"Research" tells us what we should already know about partisanship

[sartre play]

It would be nice if both sides of the divide had a PREFERENCE for elected officials to meet in the middle, in the interest of a more United States of America..
Wonder how many of us posters still would prefer that elected officials make their policy choices at the expense of compromise

 

[Mac1958]

It would be nice if both sides of the divide had a PREFERENCE for elected officials to meet in the middle, in the interest of a more United States of America..
Wonder how many of us posters still would prefer that elected officials make their policy choices at the expense of compromise

From what I can tell, the ends (not sides, but ends) of the spectrum have no interest in compromise. They confuse compromise with capitulation. Not an option.

Therefore, they don't need to accurately understand the other side of the argument. Keeps things nice and simple, allows them to stay in their echo chamber.

And, the way our electoral system is set up, it's the ends of the spectrum with all the influence. If we choose not to change the system, well, that's our own fault.

 

[candycorn]

Therefore, they don't need to accurately understand the other side of the argument. Keeps things nice and simple, allows them to stay in their echo chamber.

Is it accurate to say that "conservatives" spend just as much in office as "liberals"?

 

[sparky]

Which is what they want, the more we the people fight each other, the more those in power can get away with. This division is not an accident, it is a coordinated effort by the two sides of the duopoly since 1992.

So back to my question from above: Do you think that MSNBC's Joy Reid & Rachel Maddow are presenting and reinforcing an accurate representation of the perspectives, life experiences, priorities and opinions of the GOP? Do you think the non-MAGA media does that?

So, back to the OP, unless a person (a) understands that and makes the effort to accurately understand the perspectives of the other, and (b) demonstrates to the other that they DO accurately understand them, communication will likely break down.

'Right' or 'left' in America is an illusion foisted upon us by those who do nor want us to realize the true dichotomy is up & down......

and if you're here reading this, there's a 99.99% you are in the 'down' category.

obviously, the way to keep you there is to have you squabbling over the crumbs left by the .001%, whom you'll never meet in this existence.

further, this is nothing new, our FF's were all wealthy aristocrats , who didn't want to share their piece of pie w/ England, only able to convince 3% of us back then that this was a bad way to run a country

yes, you read that right....3 forkin' %....

show me what's new under the sun folks.....

~S~

 

[Leo123]

Reading this article, it blew my mind to see that something so simple has been lost on us.

They were trying to figure out how to heal the ugly and increasing divide we're seeing this country. Wow, NO WAY, THAT'S gonna be COMPLICATED.

The terribly complicated answer? Take the time and make the effort to ACCURATELY understand the other side of the issue. Then, demonstrate to the other side that you understand. Demonstrate that you've paid enough attention to hear what they're actually saying, not what you're told they're saying. Gee. Magic. That's not a panacea, but it's a start. It keeps communication open and flowing.

Tell me: How much of that do we really see in Left Wing and Right Wing media nowadays?

Sadly, I think that something this simple and obvious may be beyond us at this point.

Why American Politics Is So Stuck — and What New Research Shows About How to Fix It

The more people identify with a party, the more likely they are to ascribe bad motives to the other side's policy goals.

www.politico.com

What was Biden saying when he sliced and diced Trump's EO's without telling anyone why? Joe single handedly cause our gas prices and the prices of goods and services to skyrocket. Apparently he didn't care to understand why we need affordable energy.

 

[Mac1958]

What was Biden saying when he sliced and diced Trump's EO's without telling anyone why? Joe single handedly cause our gas prices and the prices of goods and services to skyrocket. Apparently he didn't care to understand why we need affordable energy.

I don't know what has to do with the OP, but great.

 

[Mac1958]

Is it accurate to say that "conservatives" spend just as much in office as "liberals"?

I couldn't tell you offhand.

 

[Mac1958]

So, in my obviously quixotic effort to stick to the OP, let's review what this research study says:

One possible way to (begin to) address the destructive and increasing divisions that our now literally threatening our country -- assuming we are actually concerned about that -- is to address what the study calls "partisan trade-off bias", which tends to disengage people from constructive conversation. What can the average person do? Well, they have a pretty simple two step plan:

First, take the time and make the sincere effort to gain an accurate understanding of the views of those who disagree with us (helpful tip: you're surely not going to gain that understanding by confining your news and information consumption to your preferred Left Wing or Right Wing media).

