Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[Sixties Fan]

The government of Palestine? We agree. So we have a government which refuses to provide for its own people?

How do we try to fix that?

We do? Maybe they don’t have the funds. Their economy is in shambles.

Maybe if Abbas, Arafat's widow and all other Palestinian leaders went to their banks and took out all the money they stole from all the aid which was to go to the people and the building of Gaza and the PA, the Palestinian economy would not be in shambles.

Millions and Millions put in their pockets instead of invested in infrastructure and other necessities.

That is a common problem with aid though, in many countries. Why single Palestine out?

Only the Palestinian leaders do certain things the other countries do not.

Those things are in the news all the time.

Actually...they don’t.

Do you even know what I was referring to?

And it is not in the news all the time?

Isn't it one of the reasons the US put an end to the aid to the Palestinians?

 

[Shusha]

Here are some of the things US Aid to Israel goes to.

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It includes schools, hospitals, and refugee and migration assistance.

I didn't see anything about schools or hospitals. Can you direct me to that place in the summary?

I did see refugee and migration assistance. That would be assistance for foreigners arriving from other countries due to persecution or conflict. This is not aide to help Israelis -- its to help the foreign nationals who end up in Israel's care.

That is to help Israeli’s - it is for people immigrating to Israel. From that link:

Migration & Refugee Assistance
Since 1973, Israel has received grants from the State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account (MRA)67 to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. Funds are paid to the United Israel Appeal, a private philanthropic organization in the United States, which in turn transfers the funds to the Jewish Agency for Israel.68 Between 1973 and 1991, the United States gave about $460 million for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel. Annual amounts have varied from a low of $12 million to a high of $80 million, based at least partly on the number of Jews leaving the former Soviet Union and other areas for Israel.

If you look under U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It lists schools.

American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA)74
Through foreign operations appropriations legislation, Congress has funded the ASHA program as part of the overall Development Assistance (DA) appropriation to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). According to USAID, ASHA is designed to strengthen self-sustaining schools, libraries, and medical centers that best demonstrate American ideals and practices abroad. ASHA has been providing support to institutions in the Middle East since 1957, and a number of universities and hospitals in Israel have been recipients of ASHA grants. In FY2015 (the most recent year for which data are available), ASHA grant recipients in Israel included Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, St. John Eye Hospital Group, Nazareth Hospital, and the Hadassah Medical Organization. According to USAID, institutions based in Israel have received the most program funding in the Middle East region.

And you don't see the difference between a grant program intended to provide funds to private, non-profit, self-sustaining educational and medical institutions continuously identified as American for the purpose of spreading specific American culture abroad

and

a government which refuses to provide basic medical care to its citizens by withholding payments to hospitals which provide that care?

 

[Shusha]

...for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel.

Wait, so resettling persecuted refugees is BAD? How is that not a perfectly acceptable humanitarian cause?

 

[Coyote]

Here are some of the things US Aid to Israel goes to.

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It includes schools, hospitals, and refugee and migration assistance.

I didn't see anything about schools or hospitals. Can you direct me to that place in the summary?

I did see refugee and migration assistance. That would be assistance for foreigners arriving from other countries due to persecution or conflict. This is not aide to help Israelis -- its to help the foreign nationals who end up in Israel's care.

That is to help Israeli’s - it is for people immigrating to Israel. From that link:

Migration & Refugee Assistance
Since 1973, Israel has received grants from the State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account (MRA)67 to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. Funds are paid to the United Israel Appeal, a private philanthropic organization in the United States, which in turn transfers the funds to the Jewish Agency for Israel.68 Between 1973 and 1991, the United States gave about $460 million for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel. Annual amounts have varied from a low of $12 million to a high of $80 million, based at least partly on the number of Jews leaving the former Soviet Union and other areas for Israel.

If you look under U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It lists schools.

American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA)74
Through foreign operations appropriations legislation, Congress has funded the ASHA program as part of the overall Development Assistance (DA) appropriation to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). According to USAID, ASHA is designed to strengthen self-sustaining schools, libraries, and medical centers that best demonstrate American ideals and practices abroad. ASHA has been providing support to institutions in the Middle East since 1957, and a number of universities and hospitals in Israel have been recipients of ASHA grants. In FY2015 (the most recent year for which data are available), ASHA grant recipients in Israel included Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, St. John Eye Hospital Group, Nazareth Hospital, and the Hadassah Medical Organization. According to USAID, institutions based in Israel have received the most program funding in the Middle East region.

And you don't see the difference between a grant program intended to provide funds to private, non-profit, self-sustaining educational and medical institutions continuously identified as American for the purpose of spreading specific American culture abroad

and

a government which refuses to provide basic medical care to its citizens by withholding payments to hospitals which provide that care?

Point taken on the first.

On the second, can you provide an example of payment deliberately withheld?

 

[Coyote]

...for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel.

Wait, so resettling persecuted refugees is BAD? How is that not a perfectly acceptable humanitarian cause?

Did I say it was bad?

 

[Coyote]

We do? Maybe they don’t have the funds. Their economy is in shambles.

