Refute This!

[edthecynic]

I also mentioned how nothing physical can be eternal, with no beginning and no end. It defies all science and logic.

No it doesn't! It was PROVEN by a repeatable scientific experiment that physical energy has no beginning (can't be created) and has no end (can't be destroyed).

It was proven that humans cannot create or destroy energy.

You just made up that crap.
The PROVEN FLoT does NOT specify "humans." It is a Law of nature applying to the entire natural universe, imaginary Gods included.

 

[edthecynic]

I'm going to ignore you now. Wow. Three in one day. New record.

As you are made in the image of your God, that is a tribute to the cowardice of your humanized God.

 

[WinterBorn]

I also mentioned how nothing physical can be eternal, with no beginning and no end. It defies all science and logic.

No it doesn't! It was PROVEN by a repeatable scientific experiment that physical energy has no beginning (can't be created) and has no end (can't be destroyed).

It was proven that humans cannot create or destroy energy. You make the assumption that it always existed. There is no evidence for that view. It simply means that scientists do not know where it came from. Can you say that God could not create energy? Just because humans cannot create energy does not mean that someone greater than us cannot. And until you can prove that a Creator does not exist, my claim is just as valid. Neither side has any proof. It requires faith to believe in both. I'm going to ignore you now. Wow. Three in one day. New record.

Ed says "Thank yoou for your unconditional surrender".

 

[Taz]

They have an excuse for that too. "God's time doesn't have to be the same as our time. One day for him might be a thousand years or more for us" See how easy it it when they can just make shit up to justify the crazy shit they believe?

In the original language, the word used for day means a 24 hour day. Jesus confirmed this in the New Testament when he used the word that means the same in the greek, or Aramaic, whichever it was. Can't remember.

Makes no difference. I've heard the above excuse countless times.

In other words, just ignore the facts. Got it.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I will rephrase my remark. It makes no difference to the people that believe Gods time is not necessarily our time. The original language used doesn't matter, logic doesn't matter. It is still their belief.

What matters is what the Bible says. A persons interpretation of it does not matter. One can only discern Gods truth through the Holy Spirit. If you have the Holy Spirit, you understand all of Scripture. If you don't. You can't. That's all that matters.

So you have to be able to move the goalposts easily and often to read the bible and believe it. Got it.

 

[Taz]

The universe came from the Big Bang. What was before that and how the BB came to be is still unknown. But at least scientists are looking, as opposed to theists, who aren't even looking for any proof.

As I have stated multiple times already, nothing physical can create itself. Also, consider this. Space and time are a part of the physical universe. So where and when did the BB happen if there was no where or when yet? No matter what theories scientists come up with, they cannot escape the reality that the universe requires a cause. That cause must be eternal since you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. What does that leave us? The only rational explanation is a Creator.

The universe does not require a cause. The laws of physics explain the BB quite well. Gravity pulls the matter in, and at a certain point the mass causes an explosion sending the matter outward. The fact that you claim nothing is eternal does not change that.

So you just simply ignore the law of cause and effect? And where did the laws of physics come from? No matter what crazy ideas you guys come up with, you cannot even begin to explain why anything exists. You're clueless, but refuse to admit it.

And it's so easy for you to say God did it. No need to bother trying to learn anything more at that point.

My faith in God is based on evidence. What evidence do you have for evolution? I suggest you watch the video I posted, evolution is dead. It proves that evolution as well as abiogenesis is a false narrative.

You have evidence of god? Like what?

 

[WinterBorn]

As I have stated multiple times already, nothing physical can create itself. Also, consider this. Space and time are a part of the physical universe. So where and when did the BB happen if there was no where or when yet? No matter what theories scientists come up with, they cannot escape the reality that the universe requires a cause. That cause must be eternal since you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. What does that leave us? The only rational explanation is a Creator.

The universe does not require a cause. The laws of physics explain the BB quite well. Gravity pulls the matter in, and at a certain point the mass causes an explosion sending the matter outward. The fact that you claim nothing is eternal does not change that.

So you just simply ignore the law of cause and effect? And where did the laws of physics come from? No matter what crazy ideas you guys come up with, you cannot even begin to explain why anything exists. You're clueless, but refuse to admit it.

And it's so easy for you to say God did it. No need to bother trying to learn anything more at that point.

My faith in God is based on evidence. What evidence do you have for evolution? I suggest you watch the video I posted, evolution is dead. It proves that evolution as well as abiogenesis is a false narrative.

You have evidence of god? Like what?