Second, when in communication with someone who disagrees with you, demonstrate that you understand their side of the story by confirming you realize that (and how) your approach is not perfect, which might begin to break down the binary, one-or-the-other, either/or thought processes that plague us.

That's it. That's what the study says. I'm not suggesting that this is something that is going to work on an internet message board such as this. But judging from what I'm seeing here, perhaps we're just not interested in making improvements in this area, in real life. That would be bad news.

 

[Mac1958]

From the OP link:

To date, the political science literature has shown that political polarization leads partisans not only to dislike each other, but to see the other side increasingly as a threat to the country. Our identification of the partisan trade-off bias reveals a psychological tendency that might help to explain this perception of threat. After all, how can you get along with someone who you perceive as intentionally trying to do harm?

This is tribalism summed up. Until this changes, US vs THEM will be SOP…

It's nice that someone is actually focusing on the point of the thread, thanks.

 

[candycorn]

I couldn't tell you offhand.

If you cannot tell who the conservatives are (in my case they are the "other side"), how does one know who "the other side" is?

Getting an "accurate understanding" of those who disagree is fine if there was one monolithic ideology on the other side of the river but there simply isn't. Hence the last four "conservative" Presidents have left office with higher deficits than when they entered. So maybe the ideologies do not split down clearly defined fault lines??? Its difficult to get an accurate understanding when the target is constantly moving an presents itself in so many shades of falseness that it is hardly worth the effort since there is scant few areas to begin.

The Republican Party no longer lives in reality.

 

[Mac1958]

If you cannot tell who the conservatives are (in my case they are the "other side"), how does one know who "the other side" is?

Getting an "accurate understanding" of those who disagree is fine if there was one monolithic ideology on the other side of the river but there simply isn't. Hence the last four "conservative" Presidents have left office with higher deficits than when they entered. So maybe the ideologies do not split down clearly defined fault lines??? Its difficult to get an accurate understanding when the target is constantly moving an presents itself in so many shades of falseness that it is hardly worth the effort since there is scant few areas to begin.

The Republican Party no longer lives in reality.

If a person who disagrees with you can at least demonstrate that they accurately understand your side of the story, is that not at least slightly better than if they display pure ignorance of it?

 

[sparky]

Giving people a voice in the process does not mean they will change their minds about the value of the policy. But it does increase the chances that they will see the policy as a sincere attempt to solve problems rather than a form of hidden malice. That, in turn, can help lower the temperature and de-escalate the cycle of polarization. The same lesson holds for those of us who are not policymakers but ordinary citizens who want to have better conversations about politics. If you think you know what the other side’s real intentions are, think again. What you see as malice might be an unintended side effect. And if you want someone to give you the benefit of the doubt, put in the work of making them feel heard before you make yourself heard.

Polite, but woefully misleading.

we don't have a voice, save for howling in the ascii wilderness , prostitutued and perpetrated by partisan media no better than Pravda or Al Jazzera ....sadly they're becoming the best source for any real journalism, since Congress granted social media license to destroy the 1st.

And that Congress does listen, but only to enable them to tell us all want we want to hear about 100000 page bills they'll pass w/out reading , much of which ends up counter productive if not diametrically opposed to it's title (Patriot Act)

But you THINK being a polite partisan helps this?

Sure, ok, let's throw out two obvious sound bytes that gained a world of partisan support

Hope and Change

MAGA

Americans were supposed to come together under each slogan, the reality being they were tools for division ,more shepeople , more national distress.......now the 'other side' was the boogeyman....

The real truth being America has always had a boogeyman

Go ahead, pick any conflict, you'll find they're actively using it to create partisans , because they'll cease to exist as a shill governance w/out them

Latest boogeyman is >_____________________<

Make my day......


~S~

 

[Mac-7]

If a person who disagrees with you can at least demonstrate that they accurately understand your side of the story, is that not at least slightly better than if they display pure ignorance of it?

