Republicans fail to make any rational argument why society must force full term gestation on all women. Their failed arguments are examined here:

[DukeU]

I tell you asshole holy-rollers, that you should stop violating people's basic human rights. Me telling you that isn't violating your rights. You should've never had the right to force a woman to remain pregnant, especially when you're not even trying to help her when she gives birth. You want to force women to remain pregnant, bearing all of the risk and cost of pregnancy, while stripping women from having access to the resources that they need to properly raise their children. You pro-lifers are pro-death.

Like I said.

You want people to stop exercising their rights.....Freedom of speech.

What's the difference??

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So ending their lives isn’t murder? Why?

Because murder is an unlawful killing. In states where abortion is legal it is not an unlawful killing. It is a homicide.

 

[BluesLegend]

Republicans fail to make any rational argument​

^^^ the mother of all Dem projections.

 

[Slyhunter]

It's murder according to your religion, but many people disagree with you. I don't believe a zygote, embryo, or half-brained fetus is a human being. I don't reduce human beings to that, I believe there has to be more in place, for there to be a human being. As far as women having sex, that's a natural act, which in a society and culture like ours, is quite difficult to avoid. You can't expect everyone to behave like a monk or nun. People have sex because they feel they have to. Like eating, or going to the bathroom. People feel they have to have sex. Nonetheless, a woman should have sovereignty over her reproductive system or her uterus and the government shouldn't prevent them from ending their pregnancies early.

I am Agnostic. I believe from a scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.
It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex just because it's "fun." Everyone should be responsible for the consequences of their own actions.
People cannot control their wants, they can control their actions.
An alcoholic thinks they have to drink. A person attracted to young kids thinks they have to perform an illegal act. A druggie thinks they have to do drugs to escape from the world. A smoker gets to the point where they smoke not for joy, but to escape the withdrawal pains between cigarettes. Lots of people use their desires as an excuse for their actions. But, we are not animals. We control our actions despite our wants or desires.

You are going to reply in anger because I compared hetro sex with Pedro sex. They are both desires. They both have unwelcomed consequences. The fact that one is illegal, and the other isn't, doesn't change those facts, or the fact that they both have unwelcomed consequences.

Replying in anger is another form of acting on your feelings. Another action that sometimes has consequences, and therefore you should use reason and intellect instead.

 

[Slyhunter]

I’m not, I’m for self defense and hamas is killing kids in Gaza.

You have no clue how life functions

He'll reply that they are killing civilians, some of whom are kids, in their self-defense. He believes, or will state, any form of self-defense that kills an innocent is just as bad as Hamas. Furthermore, he ignores the fact that if you stop from defending your country due to the consequences of collateral damage then the evil guys, Hamas, always wins the battles.

Even during WWII we killed a lot of civilians, including children, and had we stopped because of that Hitler would still be in charge.

 

[Slyhunter]

I never mentioned the Bible. You did. Why? Could it be because without religion as your crutch you have no worthwhile opinion. Which is precisely why you fail to mention any points I have made.

Unless a woman is widowed or abandoned, she should not have her support come from the government. Take the children away. Anything else rewards her for her own poor choices. That is an incentive to engage in even more poor choices.

No one forces a woman to be pregnant. It's a biological function. Engage in behavior A, the biological result is pregnancy B. Spay her. It's the only permanent solution.

If you truly feel that people are so compelled to have sex that they have no control over their urges, this is a sickness, it deserves its own thread.

You shouldn't use the word, abandoned, They are all, abandoned.

 

[Slyhunter]

There is one good reason for abortion, I think. They tend to be done by those milking governmental benefits, and probably vote Democrat, and their offspring probably would too. Killing their fetuses removes future Democrats from the equation.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I am Agnostic. I believe from a scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.
It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex just because it's "fun."p

I am a rational theist. I believe from a rational scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.

It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex. So good for you for living up to that standard. But shit happens in life. If that shit causes no harm to you or the maintenance of law and order in a secular free society there is no need for responsible individuals such as yourself to force law abiding others to be controlled by government ever.