Maybe if Abbas, Arafat's widow and all other Palestinian leaders went to their banks and took out all the money they stole from all the aid which was to go to the people and the building of Gaza and the PA, the Palestinian economy would not be in shambles.

Millions and Millions put in their pockets instead of invested in infrastructure and other necessities.

That is a common problem with aid though, in many countries. Why single Palestine out?

Only the Palestinian leaders do certain things the other countries do not.

Those things are in the news all the time.

Actually...they don’t.

Do you even know what I was referring to?

And it is not in the news all the time?

Isn't it one of the reasons the US put an end to the aid to the Palestinians?

The only reason Trump ended aid to them was vindictive. He was pissed that they weren’t grateful sycophants after he threw them under the bus.

 

[Shusha]

Point taken on the first.

On the second, can you provide an example of payment deliberately withheld?

Um. The hospitals you posted about. The PA won't pay the bills they owe for those hospitals. For the care of their citizens.

Hang on, I'll find a link.

 

[Shusha]

The American funding joins 13 million euros transferred by the European Union, which jointly cover part of the debt owed by the Palestinian Authority to the hospitals. The money therefor does not fund hospitals in East Jerusalem, but patients in the West Bank....

The growing debt of the PA to the hospitals stands at 280 million shekels and heavily encumbers their performance. In recent years, nearly every hospital in East Jerusalem has fallen into financial troubles verging on bankruptcy, among other reasons, because of this debt.

Source

I've read better source, but can't find it at the moment. I'll post if I find it.

 

[Shusha]

...for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel.

Wait, so resettling persecuted refugees is BAD? How is that not a perfectly acceptable humanitarian cause?

Did I say it was bad?

You were complaining that Israel should not receive aide because there is no need. I think refugees is a perfectly legitimate need.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Here are some of the things US Aid to Israel goes to.

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It includes schools, hospitals, and refugee and migration assistance.

I didn't see anything about schools or hospitals. Can you direct me to that place in the summary?

I did see refugee and migration assistance. That would be assistance for foreigners arriving from other countries due to persecution or conflict. This is not aide to help Israelis -- its to help the foreign nationals who end up in Israel's care.

That is to help Israeli’s - it is for people immigrating to Israel. From that link:

Migration & Refugee Assistance
Since 1973, Israel has received grants from the State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account (MRA)67 to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. Funds are paid to the United Israel Appeal, a private philanthropic organization in the United States, which in turn transfers the funds to the Jewish Agency for Israel.68 Between 1973 and 1991, the United States gave about $460 million for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel. Annual amounts have varied from a low of $12 million to a high of $80 million, based at least partly on the number of Jews leaving the former Soviet Union and other areas for Israel.

If you look under U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It lists schools.

American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA)74
Through foreign operations appropriations legislation, Congress has funded the ASHA program as part of the overall Development Assistance (DA) appropriation to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). According to USAID, ASHA is designed to strengthen self-sustaining schools, libraries, and medical centers that best demonstrate American ideals and practices abroad. ASHA has been providing support to institutions in the Middle East since 1957, and a number of universities and hospitals in Israel have been recipients of ASHA grants. In FY2015 (the most recent year for which data are available), ASHA grant recipients in Israel included Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, St. John Eye Hospital Group, Nazareth Hospital, and the Hadassah Medical Organization. According to USAID, institutions based in Israel have received the most program funding in the Middle East region.

And you don't see the difference between a grant program intended to provide funds to private, non-profit, self-sustaining educational and medical institutions continuously identified as American for the purpose of spreading specific American culture abroad

and

a government which refuses to provide basic medical care to its citizens by withholding payments to hospitals which provide that care?

Point taken on the first.

On the second, can you provide an example of payment deliberately withheld?

US: Palestinians Should Pay Hospital Bills Instead of Terrorists

 

[Coyote]

...for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel.

Wait, so resettling persecuted refugees is BAD? How is that not a perfectly acceptable humanitarian cause?

Did I say it was bad?

You were complaining that Israel should not receive aide because there is no need. I think refugees is a perfectly legitimate need.

And Israel can not fund it herself?

I happen to think education is a legitimate need as well.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Arab hospital stops receiving patients over lack of PA funding

 

[Coyote]

Here are some of the things US Aid to Israel goes to.

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It includes schools, hospitals, and refugee and migration assistance.

I didn't see anything about schools or hospitals. Can you direct me to that place in the summary?

I did see refugee and migration assistance. That would be assistance for foreigners arriving from other countries due to persecution or conflict. This is not aide to help Israelis -- its to help the foreign nationals who end up in Israel's care.

That is to help Israeli’s - it is for people immigrating to Israel. From that link:

Migration & Refugee Assistance
Since 1973, Israel has received grants from the State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account (MRA)67 to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. Funds are paid to the United Israel Appeal, a private philanthropic organization in the United States, which in turn transfers the funds to the Jewish Agency for Israel.68 Between 1973 and 1991, the United States gave about $460 million for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel. Annual amounts have varied from a low of $12 million to a high of $80 million, based at least partly on the number of Jews leaving the former Soviet Union and other areas for Israel.

