Remind us again how Iran is not...

[Shogun]

Yeah, people like you NEVER get it until something's glowing ....

funny, the last bit of hard evidence I remember coming from the INTELLIGENCE community said something about mobile chem labs and weapons of....


say, what happened when the barking dogs calling for war against iraq for much the same reasons discovered just how solid THAT intel turned out to be?

 

[Lookout]

funny, the last bit of hard evidence I remember coming from the INTELLIGENCE community said something about mobile chem labs and weapons of....


say, what happened when the barking dogs calling for war against iraq for much the same reasons discovered just how solid THAT intel turned out to be?

I think this is a little different. Back then it was a sad case of the blind/ well intentioned/ hidden agenda, leading the blind. Now, if the satalite images are true, they clearly show a weapons grade plutonium/ uranium enrichment plant being built. The shape, size and location of the structure is unmistakable. It would be like taking an aerial picture of the hoover dam, clearly it is meant for one main purpose...to hold back water.
The song still remains the same, (Zep pun intended) no matter what you or I or anybody else thinks about it, it won't change whatever outcome will be from happening. The Bill of rights, Declaration of independence and Constitution have been reduced to nothing more than worthless pieces of paper displayed in the Smithsonian Institute. Lofty idealism destroyed and perverted by the one percent that rules America for greed and selfishness and instant gratification. "WE THE PEOPLE" now means, "WE THE RICH AND POWERFUL". I don't blame the rich. If I was to point fingers at anyone it would be the 99% of America that are now fat and lazy and don't, won't, care until they lose all the dangly carrot trinkets that have been given to them on a silver platter. Maybe not even then! It might just take the end of civilization and a new start 1000 years from now to learn this valuable lesson.
To be fair and just, I must put myself in the 99% catagory as well. I am not involved in city council meetings, hell, I don't even vote. I, like most others are guilty of sitting back thinking someone else will handle it. I could stand behind the excuse that I am only 46 years old and the dammage and course was already done and too late for me to do anything about it. But it would be just that, an excuse.

 

[Lookout]

And of course one of the most oil rich nations on Earth that doesn't even have to pay export/import duties is in dire need of nuclear power ....

Of course Gunny, don't you know that they are solely concerned with global warming, and are completly unselfish, wanting to do nothing more than SAVE the planet.

 

[Gunny]

I don't know if I completely agree with your characterization of Iran's leadership, but I do agree that they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

Really? Well, what WOULD you characterize the state sponsors of Hezbollah and Hamas as?

 

[Gunny]

Allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons would be the same as giving a loaded 45 to a two year old.

Nah ... two-years-old don't have a purpose. I'd more liken it to letting Jeffery Dahmer run the daycare.

 

[Gunny]

why would you imagine that they should have to burn up their oil before wanting to have nuclear energy? Indeed, should we burn all of our coal before we allow another reactor to be built?

I don't. I just imagine that they have proven themselves hostile to coexistence and should not be allowed the capability of prducing nuclear weapons.

 

[doniston]

why would you imagine that they should have to burn up their oil before wanting to have nuclear energy? Indeed, should we burn all of our coal before we allow another reactor to be built?

A very good, ---reasonable question. I personally beleive that a lot of the folks here and outside our circle are simply afraid of their own shadows.

 

[doniston]

Really? Well, what WOULD you characterize the state sponsors of Hezbollah and Hamas as?

Perhaps very similar to the US administration for the past fifty or so years. sponsoring our own brand of terrorists and terrorism. Let's see now, Israel comes to mind.

 

[Annie]

Perhaps very similar to the US administration for the past fifty or so years. sponsoring our own brand of terrorists and terrorism. Let's see now, Israel comes to mind.

Just an example of how ill informed you are, while slamming those that are more informed, if less articulate than your lame game.

 

[Shogun]

I don't. I just imagine that they have proven themselves hostile to coexistence and should not be allowed the capability of prducing nuclear weapons.

well gunny.. this is where i'll have to remind you that MANY people in the world feel the same way about us, last 6 years included, and may very well remember who has been the only nation to use it's nuclear capabilities. These people can point fingers too.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think the vast majority of people in the US agree it would be a bad idea.

Obviously not Shogun, Doniston or a couple others on this very board.

 

[doniston]

Obviously not Shogun, Doniston or a couple others on this very board.

In this case you are quite correct, at least in regards to me.

 

[Gunny]

In this case you are quite correct, at least in regards to me.

No doubt. Like it's a surprise.

 

[bush lover]

Our prescient President, who foresaw the Axis of Evil many years ago, promised that we will deal with Iraq, Iran and North Korea. We have taken out Iraq. Now our President and Vice President have to order a full-scale pincer assault from the west and east on Iran, backed by a massive "Shock and Awe." Iran hates our freedoms, has nukes and supports terrorism. We have to attack them now. Their puny military will give up in 48 hours. Then we have to attack North Korea, because they hate our freedoms, have nukes and support terrorism. Their so-called army is equipped with 1950s weaponry. They'll give up and run away when they see our formidable equipment. For good measure, we could do Cuba too. But our President has yet to make liberation of that evil country a priority, unfortunately.

