Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted

[Vel]

Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Honduras' new leaders defied growing global pressure on Monday to reverse a military coup, arguing that they had followed their constitution in removing a leftist president who attacked it.
Presidents from around Latin America were gathering in Nicaragua for meetings Monday on how to reverse the first coup in Central America in at least 16 years.
The Obama administration and European governments denounced the coup. U.S. officials said they were working for the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya and European officials offered to mediate talks between the two sides.

"Zelaya was seized by soldiers and hustled aboard a plane to Costa Rica early Sunday, just hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of the courts and Congress, and which his opponents said was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.
Micheletti said he would only serve out the end of Zelaya's term, which ends in January following presidential elections set for November.
"We respect everybody and we only ask that they respect us and leave us in peace because the country is headed toward free and transparent general elections in November," Micheletti said.
His designated foreign minister, Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."


Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


Hmmm. Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama are on the same side of this issue. That's kind of scary.

 

[Oddball]

Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."

That's pretty much the story I got from a friend who has property in Honduras, hence a huge stake in this.

Little wonder that Little Lord Obammyroy supports a leftist despot, who was seeking to usurp the Honduran constitution.

 

[Nik]

Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Honduras' new leaders defied growing global pressure on Monday to reverse a military coup, arguing that they had followed their constitution in removing a leftist president who attacked it.
Presidents from around Latin America were gathering in Nicaragua for meetings Monday on how to reverse the first coup in Central America in at least 16 years.
The Obama administration and European governments denounced the coup. U.S. officials said they were working for the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya and European officials offered to mediate talks between the two sides.

"Zelaya was seized by soldiers and hustled aboard a plane to Costa Rica early Sunday, just hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of the courts and Congress, and which his opponents said was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.
Micheletti said he would only serve out the end of Zelaya's term, which ends in January following presidential elections set for November.
"We respect everybody and we only ask that they respect us and leave us in peace because the country is headed toward free and transparent general elections in November," Micheletti said.
His designated foreign minister, Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."


Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


Hmmm. Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama are on the same side of this issue. That's kind of scary.

Most people don't favor military dictatorships. Its not really a controversial issue, except for some reason Dude is A OK with a military dictatorship here.

 

[Vel]

Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Honduras' new leaders defied growing global pressure on Monday to reverse a military coup, arguing that they had followed their constitution in removing a leftist president who attacked it.
Presidents from around Latin America were gathering in Nicaragua for meetings Monday on how to reverse the first coup in Central America in at least 16 years.
The Obama administration and European governments denounced the coup. U.S. officials said they were working for the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya and European officials offered to mediate talks between the two sides.

"Zelaya was seized by soldiers and hustled aboard a plane to Costa Rica early Sunday, just hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of the courts and Congress, and which his opponents said was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.
Micheletti said he would only serve out the end of Zelaya's term, which ends in January following presidential elections set for November.
"We respect everybody and we only ask that they respect us and leave us in peace because the country is headed toward free and transparent general elections in November," Micheletti said.
His designated foreign minister, Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."


Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


Hmmm. Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama are on the same side of this issue. That's kind of scary.

Most people don't favor military dictatorships. Its not really a controversial issue, except for some reason Dude is A OK with a military dictatorship here.

Sounds to me like Dude is on the right side of this one. It would appear that Zelaya had learned from Chavez how to get around the constitutional constraints of term limits and the rest of the Honduran government decided that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Nik]

Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — Honduras' new leaders defied growing global pressure on Monday to reverse a military coup, arguing that they had followed their constitution in removing a leftist president who attacked it.
Presidents from around Latin America were gathering in Nicaragua for meetings Monday on how to reverse the first coup in Central America in at least 16 years.
The Obama administration and European governments denounced the coup. U.S. officials said they were working for the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya and European officials offered to mediate talks between the two sides.

