Everyone agrees that abotion to save the mother's life should be legal-------and it is in every state. Your post is bullshit.
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Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. Their failed arguments are examined here:
- Thread starter NotfooledbyW
- Start date
could you please post the language in the constitution that says that? or from the declaration of independence, or any other founding document. How about abortion stats from 1776 or any year in that century? The founders did not think abortion was an acceptable medical practice. Stop lying.The failure of your argument is exemplified by the use of “should be unacceptable” because abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded.
NotfooledbyW
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I did not say a word about it English common law being specifically addressed in the Constitution. Who are you arguing with?could you please post the language in the constitution that says that?
trying to get you to back up your claims with hard facts, you said abortion was supported by the founders------------how and when?I did not say a word about it English common law being specifically addressed in the Constitution. Who are you arguing with?
NotfooledbyW
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The failure of your argument is exemplified by the use of “should be unacceptable” because abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded.
you said abortion was supported by the founders-
As you can see above - I stated quite clearly:
“abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded”
Why did you lie?
NotfooledbyW
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Redfish said: The founders did not think abortion was an acceptable medical practice. Stop lying. rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #482
I can cite Common Law. What can you cite besides wishful thinking?
NotfooledbyW cited: The born alive rule was originally a principle at common law in England that was carried to the United States and other former colonies of the British Empire. First formulated by William Staunford, it was later set down by Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England. It follows the language used for cases of murder in English law, identifying three salient characteristics: a reasonable creature, in rerum natura (in natural being), and in the King's peace.[2] Coke says: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe, or if a man beat her, whereby the child dyeth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is great misprision, and no murder; but if he childe be born alive and dyeth of the potion, battery, or other cause, this is murder; for in law it is accounted a reasonable creature, in rerum natura, when it is born alive.[3][4]
Born alive rule - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org nf.23.04.25 #11,963
nf.23.11.28 #486 to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #482
I can cite Common Law. What can you cite besides wishful thinking?
NotfooledbyW cited: The born alive rule was originally a principle at common law in England that was carried to the United States and other former colonies of the British Empire. First formulated by William Staunford, it was later set down by Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England. It follows the language used for cases of murder in English law, identifying three salient characteristics: a reasonable creature, in rerum natura (in natural being), and in the King's peace.[2] Coke says: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe, or if a man beat her, whereby the child dyeth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is great misprision, and no murder; but if he childe be born alive and dyeth of the potion, battery, or other cause, this is murder; for in law it is accounted a reasonable creature, in rerum natura, when it is born alive.[3][4]
Born alive rule - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org nf.23.04.25 #11,963
nf.23.11.28 #486 to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #482
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BS, WTF does the founding of western civilization not have to do with the founding of this nation? (and its founders)As you can see above - I stated quite clearly:
“abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded”
Why did you lie?
you can't even keep your own claims straight, typical liberal, lies and then lies about the lie.
ScorpioRising007
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Abstinence is an unreal expectation of women. Women should have the right to have just as much sex just as men without being shamed. A man has an unfair advantage, afterward he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant and it is easy to ditch out of responsibility if she does get pregnant. This unfairly discriminates against women. Women are told to be abstinent to avoid pregnancy, yet men are encouraged to be macho and score.Dont spread your legs to any Tom, Dick, or Harry and you wont have to worry about carrying a baby. Abstinence works, but then most Democrats couldnt get laid then.
The realistic thing is for society to accept abortion as acceptable, morally and lawfully. As long as it is in the women it is not a living human being, it is just a clump of cells.
NotfooledbyW
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Redfish said: “horseshit, your side is screaming for segregation, reparations, abortion on demand as birth control, defunding the police, kowtowing to China. You fools are destroying this country and you are too stupid to realize it.” rvdfvsh.23.04.04 #8,117
NotfooledbyW said: As you can see above - I stated quite clearly: • • • “abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded”
nf.23.11.28 #485
Redfish said: BS, WTF does the founding of western civilization not have to do with the founding of this nation? (and its founders) rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487
In response to POST rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487 please take note Saint Redfish that I used the term “liberal” to define “Western Liberal Civilization” in my POST nf.23.11.28 #485 .
Therefore I have acknowledged the practical knowledge that the American founding generation has everything to do with founding Western Liberal Civilization as we know it.