Careful. If you ask questions or shoot holes in his ridiculous ideas he puts you on ignore. lol

 

[Taz]

The universe does not require a cause. The laws of physics explain the BB quite well. Gravity pulls the matter in, and at a certain point the mass causes an explosion sending the matter outward. The fact that you claim nothing is eternal does not change that.

So you just simply ignore the law of cause and effect? And where did the laws of physics come from? No matter what crazy ideas you guys come up with, you cannot even begin to explain why anything exists. You're clueless, but refuse to admit it.

And it's so easy for you to say God did it. No need to bother trying to learn anything more at that point.

My faith in God is based on evidence. What evidence do you have for evolution? I suggest you watch the video I posted, evolution is dead. It proves that evolution as well as abiogenesis is a false narrative.

You have evidence of god? Like what?

Careful. If you ask questions or shoot holes in his ridiculous ideas he puts you on ignore. lol

He'll probably respond with an unwatchable super long video, which is the same thing as being ignored, lol.

 

[hobelim]

God is the only rational explanation for why anything exists at all. Science has tried to come up with explanations that exclude a Creator, but they are nothing but guesses.

How is God not a guess?

Also, which God?

Yahweh? Krishna? Allah? Odin? Zeus? Ik Onkar? (That's the God of the Sihks, the world's fourth largest religion, BTW.)


So imagine you spend your whole life worshiping Jesus, and then you get to heaven and its' the Sihk God without a gender who is in charge.

The Bible has never been proven wrong about anything. There are also no contradiction about doctrine. Think about that. It was written by about 40 different authors over a 1500 year period and they all agree with each other. Do you have any clue just how impossible that is?

Not true. The bible says jews were in the desert for 40 years but there is not a trace of evidence backing that up.

It says they wandered in the wilderness of Sin for forty years. What does that imply?

Where is the evidence? They turned to a bronze statue of a serpent for healing from the deadly bites of a plague of fiery serpents, not unlike our more than 40 year plague of fiery TV preachers and evangelicals jumping for Jesus while sucking the brains out of the gullible in tents and filling them with a deadly highly contagious and virulent poison.......


You've seen them out there running amok in great numbers. Isn't whatever happened to them deeply disturbing? This ain't no bad dream. Reality is by far more bizarre than any fairy tale ever imagined.


If you don't want to end up more confused you really need to read more carefully.

Try to include in your speculations that the stories in scripture were written by people who were literate for thousands of years in a world of more powerful irrational superstitious and violent oppressors that couldn't read at all for thousands of years.

The authors deliberately obscured and concealed the teaching and diverted the enemy through the use of figurative language, metaphors, allegories, homonyms, hyperbole, etc.

See whats there. See what no one else can see out of fear ignorance or conformity....

Don;'t be diverted by archaic superstitious lore......

 

[hobelim]

I'm going to ignore you now. Wow. Three in one day. New record.

As you are made in the image of your God, that is a tribute to the cowardice of your humanized God.

People tend to conform to the highest ideal that they establish for themselves.

If they believe that God is an irrational and capricious petty tyrant they will become one.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There has to be an origin for the information in the DNA of the very first live organism. DNA is extremely complex, and cannot poof itself into existence. As with computers of any size they are worthless until they are programed. DNA, same thing. Who was intelligent enough to construct the DNA code that was necessary for life to exist?
Google the DNA of a single celled organism and you'll realize that it could not have happened by chance.
So says science, anyway. Nothing happens by chance. The Theory of Randomness says nothing is random, not even chaos. There is order and patterns even in chaos. And just like DNA, even chaos in it's initial stage has to be programed.
Find the origin of information, and you will find God..

No reason to believe DNA just appeared one day with the complexity it has today. More likely that it started as a random variation on a chemical reaction, or some other natural aspect, and slowly developed through millennia until it advanced to the complexity it is at today, just like every other aspect of evolution.

Problem with that. DNA is an unstable molecule. It requires proteins that detect and correct errors. DNA cannot exist without proteins, but the information to make proteins is in the DNA. Catch 22.

That's not a "catch-22", it's just a measure self-subsistence. Persistence, overall. DNA evolved, too, as did the proteins it creates.. There is no reason think otherwise.

Simply not true. The first DNA was complex.

How do you know that?

How do you not? There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. Scientists know that by extracting the DNA from single celled organisms.
Had we known about DNA during Darwin's time we never would have heard about Darwin.

 

[BULLDOG]

No reason to believe DNA just appeared one day with the complexity it has today. More likely that it started as a random variation on a chemical reaction, or some other natural aspect, and slowly developed through millennia until it advanced to the complexity it is at today, just like every other aspect of evolution.