 

[ReillyT]

Obviously not Shogun, Doniston or a couple others on this very board.

I don't know that they so much think that an Iran with nuclear weapons is not a concern. My impression is merely that they are loath to trust the evidence that Iran is attempting to obtain nuclear weapons (for obvious reasons). Furthermore, they may also think that even if Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, military intervention would in the end be counter-productive. These are both reasonable positions to hold.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't know that they so much think that an Iran with nuclear weapons is not a concern. My impression is merely that they are loath to trust the evidence that Iran is attempting to obtain nuclear weapons (for obvious reasons). Furthermore, they may also think that even if Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, military intervention would in the end be counter-productive. These are both reasonable positions to hold.

You missed Donistons reply above I take it. And you have not seen Shogun's argument that since we used the bomb in 1945 Iran should have it for protection I guess? Then there is a couple other posters that have specifically said it is none of our business and that Iran is just as safe to have a nuke as any other current country with them. I would mention names but then , since they have not posted in this particular thread I will get the " your fixation on me is unnerving" response.

 

[ReillyT]

You missed Donistons reply above I take it. And you have not seen Shogun's argument that since we used the bomb in 1945 Iran should have it for protection I guess? Then there is a couple other posters that have specifically said it is none of our business and that Iran is just as safe to have a nuke as any other current country with them. I would mention names but then , since they have not posted in this particular thread I will get the " your fixation on me is unnerving" response.

No, I saw Doniston's reply. It was just ambiguous as to what specifically he agreed or disagreed with. I guess to the extent that you are accurately summarizing their positions, then I disagree with them. Hopefully, they will chime in soon.

 

[DeadCanDance]

working on the bomb. And of course claim that you know this because the Bush Administrartion is liars and frauds, Further remind us how the UN watchdog has made no claim the Iranians are working on a bomb...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071022/wl_nm/nuclear_iran_elbaradei_dc

You must not have read your own article. It doesn't say that IAEA knows for a fact that Iran is working on a nuclear bomb. It says that if we assume they are (which requires a whole host of assumptions), that they could be several years away from having the bomb. Unconvincing, to say the least. There are dozens of countries in the world with nuclear power and nuclear enrichment capabilities. If Brazil wanted to build a nuclear bomb, they could potentially do it in a matter of several years.

If you war-lovers want a war with Iran, you're simply going to do better than this: you're going to have to provide the evidence that Iran is actively building a bomb. Given your track record in the Iraq war, you can't be trusted to make assumptions leading to costly and bloody wars.

Now, it's entirely possible that Iran has a covert nuclear weapons research program. In fact, they've probably had a nuclear weapons research program since the days of the shah, when they were our buddies. However, there's currently no concrete evidence of it. But, in terms of going to war and spending another trillion dollars on your war lust, you're simply going to have to do better than making assumptions and asserting them as fact... You're going to have to provide concrete evidence.

As for me, I've heard no evidence of an imminent threat, and at this point I think we need to apply pressure and diplomacy on Iran, to make their nuclear activities more transparent to international inspection. Nuclear proliferation is most certainly an area of deep concern, but you have not made a credible case for war.

 

[DeadCanDance]

And of course one of the most oil rich nations on Earth that doesn't even have to pay export/import duties is in dire need of nuclear power ....

Its a matter of simple economics, for anybody who pays attention to credible media.

The issue is not about how much oil iran has for domestic consumption. The issue is how much money (hard currency) iran can make off its reserves.

Iran can make more money, by selling its oil abroad, rather than using it for domestic consumption. As a relatively poor country with a large population, Iran has to refine and sell its petroleum fuel domestically at below market costs. In other words, they lose money, when they refine their oil and sell it domestically. They can make more money by selling more of their petroleum on world markets, rather than using it for domestic consumption.


Caveat: This is not an apology for Iran. This is a simple fact.

 

[ReillyT]

Its a matter of simple economics, for anybody who pays attention to credible media.

The issue is not about how much oil iran has for domestic consumption. The issue is how much money (hard currency) iran can make off its reserves.

Iran can make more money, by selling its oil abroad, rather than using it for domestic consumption. As a relatively poor country with a large population, Iran has to refine and sell its petroleum fuel domestically at below market costs. In other words, they lose money, when they refine their oil and sell it domestically. They can make more money by selling more of their petroleum on world markets, rather than using it for domestic consumption.


Caveat: This is not an apology for Iran. This is a simple fact.

Actually, I don't think Iran has many refineries, so they actually have to import refined oil and gas. It doesn't change your argument (it actually makes it stronger), but I just wanted to clarify.