Remember when Obama said the NSA was only looking at terrorists?

[Plasmaball]

It was a response to my thread, wasn't it?

By the way, experts have said that the technology to do this did not exist 5 years ago. In fact, when the news first broke, experts were still saying that the tech to store and analyze gigabytes of data didn't exist, and were flabbergasted when the government admitted it. Unless you can prove them wrong, you can't blame Bush.

jesus not everything is about you.

sure i can. I can blame him, congress and the courts for allowing this to happen.
You motherfucking water carrier.

You are an idiot. Bush has no control over what is occurring now, the people responsible for allowing it are the people who vote for the people you keep trying to blame. That includes you, but not me, since no one I have ever voted for supported any of this.

wow... i talk about black and you talk about rainbows...

 

[g5000]

Is anyone surprised that he lied? It turns out that they let the DEA dig through the information, who then use it to go after drug dealers, and lie about it in court.

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.
The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Feel free to keep pretending this is all acceptable, and that we can trust the government.

I do not remember when Obama said they were just going after terrorists, but I'm sure you have a link to that.

Also, ever since the Patriot Act was passed, I have been trying to get the word out this was not just for the War on Terra™. The Patriot Act was the culmination of a wish list the law enforcement community had for years prior to 9/11.

Not wanting to waste a good opportunity during a crisis, they got their wish list incorporated into the Patriot Act while everyone's emotions were all heated up after 9/11.

I would bet that many a RICO case and DEA case and child porn case in the past 11 years was made possible by the Patriot Act.

The government has been reading your phone records for at least the past 7 years. I really don't understand why everyone is pretending they are just now hearing about this, as if Obama invented it.

This was in all the papers in 2006. And all it got was a big yawn from the Faux Right, when they weren't passionately defending these tactics. Hell, they even insisted waterboarding is not torture. That's how far around the bend they were.

Now they want us all to pretend they were hatched yesterday and are all against it, like.

If you want to induce cognitive dissonance in a faux rightie, wait for them to start ranting about Obama spying on us. Then ask them if waterboarding is torture.

 

[Care4all]

Is anyone surprised that he lied? It turns out that they let the DEA dig through the information, who then use it to go after drug dealers, and lie about it in court.

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.
The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Feel free to keep pretending this is all acceptable, and that we can trust the government.

Quantum, this part below comes from the article you gave as reference:

Wiretap tips forwarded by the SOD usually come from foreign governments, U.S. intelligence agencies or court-authorized domestic phone recordings.


Because warrantless eavesdropping on Americans is illegal, tips from intelligence agencies are generally not forwarded to the SOD until a caller's citizenship can be verified, according to one senior law enforcement official and one former U.S. military intelligence analyst.

Isn't this paragraph saying that anything that gets forwarded to SOD from our Intelligence agencies, is NOT wiretapping on any American citizen, but only for NON-citizens, 'generally'?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're right Quan...It never even happened. This is all new information and no one saw this coming.

You get caught in a lie and deflect instead of admitting it.

Prove its a lie. I dare you

All you have to do to prove it isn't is who where Bush said it. Until then, it is a lie.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is anyone surprised that he lied? It turns out that they let the DEA dig through the information, who then use it to go after drug dealers, and lie about it in court.

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.
The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Feel free to keep pretending this is all acceptable, and that we can trust the government.

I do not remember when Obama said they were just going after terrorists, but I'm sure you have a link to that.

Also, ever since the Patriot Act was passed, I have been trying to get the word out this was not just for the War on Terra™. The Patriot Act was the culmination of a wish list the law enforcement community had for years prior to 9/11.

Not wanting to waste a good opportunity during a crisis, they got their wish list incorporated into the Patriot Act while everyone's emotions were all heated up after 9/11.

I would bet that many a RICO case and DEA case and child porn case in the past 11 years was made possible by the Patriot Act.

The government has been reading your phone records for at least the past 7 years. I really don't understand why everyone is pretending they are just now hearing about this, as if Obama invented it.

This was in all the papers in 2006. And all it got was a big yawn from the Faux Right, when they weren't passionately defending these tactics. Hell, they even insisted waterboarding is not torture. That's how far around the bend they were.

Now they want us all to pretend they were hatched yesterday and are all against it, like.

If you want to induce cognitive dissonance in a faux rightie, wait for them to start ranting about Obama spying on us. Then ask them if waterboarding is torture.

That was funny, you don't remember something that happened last month, but you do remember something that didn't happen 12 years ago.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Is anyone surprised that he lied? It turns out that they let the DEA dig through the information, who then use it to go after drug dealers, and lie about it in court.