And that founding generation “accepted” that women found ways to end gestation when they figured out they were pregnant. Inducing an abortion was not a crime. There was no Catholic hysteria over the life of Baby Fetus because there were barely any Catholics in the white Protestant Colonies and colonial institutions.
And English Common Law on permissible abortion prior to quickening was the accepted civil society norm, and I produced the following historical fact to prove it. MAGA must ignore such realities I have come to learn.
My POST nf.23.04.25 #11,963 makes it clear the Framers gave we Americans “personhood” at birth and not the Catholic “personhood” at conception. Besides, the latter is an absurd idea anyway.
NotfooledbyW cited: The born alive rule was originally a principle at common law in England that was carried to the United States and other former colonies of the British Empire. First formulated by William Staunford, it was later set down by Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England. It follows the language used for cases of murder in English law, identifying three salient characteristics: a reasonable creature, in rerum natura (in natural being), and in the King's peace.[2] Coke says: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe, or if a man beat her, whereby the child dyeth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is great misprision, and no murder; but if he childe be born alive and dyeth of the potion, battery, or other cause, this is murder; for in law it is accounted a reasonable creature, in rerum natura, when it is born alive.[3][4]
Born alive rule - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org nf.23.04.25 #11,963
nf.23.11.29 #489
to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487
NotfooledbyW said: As you can see above - I stated quite clearly: • • • “abortion was accepted when the American bastion of western liberal civilization was founded”
nf.23.11.28 #485
Redfish said: BS, WTF does the founding of western civilization not have to do with the founding of this nation? (and its founders) rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487
In response to POST rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487 please take note Saint Redfish that I used the term “liberal” to define “Western Liberal Civilization” in my POST nf.23.11.28 #485 .
Therefore I have acknowledged the practical knowledge that the American founding generation has everything to do with founding Western Liberal Civilization as we know it.
And that founding generation “accepted” that women found ways to end gestation when they figured out they were pregnant. Inducing an abortion was not a crime. There was no Catholic hysteria over the life of Baby Fetus because there were barely any Catholics in the white Protestant Colonies and colonial institutions.
And English Common Law on permissible abortion prior to quickening was the accepted civil society norm, and I produced the following historical fact to prove it. MAGA must ignore such realities I have come to learn.
My POST nf.23.04.25 #11,963 makes it clear the Framers gave we Americans “personhood” at birth and not the Catholic “personhood” at conception. Besides, the latter is an absurd idea anyway.
NotfooledbyW cited: The born alive rule was originally a principle at common law in England that was carried to the United States and other former colonies of the British Empire. First formulated by William Staunford, it was later set down by Edward Coke in his Institutes of the Laws of England. It follows the language used for cases of murder in English law, identifying three salient characteristics: a reasonable creature, in rerum natura (in natural being), and in the King's peace.[2] Coke says: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe, or if a man beat her, whereby the child dyeth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is great misprision, and no murder; but if he childe be born alive and dyeth of the potion, battery, or other cause, this is murder; for in law it is accounted a reasonable creature, in rerum natura, when it is born alive.[3][4]
Born alive rule - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org nf.23.04.25 #11,963
nf.23.11.29 #489
to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #487
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the problem is that it is not just a clump of cells, it is an unborn human being, and killing it is murder under most circumstances, I think abortion should be legal in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. otherwise don't screw, (or use reliable protection). if you aren't prepared to give birthAbstinence is an unreal expectation of women. Women should have the right to have just as much sex just as men without being shamed. A man has an unfair advantage, afterward he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant and it is easy to ditch out of responsibility if she does get pregnant. This unfairly discriminates against women. Women are told to be abstinent to avoid pregnancy, yet men are encouraged to be macho and score.
The realistic thing is for society to accept abortion as acceptable, morally and lawfully. As long as it is in the women it is not a living human being, it is just a clump of cells.
Mikeoxenormous
Diamond Member
And then everyone wonders why society has gone to hell in a hand basket. It all goes back to that "FREE LOVE, DRUGS and ROCK N ROLL".Abstinence is an unreal expectation of women. Women should have the right to have just as much sex just as men without being shamed. A man has an unfair advantage, afterward he doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant and it is easy to ditch out of responsibility if she does get pregnant. This unfairly discriminates against women. Women are told to be abstinent to avoid pregnancy, yet men are encouraged to be macho and score.