Problem with that. DNA is an unstable molecule. It requires proteins that detect and correct errors. DNA cannot exist without proteins, but the information to make proteins is in the DNA. Catch 22.

That's not a "catch-22", it's just a measure self-subsistence. Persistence, overall. DNA evolved, too, as did the proteins it creates.. There is no reason think otherwise.

Simply not true. The first DNA was complex.

How do you know that?

How do you not? There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. Scientists know that by extracting the DNA from single celled organisms.
Had we known about DNA during Darwin's time we never would have heard about Darwin.

Not really an answer to my question.

 

[edthecynic]

There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. Scientists know that by extracting the DNA from single celled organisms.

The Simplest Living Organism Ever Has 437 Genes and Was Made in a Laboratory

The work, published Thursday in Science, describes a self-replicating bacterium invented by Venter and his team that contains just 437 genes, a "genome smaller than that of any autonomously replicating cell found in nature," according to the paper.

 

[edthecynic]

There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. Scientists know that by extracting the DNA from single celled organisms.

Virus Structure

Lecture 2: Virus Structure

All viruses contain the following two components: 1) a nucleic acid genome and 2) a protein capsid that covers the genome. Together this is called the nucleocapsid. In addition, many animal viruses contain a 3) lipid envelope. The entire intact virus is called thevirion. The structure and composition of these components can vary widely.

A: Viral Genomes: While the genomes of all known cells are comprised of double stranded DNA, the genomes of viruses can be comprised of single or double stranded DNA or RNA. They can vary greatly in size, from approximately 5-10 kb (Papovaviridae, Parvoviridae, etc.) to greater than 100-200 kb (Herpesviridae, Poxviridae). The known structures of viral genomes are summarized below.

DNA: Double Stranded - linear or circular

Single Stranded - linear or circular

Other Structures - gapped circles

RNA: Double Stranded - linear

Single Stranded - linear : These single stranded genomes can be either + sense, - sense, or ambisense The sense strand is the one that can serve directly as mRNA and code for protein, so for these viruses, the viral RNA is infectious. The viral mRNA from - strand viruses is not infectious, since it needs to be copied into the + strand before it can be translated. In an ambisense virus, part of the genome is the sense strand, and part is the antisense.

The genome of some RNA viruses is segmented, meaning that a virus particle contains several different molecules of RNA, like different chromosomes.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Darwin believed we went from simple to complex. He was wrong. There is no "simple" form of DNA.
Who programed DNA to produce life? That information had to come from somewhere. Even the most scummy pond, then or now, does not have the information necessary to form DNA or life.
Find simple here:
B-Form, A-Form, Z-Form of DNA

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This is silly. You can still agree with every accepted scientific theory and say, "God did that!". You should give up this false dichotomy...your attempts to undermine science will always fail.

Then perhaps you could tell us where the universe came from. It is a scientific fact that nothing physical can create itself.

The universe came from the Big Bang. What was before that and how the BB came to be is still unknown. But at least scientists are looking, as opposed to theists, who aren't even looking for any proof.

As I have stated multiple times already, nothing physical can create itself. Also, consider this. Space and time are a part of the physical universe. So where and when did the BB happen if there was no where or when yet? No matter what theories scientists come up with, they cannot escape the reality that the universe requires a cause. That cause must be eternal since you cannot have an infinite regression of causes. What does that leave us? The only rational explanation is a Creator.

The universe does not require a cause. The laws of physics explain the BB quite well. Gravity pulls the matter in, and at a certain point the mass causes an explosion sending the matter outward. The fact that you claim nothing is eternal does not change that.

So you just simply ignore the law of cause and effect? And where did the laws of physics come from? No matter what crazy ideas you guys come up with, you cannot even begin to explain why anything exists. You're clueless, but refuse to admit it.

"No matter what crazy ideas you guys come up with, you cannot even begin to explain why anything exists."

And neither can you. The difference being, the possible explanations offered by materialists can explain these things, while your god fantasy explains exactly nothing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Darwin believed we went from simple to complex. He was wrong. There is no "simple" form of DNA.
Who programed DNA to produce life? That information had to come from somewhere. Even the most scummy pond, then or now, does not have the information necessary to form DNA or life.
Find simple here:
B-Form, A-Form, Z-Form of DNA

"Darwin believed we went from simple to complex. He was wrong. There is no "simple" form of DNA. "

You are off base. Evolution does not tackle the formation of DNA. It explains the diversity of species. And, of course, the "simpler" forms of DNA would not be called "DNA", so your statement is goofy from the start.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

How is God not a guess?

Also, which God?

Yahweh? Krishna? Allah? Odin? Zeus? Ik Onkar? (That's the God of the Sihks, the world's fourth largest religion, BTW.)