 

[initforme]

Does anybody here buy into the childfree by choice couples are hurting America bs?

 

[JohnDB]

Aside from the immorality of Abortion....

Abortion is a heavily nuanced situation. It needs definition and legislation and not legislated by the courts.

The court systems in America cannot make legislation, they only interpret legislation. And the current situation since 1960's was that abortion was made law by the courts.

But since that time, test tube babies, in vitro fertilization, and snowflake babies have come about. And if it were a catholic choice all of that now would become impossible to perform due to the inefficiencies in that procedure.

So....now each state gets to legislate the many nuances of abortions, or other issues of medical attention, in each state as they see fit to do so.

In Tennessee, diet pills and medications are still illegal and that has saved the residents there from all the many diet pill frauds that have been perpetrated by the pharmaceutical giants over the years. Because it's a STATE'S RIGHTS ISSUE and not Federal.
Abortion is no different. If a state has restrictive laws and there's a problem arising from it there's LOTs of assistance available to them to redraft their laws to make their citizens safe from rhetoric induced fear or wackanoodle public prosecutors and judges.

In spite of the fear propaganda, less than 1% of ALL abortions are medically necessary. The rest are all elective.

Gotta go with the facts on this. Because emotions are high. Just because the infants and unborn cannot speak doesn't mean that they should not have an advocate.
If a drunk or stoned driver injures a pregnant woman to where they kill her planned unborn baby....wouldn't people demand justice for the soon to be mother? Especially since the baby has a name and a nursery all prepared in her home?

There's no difference between the two.

 

[JohnDB]

Does anybody here buy into the childfree by choice couples are hurting America bs?

Yes....yes I do. Because it's not just all about me. It's about the next generation and those that come after me. They need to have a moral Fibre set out for them to be at peace with themselves and the world.

Lawlessness is chaos and death. EVERY society that does not place a high high value on human and other life dies. We have a LOT of evidence proving it from failed societies and cultures. The USA is unique in that its the longest running society and culture in world history.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

If a drunk or stoned driver injures a pregnant woman to where they kill her planned unborn baby....wouldn't people demand justice for the soon to be mother? Especially since the baby has a name and a nursery all prepared in her home?

There's no difference between the two.

A drunk or stoned driver is responsible for the death of the mother and for the death of the fetus.. That’s a no-brainer.. The drunk or stoned driver who kills any human on a public roadway is committing harm to society and if left unpunished without trial, and conviction, would lead to a breakdown of civil order.

When a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy in a safe medica environment or with pills, the procedure is not done in public. It is a private medical affair and it will not and has not and never has caused the breakdown in civil law and order. Never has harm come to the general public. Never.

To restrict a woman’s access to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness when her actions caused no harm to the public Harm to the public. harm to freedom the individual.

The government has no business unless she causes harm to civil law and order..

That’s the truth, and I see no one refute it head on.

 

[initforme]

Yes....yes I do. Because it's not just all about me. It's about the next generation and those that come after me. They need to have a moral Fibre set out for them to be at peace with themselves and the world.

Lawlessness is chaos and death. EVERY society that does not place a high high value on human and other life dies. We have a LOT of evidence proving it from failed societies and cultures. The USA is unique in that its the longest running society and culture in world history.

Child free by choice doesn't lead to lawlessness

 

[jc456]

He'll reply that they are killing civilians, some of whom are kids, in their self-defense. He believes, or will state, any form of self-defense that kills an innocent is just as bad as Hamas. Furthermore, he ignores the fact that if you stop from defending your country due to the consequences of collateral damage then the evil guys, Hamas, always wins the battles.

Even during WWII we killed a lot of civilians, including children, and had we stopped because of that Hitler would still be in charge.

correct, evil that hides behind kids are the ones at fault, and no one else. Hamas could end this today, Release the hostages then? holding the hostages encourages the effort by Israel. All on Hamas.

 

[jc456]

I am a rational theist. I believe from a rational scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.