The realistic thing is for society to accept abortion as acceptable, morally and lawfully. As long as it is in the women it is not a living human being, it is just a clump of cells.
NotfooledbyW
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Redfish said: The founders did not think abortion was an acceptable medical practice. rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #484
ScorpioRising007 said: The realistic thing is for society to accept abortion as acceptable, morally and lawfully. scrprsngnnn.23.11.29
In Dobbs v Jackson the state of Mississippi had three main arguments AB&C.
In {B} Mississippi argued that “liberty” as written in the Fourteenth Amendment only implicates fundamental rights that are “deeply rooted in U.S history and tradition.” see POST nf.23.11.27 #448
Saint Redfish in POST rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #484 is completely out of truth as far as what was “deeply rooted in U.S. history and tradition during the founding generation and leading up to 1776. See POST nf.23.11.29 #489
In 1780 per When abortion wasn’t a legal issue — Harvard Gazette
“ pregnancy, birthing, child care, early childhood, and infant care was a landscape of women, their neighbors, and their midwives” See Post nf.23.11.26 #401
Women handled everything including abortion assistance and men stayed out of it. That is what we need today. Get the sanctimonious white Christian nationalist lying white Republican males and their appointed Catholic judges out of it. Thats what they did in Ohio. And it’s what they need to do in Texas Florida Alabama because letting women handle it is fucking “deeply rooted in U.S history and tradition.”
So get fucking white males and female-phobic Catholics out of women’s deeply rooted reproductive business 100 percent!
nf.23.11.29 #492
to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #484
ScorpioRising007 said: The realistic thing is for society to accept abortion as acceptable, morally and lawfully. scrprsngnnn.23.11.29
In Dobbs v Jackson the state of Mississippi had three main arguments AB&C.
In {B} Mississippi argued that “liberty” as written in the Fourteenth Amendment only implicates fundamental rights that are “deeply rooted in U.S history and tradition.” see POST nf.23.11.27 #448
Saint Redfish in POST rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #484 is completely out of truth as far as what was “deeply rooted in U.S. history and tradition during the founding generation and leading up to 1776. See POST nf.23.11.29 #489
In 1780 per When abortion wasn’t a legal issue — Harvard Gazette
“ pregnancy, birthing, child care, early childhood, and infant care was a landscape of women, their neighbors, and their midwives” See Post nf.23.11.26 #401
Women handled everything including abortion assistance and men stayed out of it. That is what we need today. Get the sanctimonious white Christian nationalist lying white Republican males and their appointed Catholic judges out of it. Thats what they did in Ohio. And it’s what they need to do in Texas Florida Alabama because letting women handle it is fucking “deeply rooted in U.S history and tradition.”
So get fucking white males and female-phobic Catholics out of women’s deeply rooted reproductive business 100 percent!
nf.23.11.29 #492
to rvdfvsh.23.11.28 #484
NotfooledbyW
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Mikeoxenormous said: And then everyone wonders why society has gone to hell in a hand basket. It all goes back to that "FREE LOVE, DRUGS and ROCK N ROLL". mkxnrms.23.03.29 #491
Your “everyone wonders” is the sociological subset of the US population commonly referred to as the “angry white male” There are two root causes for your sanctimonious anger and depressing worldview:
{1) The introduction of ‘the pill’ created sexual and gender freedom which enabled women to declare independence from white neanderthal cave life and white male dominated Christianity.
(2) The Civil Rights Acts and MLK’s opposition to the Vietnam War through Black Churches in the former Confederate South.
Nothing is good in your life except a billionaire shyster telling the entire world that Phyllis Schlafly males and beerbellied white males and billionaires of course are who made America Great.
Credit Pool photo by Lisa Johnston | St. Louis Review
Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and his wife, Melania Trump, pause at the casket of Phyllis Schlafly before a funeral Mass on Saturday.
Mourners, passersby and Donald Trump remember Phyllis Schlafly
"In all of her battles, she never strayed from the one guiding principle. She was for America, and it was always, always America First," Trump said. "She never stopped fighting for the fundamental idea that the American people { nf: code for angry white males} ought to have their needs come before anything or anyone else."
nf.23.11.30 #493Schlafly’s endorsement of Trump in the Republican primary caused a split within the Eagle Forum.
to mkxnrms.23.03.29 #491
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What group of humans can give birth and how can others justifiably enforce their will on this minority?