So imagine you spend your whole life worshiping Jesus, and then you get to heaven and its' the Sihk God without a gender who is in charge.

The Bible has never been proven wrong about anything. There are also no contradiction about doctrine. Think about that. It was written by about 40 different authors over a 1500 year period and they all agree with each other. Do you have any clue just how impossible that is?

Not true. The bible says jews were in the desert for 40 years but there is not a trace of evidence backing that up.

Sure there is. There is a historical record called the Old Testament.

You are using the bible to prove what the bible says?

Just as someone would use any other ancient documents to prove something. The accuracy of the Old Testament has been verified countless times. In fact, several ancient cities are mentioned. Archeologists have actually used the Bible to help them find these cities, and they were right where the Bible said they were. One of them was Jericho. Guess what. The walls fell outward, just like the Bible said. Others are Sodom and Gamorrah. Guess what. They were destroyed, just like the Bible said. By fire and brimstone.

"The accuracy of the Old Testament has been verified countless times. "

ANOTHER shameless lie. Damn dude, you will say ANYTHING.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No reason to believe DNA just appeared one day with the complexity it has today. More likely that it started as a random variation on a chemical reaction, or some other natural aspect, and slowly developed through millennia until it advanced to the complexity it is at today, just like every other aspect of evolution.

Problem with that. DNA is an unstable molecule. It requires proteins that detect and correct errors. DNA cannot exist without proteins, but the information to make proteins is in the DNA. Catch 22.

That's not a "catch-22", it's just a measure self-subsistence. Persistence, overall. DNA evolved, too, as did the proteins it creates.. There is no reason think otherwise.

Simply not true. The first DNA was complex.

How do you know that?

How do you not? There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. Scientists know that by extracting the DNA from single celled organisms.
Had we known about DNA during Darwin's time we never would have heard about Darwin.

"There is no such thing as a simple form of DNA. "

Wrong. Completely wrong, and you literally just made that up. For one, RNA. Secondly, scientists have been studying simpler forms of DNA for decades. Here is some light reading for you:

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/83/i12/8312notw8.html

How Life Began: New Research Suggests Simple Approach

 

[Asclepias]

Verse 10. - Was black like an oven. The translation is misleading; there is no real parallel to Lamentations 4:8. Render, gloweth. It is the feverish glow produced by gnawing hunger which is meant. The terrible famine; rather, the burning heat of hunger. Hariri, the humoristic author of the cycle of stories in rhymed Arabic prose and verse, called 'Makamat,' puts into the mouth of his ne'er do well Abu Seid very similar words to describe a famished man -

So you must believe the Hebrews were Black if you believe the OT?

Where does it say that?

A couple of places. Who founded Egypt and Canaan?

Chapter and verse, please. Let's see it.

Lamations 5:10 for starters.

"The famine has blackened our skin as though baked in an oven."

No ones skin turns Black due to famine unless they are very brown skinned like so many African Americans. Thats a medical fact.

Now answer my question. who founded Egypt and Canaan?

How was it misleading and who told you it didnt have a parallel to 4:8? They are talking about the results of the famine upon their skin color.

"But now their faces are blacker than soot. No one recognizes them in the streets. Their skin sticks to their bones; it is as dry and hard as wood."

Youre still dodging my question about who founded Egypt and Canaan.

First known portrait of Jesus.

 

[BULLDOG]

Verse 10. - Was black like an oven. The translation is misleading; there is no real parallel to Lamentations 4:8. Render, gloweth. It is the feverish glow produced by gnawing hunger which is meant. The terrible famine; rather, the burning heat of hunger. Hariri, the humoristic author of the cycle of stories in rhymed Arabic prose and verse, called 'Makamat,' puts into the mouth of his ne'er do well Abu Seid very similar words to describe a famished man -

Where does it say that?

A couple of places. Who founded Egypt and Canaan?

Chapter and verse, please. Let's see it.

Lamations 5:10 for starters.

"The famine has blackened our skin as though baked in an oven."

No ones skin turns Black due to famine unless they are very brown skinned like so many African Americans. Thats a medical fact.

Now answer my question. who founded Egypt and Canaan?

How was it misleading and who told you it didnt have a parallel to 4:8? They are talking about the results of the famine upon their skin color.

"But now their faces are blacker than soot. No one recognizes them in the streets. Their skin sticks to their bones; it is as dry and hard as wood."

Youre still dodging my question about who founded Egypt and Canaan.

First known portrait of Jesus.

Stop it. You know Jesus was a white republican born in the good old USA. Probably in Alabama