It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex. So good for you for living up to that standard. But shit happens in life. If that shit causes no harm to you or the maintenance of law and order in a secular free society there is no need for responsible individuals such as yourself to force law abiding others to be controlled by government ever.

the pretzel you need to tie yourself up in to make a point is amazing. Killing another human is killing another human no matter what the scenario.

 

[jc456]

Aside from the immorality of Abortion....

Abortion is a heavily nuanced situation. It needs definition and legislation and not legislated by the courts.

The court systems in America cannot make legislation, they only interpret legislation. And the current situation since 1960's was that abortion was made law by the courts.

But since that time, test tube babies, in vitro fertilization, and snowflake babies have come about. And if it were a catholic choice all of that now would become impossible to perform due to the inefficiencies in that procedure.

So....now each state gets to legislate the many nuances of abortions, or other issues of medical attention, in each state as they see fit to do so.

In Tennessee, diet pills and medications are still illegal and that has saved the residents there from all the many diet pill frauds that have been perpetrated by the pharmaceutical giants over the years. Because it's a STATE'S RIGHTS ISSUE and not Federal.
Abortion is no different. If a state has restrictive laws and there's a problem arising from it there's LOTs of assistance available to them to redraft their laws to make their citizens safe from rhetoric induced fear or wackanoodle public prosecutors and judges.

In spite of the fear propaganda, less than 1% of ALL abortions are medically necessary. The rest are all elective.

Gotta go with the facts on this. Because emotions are high. Just because the infants and unborn cannot speak doesn't mean that they should not have an advocate.
If a drunk or stoned driver injures a pregnant woman to where they kill her planned unborn baby....wouldn't people demand justice for the soon to be mother? Especially since the baby has a name and a nursery all prepared in her home?

There's no difference between the two.

demofks use abortion as a contraceptive. And they want to talk about value of human life.

 

[jc456]

It's murder according to your religion,

it's murder per societal laws

but many people disagree with you.

so what?

I don't believe a zygote, embryo, or half-brained fetus is a human being.

it is.

I don't reduce human beings to that,

you're a pig

As far as women having sex, that's a natural act,

been that way since day one of existence, society stated that killing babies is illegal. Prove me wrong.

which in a society and culture like ours,

Our society history has been it's killing babies.

is quite difficult to avoid. You can't expect everyone to behave like a monk or nun. People have sex because they feel they have to. Like eating, or going to the bathroom. People feel they have to have sex. Nonetheless, a woman should have sovereignty over her reproductive system or her uterus and the government shouldn't prevent them from ending their pregnancies early.

using abortion as a contraceptive is not realistic.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There is one good reason for abortion, I think. They tend to be done by those milking governmental benefits, and probably vote Democrat, and their offspring probably would too. Killing their fetuses removes future Democrats from the equation.

That is a very good point which is why abortion laws should reflect this political reality. Abortion should not only be encouraged along with a sensible spay and neuter program, but having families among the responsible should also be encoursged.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I am Agnostic. I believe from a scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.
It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex just because it's "fun." Everyone should be responsible for the consequences of their own actions.
People cannot control their wants, they can control their actions.
An alcoholic thinks they have to drink. A person attracted to young kids thinks they have to perform an illegal act. A druggie thinks they have to do drugs to escape from the world. A smoker gets to the point where they smoke not for joy, but to escape the withdrawal pains between cigarettes. Lots of people use their desires as an excuse for their actions. But, we are not animals. We control our actions despite our wants or desires.

You are going to reply in anger because I compared hetro sex with Pedro sex. They are both desires. They both have unwelcomed consequences. The fact that one is illegal, and the other isn't, doesn't change those facts, or the fact that they both have unwelcomed consequences.

Replying in anger is another form of acting on your feelings. Another action that sometimes has consequences, and therefore you should use reason and intellect instead.

I am Agnostic. I believe from a scientific perspective, a fetus is more human than a pig or a dog.

Something being "more human" doesn't make it a human being.

It is irresponsible to have unproductive sex just because it's "fun."

You only have sex to reproduce? You're 60 years old, have you become a monk now? Do you live in a monastery?

Everyone should be responsible for the consequences of their own actions.
People cannot control their wants, they can control their actions.

