mentions all the minorities on welfare, the left charges out, pointing at more whites being on welfare rolls than minorities.

Now a proposal is made that would effect ALL poor people exactly the same, but no, it's suddenly racist and disproportionately effects only poor minorities.

You fuckers are a real piece of work.

Do you know what disproportionately means? Didn't think so. You whioers are just plain dumber than sh*t.

Yep, I know exactly what it means, I can also recognize bullshit when I see it, and you're full of it.

 

[RealDave]

The Law unfairly targets Minority Communities.

How?

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

Supporters say that everyone should easily be able to get a photo ID and that the requirement is needed to combat voter fraud. But many election experts say that the process for obtaining a photo ID can be far more difficult than it looks for hundreds of thousands of people across the country who do not have the required photo identification cards. Those most likely to be affected are elderly citizens, African Americans, Hispanics and low-income residents.

“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote. “Many people will give up and not even bother trying to vote.”

A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.

Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.
​

Courts are finally pointing out the racism behind voter ID laws

In North Carolina, the legislature requested racial data on the use of electoral mechanisms, then restricted all those disproportionately used by blacks, such as early voting, same-day registration and out-of-precinct voting. Absentee ballots, disproportionately used by white voters, were exempted from the voter ID requirement. The legislative record actually justified the elimination of one of the two days of Sunday voting because “counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black” and “disproportionately Democratic.”


The documents acceptable for proving voters’ identity in North Carolina were the ones disproportionately held by whites, such as driver’s licenses, U.S. passports, and veteran and military IDs, and the ones that were left out were the ones often held by poor minority voters, such as student IDs, government employee IDs and public assistance IDs. The Texas voter ID law was designed the same way: There, officials accepted concealed-weapon licenses but not student or state employee IDs. The Texas legislature was repeatedly advised of the likely effect on minority voters but rebuffed nearly all amendments that would have eased its harsh impact.​

Blah, blah, blah, blah, typical regressive double speak and situational bullshit.

If a conservative mentions all the minorities on welfare, the left charges out, pointing at more whites being on welfare rolls than minorities.

Now a proposal is made that would effect ALL poor people exactly the same, but no, it's suddenly racist and disproportionately effects only poor minorities.

You fuckers are a real piece of work.

Do you know what disproportionately means? Didn't think so. You whioers are just plain dumber than sh*t.

Yep, I know exactly what it means, I can also recognize bullshit when I see it, and you're full of it.

If you knew what it meant, you would not have made the comment you did.

Say you have a bowl of red & green marbles where it is 20% red.

If I take some out & put them in a different bowl & this bowl had 40% red marbles, then it would be disproportionately Red even though there were more green marbles in both bowls.

Suppose that there are 40% of the people at are Republican & 40% Democrat & 20% other. If we stopped a million people at random from voting, then the resulting loss in votes would coincide with the expected.

If you stop a million poor people from voting, you stop a sample that is disproportionately poor & thereby disproportionately Democrat voters.