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans. Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.
The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Feel free to keep pretending this is all acceptable, and that we can trust the government.

Quantum, this part below comes from the article you gave as reference:

Wiretap tips forwarded by the SOD usually come from foreign governments, U.S. intelligence agencies or court-authorized domestic phone recordings.


Because warrantless eavesdropping on Americans is illegal, tips from intelligence agencies are generally not forwarded to the SOD until a caller's citizenship can be verified, according to one senior law enforcement official and one former U.S. military intelligence analyst.

Isn't this paragraph saying that anything that gets forwarded to SOD from our Intelligence agencies, is NOT wiretapping on any American citizen, but only for NON-citizens, 'generally'?

Actually, wiretapping anyone, even non citizens, is illegal. The PATRIOT Act set up a way for the administration to wiretap terrorists using a secret court to get warrants. It did not allow them to then use non terrorism data to pursue anyone else.

 

[The Rabbi]

jesus not everything is about you.

sure i can. I can blame him, congress and the courts for allowing this to happen.
You motherfucking water carrier.

Which branch and which person has responsibility over NSA and DEA? Hint, it isnt Congress.

who passed ndaa and the patriot act.....hint its congress.

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You get caught in a lie and deflect instead of admitting it.

Prove its a lie. I dare you

All you have to do to prove it isn't is who where Bush said it. Until then, it is a lie.

I didn't say that...Prove what I said isn't true. You cant

 

[Care4all]

Is anyone surprised that he lied? It turns out that they let the DEA dig through the information, who then use it to go after drug dealers, and lie about it in court.

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Feel free to keep pretending this is all acceptable, and that we can trust the government.

Quantum, this part below comes from the article you gave as reference:

Wiretap tips forwarded by the SOD usually come from foreign governments, U.S. intelligence agencies or court-authorized domestic phone recordings.


Because warrantless eavesdropping on Americans is illegal, tips from intelligence agencies are generally not forwarded to the SOD until a caller's citizenship can be verified, according to one senior law enforcement official and one former U.S. military intelligence analyst.

Isn't this paragraph saying that anything that gets forwarded to SOD from our Intelligence agencies, is NOT wiretapping on any American citizen, but only for NON-citizens, 'generally'?

Actually, wiretapping anyone, even non citizens, is illegal.

But you didn't answer the question....Isn't this part of your article saying that information from our intelligence agencies is forwarded to SOD ONCE they have determined they are NOT an American citizen, or if the wiretap was provided through a legal warrant?

And as far as noncitizens.....is this true, that it is illegal to wiretap noncitizens? I can undertand your point of view, that this should be illegal as well...due to the the bill of rights in the constitution of the United States, it does not say that those rights are for CITIZENS of the United States only, but those are rights for every human being here on our soil, it could be interpreted as...BUT IS IT? On the books now, is it illegal to wire tap a foreigner?

 

[Plasmaball]

Which branch and which person has responsibility over NSA and DEA? Hint, it isnt Congress.

who passed ndaa and the patriot act.....hint its congress.

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

 

[The Rabbi]

who passed ndaa and the patriot act.....hint its congress.

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

The source is the Constitution that established this system of gov't. You blame that?
You are a moron. I realize that isn't news to anyone whose read your posts but it bears repeating.
Who ordered the NSA to expand the scope of its activities to American citizens?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quantum, this part below comes from the article you gave as reference:

Isn't this paragraph saying that anything that gets forwarded to SOD from our Intelligence agencies, is NOT wiretapping on any American citizen, but only for NON-citizens, 'generally'?

Actually, wiretapping anyone, even non citizens, is illegal.

But you didn't answer the question....Isn't this part of your article saying that information from our intelligence agencies is forwarded to SOD ONCE they have determined they are NOT an American citizen, or if the wiretap was provided through a legal warrant?

And as far as noncitizens.....is this true, that it is illegal to wiretap noncitizens? I can undertand your point of view, that this should be illegal as well...due to the the bill of rights in the constitution of the United States, it does not say that those rights are for CITIZENS of the United States only, but those are rights for every human being here on our soil, it could be interpreted as...BUT IS IT? On the books now, is it illegal to wire tap a foreigner?

The Supreme Court said that the rights guaranteed by the Constitution apply to everyone in the US. If they didn't the detainees at Guantanamo would not have the right to file cases in our courts.

By the way, if it were legal to wiretap non citizens, and then use that information against them in court, why are they trained to lie about where the information comes from?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

who passed ndaa and the patriot act.....hint its congress.

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

I am making it into a partisan football by pointing out that Obama lied about it?