NotfooledbyW
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MAGA Republican led by Neanderthal Mike Johnson in a 6000 year old universe.What group of humans can give birth and how can others justifiably enforce their will on this minority?
NotfooledbyW
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Votto said: Trump pissed me off when he made fun of DeSantis for his abortion law. • ¥ • Think about this for a second, Trump put on SCOTUS justices to overturn Roe, and thus give it to the states, states like Florida to decide for themselves.. It is perhaps his biggest legacy as a President, and as such, will forever be hated by the Left. But then he inexplicably drives a nail in the hearts of his supporters by entertaining a federal law to allow abortion at a certain age, much like how Roe was constructed. It is not like he will get any votes from the Left for his change of heart. • ¥¥ • What an idiot. vvttv.23.12.06 #10
Mikeoxenormous said: And then everyone wonders why society has gone to hell in a hand basket. It all goes back to that "FREE LOVE, DRUGS and ROCK N ROLL". mkxnrms.23.03.29 #491
Can you tell me Saint Votto how DeSantis’ six week abortion ban corrects one single societal ill that allowing abortion at a certain age causes nationwide and bothers you and Saint Mikeoxenormous as much as I see it does to religious conservatives like you.
nf.23.12.07 #496
to vvttv.23.12.06 #10
Mikeoxenormous said: And then everyone wonders why society has gone to hell in a hand basket. It all goes back to that "FREE LOVE, DRUGS and ROCK N ROLL". mkxnrms.23.03.29 #491
Can you tell me Saint Votto how DeSantis’ six week abortion ban corrects one single societal ill that allowing abortion at a certain age causes nationwide and bothers you and Saint Mikeoxenormous as much as I see it does to religious conservatives like you.
nf.23.12.07 #496
to vvttv.23.12.06 #10
Stormy Daniels
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Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women.
I don't believe Republicans really want to force women to be pregnant. I think that mostly it's that Republican men really love when a woman swallows, and they figure the best way to make that happen more often is to make abortion illegal.
Libby von H
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What an ignorant fool you are
THis represents millions of Democrats
Democrats for Life
https://www.democratsforlife.org
We are the preeminent national organization for whole life Democrats, promoting whole-life issues that protect human life at all of its stages.
THis represents millions of Democrats
DFLA - Pro-Life for the Whole Life - Democrats For Life of ...
Democrats for Life
https://www.democratsforlife.org
We are the preeminent national organization for whole life Democrats, promoting whole-life issues that protect human life at all of its stages.
Libby von H
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You piss off the Founders by your badmouthing religion to support killing babiesVotto said: Trump pissed me off when he made fun of DeSantis for his abortion law. • ¥ • Think about this for a second, Trump put on SCOTUS justices to overturn Roe, and thus give it to the states, states like Florida to decide for themselves.. It is perhaps his biggest legacy as a President, and as such, will forever be hated by the Left. But then he inexplicably drives a nail in the hearts of his supporters by entertaining a federal law to allow abortion at a certain age, much like how Roe was constructed. It is not like he will get any votes from the Left for his change of heart. • ¥¥ • What an idiot. vvttv.23.12.06 #10
Mikeoxenormous said: And then everyone wonders why society has gone to hell in a hand basket. It all goes back to that "FREE LOVE, DRUGS and ROCK N ROLL". mkxnrms.23.03.29 #491
Can you tell me Saint Votto how DeSantis’ six week abortion ban corrects one single societal ill that allowing abortion at a certain age causes nationwide and bothers you and Saint Mikeoxenormous as much as I see it does to religious conservatives like you.
nf.23.12.07 #496
to vvttv.23.12.06 #10
MAYBE YOU ARE A FOOL, AND BECAUSE A FOOL, AN EVIL FOOL
In his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."
NotfooledbyW
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Republicans
Stormy Daniels in #497 said: I don't believe Republicans really want to force women to be pregnant. strmydnls.23.12.07 #497
Republicans want to force full term gestation on women “if” they get pregnant.
nf.23.12.14 #500
to strmydnls.23.12.07 #497
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