"Zelaya was seized by soldiers and hustled aboard a plane to Costa Rica early Sunday, just hours before a rogue referendum he had called in defiance of the courts and Congress, and which his opponents said was an attempt to remain in power after his term ends Jan. 27.
Micheletti said he would only serve out the end of Zelaya's term, which ends in January following presidential elections set for November.
"We respect everybody and we only ask that they respect us and leave us in peace because the country is headed toward free and transparent general elections in November," Micheletti said.
His designated foreign minister, Enrique Ortez Colindres told HRN on Monday that no coup had occurred. He said the military had merely upheld the constitution "that the earlier government wanted to reform without any basis and in an illegal way."


Replacement Duel Ensues in Honduras After President Ousted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com


Hmmm. Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama are on the same side of this issue. That's kind of scary.

Most people don't favor military dictatorships. Its not really a controversial issue, except for some reason Dude is A OK with a military dictatorship here.

Sounds to me like Dude is on the right side of this one. It would appear that Zelaya had learned from Chavez how to get around the constitutional constraints of term limits and the rest of the Honduran government decided that wasn't going to happen.

Its not the "rest of the Honduran government", its the unelected Honduran Military who decided that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Vel]

Most people don't favor military dictatorships. Its not really a controversial issue, except for some reason Dude is A OK with a military dictatorship here.

Sounds to me like Dude is on the right side of this one. It would appear that Zelaya had learned from Chavez how to get around the constitutional constraints of term limits and the rest of the Honduran government decided that wasn't going to happen.

Its not the "rest of the Honduran government", its the unelected Honduran Military who decided that wasn't going to happen.

Hmmm... Then how is it that Michelleti was sworn in by the National Congress of Honduras after Zelaya was arrested?

 

[Toro]

Countries are right to condemn an overthrow of a democratically elected government by the army. Whatever one might think of Zelaya, he is the democratically elected head of government. Circumventing democracy should always be condemned by other democracies and those who believe in democracy. By not condemning the military coup of a democratically elected government, the United States would be undermining its own moral standing in the world.

One must remember that the Honduran army oversaw one of the most brutal dictatorships in Latin America, slaughtering tens of thousands of people, including women and children, in the 1980s. The fact that people might be a little jumpy about an institution with a history of such brutality against their own citizens is no surprise.

Having said that, the facts on the ground aren't black and white. Zelaya wanted to convene a constituent assembly to amend via a referendum the constitution to allow him to run for more than one term. The Supreme Court said that was illegal. The legislature, as I understand it, has that right, not the President. The legislature opposed Zelaya's initiative, including members of his own party. Zelaya ordered the army to enforce the voting of the referendum. The army refused because the Supreme Court said it was illegal. Zelaya then fired his defense minister who refused to cooperate and the top military commander. The Supreme Court ordered the army to arrest Zelaya. The new President, Micheletti, is a member of Zelaya's party.

So, countries are right to condemn the coup. However, it appears that Zelaya was attempting to break the law.

 

[DiveCon]

Countries are right to condemn an overthrow of a democratically elected government by the army. Whatever one might think of Zelaya, he is the democratically elected head of government. Circumventing democracy should always be condemned by other democracies and those who believe in democracy. By not condemning the military coup of a democratically elected government, the United States would be undermining its own moral standing in the world.

One must remember that the Honduran army oversaw one of the most brutal dictatorships in Latin America, slaughtering tens of thousands of people, including women and children, in the 1980s. The fact that people might be a little jumpy about an institution with a history of such brutality against their own citizens is no surprise.

Having said that, the facts on the ground aren't black and white. Zelaya wanted to convene a constituent assembly to amend via a referendum the constitution to allow him to run for more than one term. The Supreme Court said that was illegal. The legislature, as I understand it, has that right, not the President. The legislature opposed Zelaya's initiative, including members of his own party. Zelaya ordered the army to enforce the voting of the referendum. The army refused because the Supreme Court said it was illegal. Zelaya then fired his defense minister who refused to cooperate and the top military commander. The Supreme Court ordered the army to arrest Zelaya. The new President, Micheletti, is a member of Zelaya's party.