 

[Plasmaball]

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

The source is the Constitution that established this system of gov't. You blame that?
You are a moron. I realize that isn't news to anyone whose read your posts but it bears repeating.
Who ordered the NSA to expand the scope of its activities to American citizens?

sigh......enjoy playing pointing fingers. Im going to go talk to adults.

 

[Plasmaball]

Congress didnt expand the scope of the NSA's searches, muttonhead. You might as well blame James Madison for writing the Constitution.
Dolt.

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

I am making it into a partisan football by pointing out that Obama lied about it?

no but where is the context that others are too? I've never seen you say it, you just make excuses for them.

 

[The Rabbi]

i blame the source, and everyone that has come after it. You and windbag are trying to make it into a partisan football.

They are ALL too blame. The fact you can't even agree with that says everything about how hack you are.

The source is the Constitution that established this system of gov't. You blame that?
You are a moron. I realize that isn't news to anyone whose read your posts but it bears repeating.
Who ordered the NSA to expand the scope of its activities to American citizens?

sigh......enjoy playing pointing fingers. Im going to go talk to adults.

Asking them to change your diaper?

 

[Care4all]

Actually, wiretapping anyone, even non citizens, is illegal.

But you didn't answer the question....Isn't this part of your article saying that information from our intelligence agencies is forwarded to SOD ONCE they have determined they are NOT an American citizen, or if the wiretap was provided through a legal warrant?

And as far as noncitizens.....is this true, that it is illegal to wiretap noncitizens? I can undertand your point of view, that this should be illegal as well...due to the the bill of rights in the constitution of the United States, it does not say that those rights are for CITIZENS of the United States only, but those are rights for every human being here on our soil, it could be interpreted as...BUT IS IT? On the books now, is it illegal to wire tap a foreigner?

The Supreme Court said that the rights guaranteed by the Constitution apply to everyone in the US. If they didn't the detainees at Guantanamo would not have the right to file cases in our courts.

By the way, if it were legal to wiretap non citizens, and then use that information against them in court, why are they trained to lie about where the information comes from?

that's easy...because they don't want to give away intelligence secrets and methodologies to 'the bad guys''....

Didn't the patriot act clear the way to spy on foreigners?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But you didn't answer the question....Isn't this part of your article saying that information from our intelligence agencies is forwarded to SOD ONCE they have determined they are NOT an American citizen, or if the wiretap was provided through a legal warrant?

And as far as noncitizens.....is this true, that it is illegal to wiretap noncitizens? I can undertand your point of view, that this should be illegal as well...due to the the bill of rights in the constitution of the United States, it does not say that those rights are for CITIZENS of the United States only, but those are rights for every human being here on our soil, it could be interpreted as...BUT IS IT? On the books now, is it illegal to wire tap a foreigner?

The Supreme Court said that the rights guaranteed by the Constitution apply to everyone in the US. If they didn't the detainees at Guantanamo would not have the right to file cases in our courts.

By the way, if it were legal to wiretap non citizens, and then use that information against them in court, why are they trained to lie about where the information comes from?

that's easy...because they don't want to give away intelligence secrets and methodologies to 'the bad guys''....

Didn't the patriot act clear the way to spy on foreigners?

Nope, because the courts already have procedures to protect sources. They have existed for years, and have allowed undercover agents to provide evidence and still remain undercover.

Also, they are lying to the prosecutors about the source of the information. Tell me why an attorney representing the government cannot know about the fact that the info came from a wiretap if the wiretap is legal.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It was a response to my thread, wasn't it?

By the way, experts have said that the technology to do this did not exist 5 years ago. In fact, when the news first broke, experts were still saying that the tech to store and analyze gigabytes of data didn't exist, and were flabbergasted when the government admitted it. Unless you can prove them wrong, you can't blame Bush.

I think the point he's trying to make is the attitude started with Bush.

Trading liberty for safety became pretty popular after 9/11, and it's only gotten worse since then.

You're a little too trigger-happy with trying to paint others as hypocrites.

I think the attitude started with Roosevelt and the OSS, but I am not a partisan hack that wants to blame Bush for everything.

I'm not blaming Bush, I'm blaming the American people as a whole.

It would have happened no matter who was President.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think the point he's trying to make is the attitude started with Bush.

Trading liberty for safety became pretty popular after 9/11, and it's only gotten worse since then.

You're a little too trigger-happy with trying to paint others as hypocrites.

I think the attitude started with Roosevelt and the OSS, but I am not a partisan hack that wants to blame Bush for everything.

I'm not blaming Bush, I'm blaming the American people as a whole.

It would have happened no matter who was President.

We're all responsible.
Bullshit.
Someone gave the order. That person is responsible.