And you are a good example of that

You claim to understand everything trump supporters are saying

Unfortunately you cant agree because you believe they are brain damaged servants of an evil man

And now you are wondering why those morons are not flocking to your door in gratitude?

 

[Mac1958]

Yes.... Except on some issues--NOT ALL OF THEM--the "accurate[ly] understand[ing]" is completely missing....issues such as...that Obama was born here, that Covid vaccines save lives, that Trump lost the election, and Trump was responsible for the 1/6/21 insurrection attempt that was done by Trump supporters seems to be missing.

I'm not talking about demonstrating THEIR accurate understanding, I'm talking about demonstrating YOUR or MY accurate understanding.

 

[sartre play]

Pointless to try and educate a closed mind, best we can do is not get caught up in the hate our self's. That said, I repeat one politicians words,( In America we have a right to be stupid.)

 

[Mac-7]

Last time I'll say this:

If you want to back up your words, you can challenge me to describe what I believe are the opinions either end of the spectrum has on any given issue(s). Since I have disagreements with both ends on virtually every issue, and because I pay attention, and because I ask a lot of questions in real life, that will be easy for me.

If you don't have the confidence to do that, it would be nice if you would stop trolling my thread and (as usual) making everything about me. You folks sure love avoiding my topics and changing the subject to me. While that's obviously a good sign, my ego doesn't need the rub. And it's terribly boring.

I will simply cut and paste this post when trolls continue to post to me on this thread.

You post your opinions and I’ll post mine

And one of my opinions is that your opinions are far more critical of trump voters than toward biden voters such as yourself

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I'm not talking about demonstrating THEIR accurate understanding, I'm talking about demonstrating YOUR or MY accurate understanding.

All either you or candycorn understand is what team you are on.

This thread is downright Orwellian in your deliberate attempt to posit your own extremely dogmatic fealty to the democrat party as being as the answer to a country divided.

Anybody who has used the term "Trumpster" thousands of times over to describe anybody who does not march in complete lockstep with his by-the-book D.N.C. politics has no business talking about others dividing us.

 

[Jets]

Pointless to try and educate a closed mind, best we can do is not get caught up in the hate our self's. That said, I repeat one politicians words,( In America we have a right to be stupid.)

Spot on!

 

[Pellinore]

Reading this article, it blew my mind to see that something so simple has been lost on us.

They were trying to figure out how to heal the ugly and increasing divide we're seeing this country. Wow, NO WAY, THAT'S gonna be COMPLICATED.

The terribly complicated answer? Take the time and make the effort to ACCURATELY understand the other side of the issue. Then, demonstrate to the other side that you understand. Demonstrate that you've paid enough attention to hear what they're actually saying, not what you're told they're saying. Gee. Magic. That's not a panacea, but it's a start. It keeps communication open and flowing.

Tell me: How much of that do we really see in Left Wing and Right Wing media nowadays?

Sadly, I think that something this simple and obvious may be beyond us at this point.

Why American Politics Is So Stuck — and What New Research Shows About How to Fix It

The more people identify with a party, the more likely they are to ascribe bad motives to the other side's policy goals.

www.politico.com

I would argue that this approach works fine, if we assume that each side has equal legitimacy.

For example, when debating whether to concentrate on offense or defense in football, this system works. If, however, the 'offense' side gets overtaken by a contingent advocating a six-tight end spread, dual quarterbacks, and never punting, then demonstrating understanding and listening to their schemes will only lead to this obviously foolish plan being considered equally legitimate as tried and tested defensive schemes. Then, everyone gets frustrated, people stop watching, and the sport dwindles away.

You have been comparing the views of MSNBC and FOX throughout this thread, which is fine, but the right-wing media picture includes a lot more than FOX. I would encourage you to also include the likes of Newsmax and OAN, whose views are indicative of the even farther, extreme right who now dominate the right wing of politics, and who have a lot more legitimacy now than they had even five years ago. There are no equivalent far-left outlets with anywhere near such popularity.

When a moderate tries to understand an extreme, it gives the extreme legitimacy it shouldn't have. In that case, trying to empathize actually harms the whole system.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Reading this article, it blew my mind to see that something so simple has been lost on us.

You should speak for yourself and not others. Respectfully speaking...