So, countries are right to condemn the coup. However, it appears that Zelaya was attempting to break the law.

what if he had violated his oath of office and the Honduran Constitution?

 

[Vel]

Countries are right to condemn an overthrow of a democratically elected government by the army. Whatever one might think of Zelaya, he is the democratically elected head of government. Circumventing democracy should always be condemned by other democracies and those who believe in democracy. By not condemning the military coup of a democratically elected government, the United States would be undermining its own moral standing in the world.

One must remember that the Honduran army oversaw one of the most brutal dictatorships in Latin America, slaughtering tens of thousands of people, including women and children, in the 1980s. The fact that people might be a little jumpy about an institution with a history of such brutality against their own citizens is no surprise.

Having said that, the facts on the ground aren't black and white. Zelaya wanted to convene a constituent assembly to amend via a referendum the constitution to allow him to run for more than one term. The Supreme Court said that was illegal. The legislature, as I understand it, has that right, not the President. The legislature opposed Zelaya's initiative, including members of his own party. Zelaya ordered the army to enforce the voting of the referendum. The army refused because the Supreme Court said it was illegal. Zelaya then fired his defense minister who refused to cooperate and the top military commander. The Supreme Court ordered the army to arrest Zelaya. The new President, Micheletti, is a member of Zelaya's party.

So, countries are right to condemn the coup. However, it appears that Zelaya was attempting to break the law.

Based on your post, it sounds as if the army did not pull a coup. They followed the instructions of the court. How different would this be from an impeachment in our democracy? It almost sounds as if the Honduran checks and balances actually worked.

 

[Toro]

Based on your post, it sounds as if the army did not pull a coup. They followed the instructions of the court. How different would this be from an impeachment in our democracy? It almost sounds as if the Honduran checks and balances actually worked.

As I understand it, the army was supposed to arrest Zelaya, not depose him.

If Obama were ordered arrested, the army does not have the right to overthrow him and install Biden as President. Same in Honduras. That is why the country is being condemned internationally.

 

[DiveCon]

Based on your post, it sounds as if the army did not pull a coup. They followed the instructions of the court. How different would this be from an impeachment in our democracy? It almost sounds as if the Honduran checks and balances actually worked.

As I understand it, the army was supposed to arrest Zelaya, not depose him.

If Obama were ordered arrested, the army does not have the right to overthrow him and install Biden as President. Same in Honduras. That is why the country is being condemned internationally.

wouldnt one follow the other?

 

[Toro]

Based on your post, it sounds as if the army did not pull a coup. They followed the instructions of the court. How different would this be from an impeachment in our democracy? It almost sounds as if the Honduran checks and balances actually worked.

As I understand it, the army was supposed to arrest Zelaya, not depose him.

If Obama were ordered arrested, the army does not have the right to overthrow him and install Biden as President. Same in Honduras. That is why the country is being condemned internationally.

wouldnt one follow the other?

Before a sitting President in the United States is removed, he must first be impeached. There is a legal process that must be followed. The President probably wouldn't be whisked away on a military plane to Canada and told not to come back into the country either.

It may have been that the Honduran legislature would have gotten rid of Zelaya anyways - after all, a member of his party is the new President. And maybe they did and there is a lot of confusion about what happened. But as I understand it, the President was removed through extra-legal means.

 

[Oddball]

Based on your post, it sounds as if the army did not pull a coup. They followed the instructions of the court. How different would this be from an impeachment in our democracy? It almost sounds as if the Honduran checks and balances actually worked.

As I understand it, the army was supposed to arrest Zelaya, not depose him.

If Obama were ordered arrested, the army does not have the right to overthrow him and install Biden as President. Same in Honduras. That is why the country is being condemned internationally.

Huh...WHA?!?!?!???

Following that logic, Ken Lay could've been arrested and still allowed to run Enron (assuming the company was still viable at the time).

Or, for a more historical analogy, if Admiral Halsey had decided to use the forces under his control to invade California, dontcha think a mutiny of the officers and troops of his command would've been justified??