If you look under U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It lists schools.

American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA)74
Through foreign operations appropriations legislation, Congress has funded the ASHA program as part of the overall Development Assistance (DA) appropriation to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). According to USAID, ASHA is designed to strengthen self-sustaining schools, libraries, and medical centers that best demonstrate American ideals and practices abroad. ASHA has been providing support to institutions in the Middle East since 1957, and a number of universities and hospitals in Israel have been recipients of ASHA grants. In FY2015 (the most recent year for which data are available), ASHA grant recipients in Israel included Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, St. John Eye Hospital Group, Nazareth Hospital, and the Hadassah Medical Organization. According to USAID, institutions based in Israel have received the most program funding in the Middle East region.

And you don't see the difference between a grant program intended to provide funds to private, non-profit, self-sustaining educational and medical institutions continuously identified as American for the purpose of spreading specific American culture abroad

and

a government which refuses to provide basic medical care to its citizens by withholding payments to hospitals which provide that care?

Point taken on the first.

On the second, can you provide an example of payment deliberately withheld?

US: Palestinians Should Pay Hospital Bills Instead of Terrorists

I’m sorry but some of that sounds a hell of a lot like Trump Administration propaganda.

 

[Shusha]

And Israel can not fund it herself?

Hey. If you want to say that Israel is responsible for every single Israeli in the world and every single Jewish person, I have no beef with that.

But the equivalent would be that Palestine is responsible for every single Palestinian Arab in perpetuity. Bye-bye UNWRA.

But if your point is that aide for refugees should fall solely on the host countries I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

What standard did you want to make a single standard here?

 

[skye]

So much hatred towards Israel..... wow

 

[Indeependent]

So much hatred towards Israel..... wow

Liberals hate Jews...true story.

 

[Coyote]

Arab hospital stops receiving patients over lack of PA funding

So what happens to the people?

 

[Sixties Fan]

I didn't see anything about schools or hospitals. Can you direct me to that place in the summary?

I did see refugee and migration assistance. That would be assistance for foreigners arriving from other countries due to persecution or conflict. This is not aide to help Israelis -- its to help the foreign nationals who end up in Israel's care.

That is to help Israeli’s - it is for people immigrating to Israel. From that link:

Migration & Refugee Assistance
Since 1973, Israel has received grants from the State Department's Migration and Refugee Assistance account (MRA)67 to assist in the resettlement of migrants to Israel. Funds are paid to the United Israel Appeal, a private philanthropic organization in the United States, which in turn transfers the funds to the Jewish Agency for Israel.68 Between 1973 and 1991, the United States gave about $460 million for resettling Jewish refugees in Israel. Annual amounts have varied from a low of $12 million to a high of $80 million, based at least partly on the number of Jews leaving the former Soviet Union and other areas for Israel.

If you look under U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel

It lists schools.

American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA)74
Through foreign operations appropriations legislation, Congress has funded the ASHA program as part of the overall Development Assistance (DA) appropriation to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). According to USAID, ASHA is designed to strengthen self-sustaining schools, libraries, and medical centers that best demonstrate American ideals and practices abroad. ASHA has been providing support to institutions in the Middle East since 1957, and a number of universities and hospitals in Israel have been recipients of ASHA grants. In FY2015 (the most recent year for which data are available), ASHA grant recipients in Israel included Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, St. John Eye Hospital Group, Nazareth Hospital, and the Hadassah Medical Organization. According to USAID, institutions based in Israel have received the most program funding in the Middle East region.

And you don't see the difference between a grant program intended to provide funds to private, non-profit, self-sustaining educational and medical institutions continuously identified as American for the purpose of spreading specific American culture abroad

and

a government which refuses to provide basic medical care to its citizens by withholding payments to hospitals which provide that care?

Point taken on the first.

On the second, can you provide an example of payment deliberately withheld?

US: Palestinians Should Pay Hospital Bills Instead of Terrorists

I’m sorry but some of that sounds a hell of a lot like Trump Administration propaganda.

Can you find a reason as to why the PA should not be giving money the the hospitals, which instead end up in the hands of terrorists and their families?

It is a fact that the PA is not funding the hospitals they are responsible for .

So, why do they not fund them, as they are supposed to, so that the Palestinians will not suffer?

 

[Shusha]

Arab hospital stops receiving patients over lack of PA funding

So what happens to the people?

Like all other countries, they receive the care which is provided by their own governments in their own territory. Why is that a problem?

 

[Coyote]

And Israel can not fund it herself?

Hey. If you want to say that Israel is responsible for every single Israeli in the world and every single Jewish person, I have no beef with that.

But the equivalent would be that Palestine is responsible for every single Palestinian Arab in perpetuity. Bye-bye UNWRA.

But if your point is that aide for refugees should fall solely on the host countries I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

What standard did you want to make a single standard here?

You are talking about Immigrating to Israel from countries where they face persecution, not refugees. We are responsible for immigrants to our country. Shouldn’t Israel be?

You pointed out a number of times that Palestine should fund its own programs rather than get aid. Shouldn’t the same apply to Israel?