Exactly, so if you force a woman to remain pregnant using the government, then you're responsible for the welfare of that woman. She could've very easily, early in gestation, when all she had in HER BODY, was a zygote or embryo, ended her pregnancy. It's her body and pregnancy, and you shouldn't have the right to force her to remain pregnant for nine months, bearing all of the risks and cost of pregnancy. She can easily abort pregnancy, early, before there's anywhere near a chance of what she has in her body being a human being or in any way conscious and able to experience pain. The actual human being in the equation here is the pregnant woman, not the zygote or embryo, or even a half-brained, unconscious fetus.

A woman's sovereignty over her reproductive organs and system should not be violated, or in any way compromised by your opinion that a zygote or embryo, a half-brained fetus is a full-fledged human being. Even the Bible and Jewish law, disagree with Evangelicals and Catholics on their obsession with fetuses. The Hebrew Bible makes a clear distinction between fetuses and the human beings who carry them. A woman's life is orders of magnitude higher in value than that of a fetus, not to speak of a mere zygote or embryo.

More, you self-righteous, holy-rollers, are the first ones to shrug your shoulders like this:

​

When the US government or Israel kills children abroad. Here you are crying your crocodile tears over fetuses in the wombs of strangers while shrugging your shoulders over dead "A-rab" babies, those baby "sand n#$grs", those brown people you don't give a shit about. But we're supposed to believe your concern for fetuses in the wombs of strangers you apparently don't give a rat's ass about, is genuine and worthy of our attention.

You right-wing Republican conservatives are the first ones to defund government social programs that assist single mothers in properly raising their children. Foodstamps, rental assistance, Medicaid, child daycare and after-school programs, school lunch stipends, and financial aid and grants to help single mothers acquire an education, marketable skills, job training..etc. You Republicans defund all of those programs, depriving the single mothers and their babies (that you supposedly care about so much), access to those valuable resources.

This leads to this:

And this:

​

If you're going to force women to remain pregnant for nine months and give birth, you better have the infrastructure to help these women and their babies. You know, those fetuses in the wombs of strangers that you supposedly care so much about, they become babies and are born to those women that you're forcing to remain pregnant, and they need help, as in access to resources. Stop defunding programs, that serve them, helping them get on their feet and become financially stable and fully employed..etc. You Republicans are the champions of fetuses, but when those fetuses become actual babies, in the world, with us, you flip them the finger. You tell their single, impoverished mothers to go to hell.

"Go to hell you whore! Keep your legs closed slut! Now you're being forced to raise a child without any resources, yeah! Suffer bitch! If you don't raise that baby right, we'll throw his ass in prison when he's older! Yeah!"

​

An alcoholic thinks they have to drink.

Comparing one's sexual drive or need for sex with alcoholism is just stupid. Dumb.

A person attracted to young kids thinks they have to perform an illegal act. A druggie thinks they have to do drugs to escape from the world. A smoker gets to the point where they smoke not for joy, but to escape the withdrawal pains between cigarettes. Lots of people use their desires as an excuse for their actions. But, we are not animals. We control our actions despite our wants or desires.

More stupid, irrelevant comparisons.

You are going to reply in anger because I compared hetro sex with Pedro sex. They are both desires. They both have unwelcomed consequences. The fact that one is illegal, and the other isn't, doesn't change those facts, or the fact that they both have unwelcomed consequences.

All desires aren't the same nor have the same cause.

Replying in anger is another form of acting on your feelings. Another action that sometimes has consequences, and therefore you should use reason and intellect instead.

You should follow your own advice.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Like I said.

You want people to stop exercising their rights.....Freedom of speech.

What's the difference??

You can say whatever stupid shit you want, I'm not trying to stop you. What you shouldn't be able to do is force women to remain pregnant, especially early in their pregnancies, when all they have in their wombs is an embryo or half-brained fetus that's not even conscious. That you shouldn't have the right to do, but talk your stupid crap, which I will defend. I will defend your right to say all of the stupid shit you want. I agree with your right, to speak crap, but not to violate the reproductive rights of women.