 

[Toro]

Huh...WHA?!?!?!???

Following that logic, Ken Lay could've been arrested and still allowed to run Enron (assuming the company was still viable at the time).

Since when did "arrested" become "guilty?" Is this a foreign concept?

Since you used the Enron analogy, it is not "my" logic. It is the logic of the articles of incorporation of Enron. Ken Lay would have been CEO of Enron until he was removed by the Board of Directors. There is due process by which CEOs are removed. There was nowhere in the articles of incorporation of Enron any provision which stated that had the CEO been arrested, the Chief Operating Officer could have called in the police and have Lay escorted out of the building and have him proclaimed CEO.

 

[Oddball]

Oh, I dunno....

Halsey turns his carrier task force eastward and briefs his senior officers on the upcoming attacks against targets called "Point Loma" and "Long Beach", and there's no basis for a mutiny and removing him from command??

 

[pinqy]

Am I the only one who hoped the title of the article meant an actual duel? Old school way to define leadership, and one I'd like to see brought back.

I'd like to settle international disputes that way, too. Obama would kick Kim Jong Il's ass. Ahmadinejad is a different story....I might have to put my money on him. Obama would have to be careful with choice of weapons, I guarantee Ahmadinejad and Putin are better shots.

 

[Oddball]

I'd like to settle international disputes that way, too. Obama would kick Kim Jong Il's ass. Ahmadinejad is a different story....I might have to put my money on him. Obama would have to be careful with choice of weapons, I guarantee Ahmadinejad and Putin are better shots.

I'd bet a dollar to a dog turd that Little Lord Obammyroy couldn't beat any of them at cribbage, let alone a shootout.

 

[pinqy]

I'd like to settle international disputes that way, too. Obama would kick Kim Jong Il's ass. Ahmadinejad is a different story....I might have to put my money on him. Obama would have to be careful with choice of weapons, I guarantee Ahmadinejad and Putin are better shots.

I'd bet a dollar to a dog turd that Little Lord Obammyroy couldn't beat any of them at cribbage, let alone a shootout.

Come on....Kim Jong Il is 68 years old and not in good shape. Him at least I think Obama could give a good ass-whupping. Maybe not with pistols (I doubt Obama could politically admit he'd ever fired a gun even if he has), but hand-to-hand, or short swords? I think Obama could kick a 68 year old delusional man a beating. Putin and Ahmadinejad are closer to Obama's age and certainly better trained in any method of fighting.

The Queen of England would lay the smack-down on Obama though...she's vicious.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, but Kim's a sneaky little fucker.

Have you forgotten how he lured and dunked Hans Brix into his shark tank??

[youtube]b49Iwfp8U-U[/youtube]

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Hmmm. Hugo Chavez and Barack Obama are on the same side of this issue. That's kind of scary.

Yeah, Obama, Chavez, and - you forgot to mention - every single other government on this entire continent, including the most right-wing.

What Toro's saying is basically a fair take on the issue. What Zelaya was doing might been unconstitutional, but it does not merit a military coup, kidnapping the president at 4 in the morning, and dumping him HERE in Costa Rica . In his pajamas. Not to mention the violent suppression of pro-president protesters all over the country today, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW. What this is all about is Zelaya conducting a "referendum-type-thing" to determine whether they hold a "referendom-type-thing" in order to have a "referendum-type-thing" to change the constitution, because the Honduran constitution doesn't really have any mechanisms to hold "referendum-type-things." Illegal? Yes. Shameless power grab? Perhaps. But the fact is that military coups have never lead to anything good, and anybody who knows 2 shits about Latin America would know that. Obviously, most posters here don't. There are other channels with which to handle this sort of situation; the military isn't one of them.

It is pretty funny though, to see the same people who 'cry' about a DISPUTED election and ALLEGED coup in one place, suddenly come out in full support of an ACTUAL coup in another. Coups are coups; they are unnacceptable against democratically elected governments. When the people put someone in power, only the people can take them out.