Refusal over personal beliefs

[OKTexas]

People bought tickets...........an exchange of money for a service.........being entertained..................But the bands said we will not entertain you because we disagree with the laws there after selling them the tickets.....................

So basically they are descriminating against all types of people there............Said they'd give them their money back..........In regards to the bakers they refused service without money........In the band situation they had already been paid......................

Tsk tsk..............

And everyone will get their money back. Since the refusal to perform applied to everyone, not just the people who supported this insane law, there was no "descrimination".

So the baker can say he'll do it and just not do it, give the folks their money back and everything is good, right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nope, let me tell you why.

If Ted Nugent chose to cancel a show for whatever political reason and refund everyone's money then PA laws would not apply. Just as if a baker chose to close their business because they didn't like whatever laws are in place in their community, they could and PA laws wouldn't be an issue.

You guys, seriously have some awful arguments in this thread.

So Bruce isn't going to perform again? I call bull shit to that. Prove it

Uh, who said he isn't going to perform again?

You said if the baker closes his business, he doesn't have to bake a *** cake. So show that Bruce is closing his business since Bruce doesn't want to perform for gays in North Carolina

Ok, the baker chooses to close his business for a day in protest over PA laws, better? Are you purposefully dense?

Ah. You didn't say close his business "for a day." You said close his business. In re-reading it, you had to see that. Why just not say you weren't clear, but that's what you meant?

And I seriously doubt that would work. And it's ridiculous if the baker did have to do that because dickwad fags wanted to be asses and force him to bake a cake when there were other bakers all around.

BTW, I'll let you eat the cake someone is forced to bake, I'll pass myself. I'd have too many visuals of what they could have done with it. I just hope they keep in mind the militant queers who made them bake it aren't the only ones eating it

You have that right. Rule number one about eating in a restaurant: never send your food back to the chef with a complaint.

 

[HappyJoy]

The Marriage department? Really?

Texas gay marriage: How to get a marriage license in Travis County | All Ablog Austin

Now

You should be the one quietly going away, you've done yourself no favors at all.

I stand by my opinion.................I'll go away when I please............

You have a bar...........saved up to own your own business..........everything is great...............and then gays start visiting.........no biggie at first...........but it bothers some customers.....then more come......straghts leave.....more come and the next thing you have is bar known as the GAY BAR.........

Which is why in this day and age they should do a members only club set up.........so you can deny non members as you choose......many do this for this very reason......so their place stays how they want it to stay..............

If you're not a gay bar then you're not a gay bar. I guess you're probably going to advertize to the clientele you want. Anyway, I've never heard of this being a problem. So, might I suggest you go out and find that odd one in a million example and come back to us and report?

In other news. Do you know what a county clerk is?

CC in SLC are not forced to sign gay marriage licenses. They go find someone who will.

Someone else who doesn't understand what Kim Davis did for a living.

 

[JoeB131]

Ticket holders would also have cause for an action, by spending their money, they also have a contract, sounds like a beautiful class action suit to me.

Actually, they would only have cause to get the cost of tickets back.

 

[JoeB131]

So the baker can say he'll do it and just not do it, give the folks their money back and everything is good, right?

Concerts aren't a public accommodation.

Businesses are.

You don't have a case, here, guy. But if you want to piss away tens of thousands of dollars over a $50.00 concert ticket, have at it.

 

[Centinel]

So the baker can say he'll do it and just not do it, give the folks their money back and everything is good, right?

Concerts aren't a public accommodation.

Businesses are.

You don't have a case, here, guy. But if you want to piss away tens of thousands of dollars over a $50.00 concert ticket, have at it.

Public accomodation laws are inherently unjust. They result in government force being used against a person who hasn't trespassed against anyone's person or property. Violence is always ethically unjustified, except in response to trespass or threat of trespass.

 

[kaz]

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy authorized by the Commerce Clause, in no way ‘violating’ religious liberty or personal beliefs.

The commerce clause gives congress authority to regulate commerce among the several states. How are public accommodation laws necessary and proper for carrying this power into execution.

Clayton is a vacuous blow hard. He says that all the time about the commerce clause. I ask him over and over how that authorizes the feds to regulate local businesses and the wind bag runs away and hides

 

[Centinel]

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy authorized by the Commerce Clause, in no way ‘violating’ religious liberty or personal beliefs.

The commerce clause gives congress authority to regulate commerce among the several states. How are public accommodation laws necessary and proper for carrying this power into execution.

Clayton is a vacuous blow hard. He says that all the time about the commerce clause. I ask him over and over how that authorizes the feds to regulate local businesses and the wind bag runs away and hides

Yeah, I've noticed the same behavior myself.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

People bought tickets...........an exchange of money for a service.........being entertained..................But the bands said we will not entertain you because we disagree with the laws there after selling them the tickets.....................

So basically they are descriminating against all types of people there............Said they'd give them their money back..........In regards to the bakers they refused service without money........In the band situation they had already been paid......................

Tsk tsk..............

Wrong.

This is as idiotic as it is ridiculous.

 

[kaz]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

People bought tickets...........an exchange of money for a service.........being entertained..................But the bands said we will not entertain you because we disagree with the laws there after selling them the tickets.....................

So basically they are descriminating against all types of people there............Said they'd give them their money back..........In regards to the bakers they refused service without money........In the band situation they had already been paid......................

Tsk tsk..............

Wrong.

This is as idiotic as it is ridiculous.

Agreed, just like forcing someone to bake someone else a cake. But it's your standard, why does it suddenly go away?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

 

[Seawytch]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

You're not very smart are you?


CLEARLY these performers are still performing, they are simply discriminating who they will perform for. That's just a fact. Now , myself I believe they have that right. You have in another thread we were in explicity stated that you don't believe a baker has the right to discriminate who they bake a cake for, whilst I certainly believe they do. My beliefs are the same in both situations, you however can't reconcile your diametrically opposed opinions and so now must resort to pretending that picking and choosing where you will perform is not discrimination.

Educate yourself child.

 

[kaz]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

Gays, blacks, women, the elderly, Hispanics, Muslims, none of them can go to his show, clear discrimination. I mean this is a country that forces it's citizens to bake cake's for each other. We force citizens to take pictured of each other. Why is not forcing citizens to play music for each other suddenly OK?

 

[Seawytch]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

You're not very smart are you?


CLEARLY these performers are still performing, they are simply discriminating who they will perform for. That's just a fact. Now , myself I believe they have that right. You have in another thread we were in explicity stated that you don't believe a baker has the right to discriminate who they bake a cake for, whilst I certainly believe they do. My beliefs are the same in both situations, you however can't reconcile your diametrically opposed opinions and so now must resort to pretending that picking and choosing where you will perform is not discrimination.

Educate yourself child.

Except they aren't. No single group was identified as a target for discrimination.

If you own a restaurant and you don't want to serve African Americans, what can you do?

 

[Seawytch]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

Gays, blacks, women, the elderly, Hispanics, Muslims, none of them can go to his show, clear discrimination. I mean this is a country that forces it's citizens to bake cake's for each other. We force citizens to take pictured of each other. Why is not forcing citizens to play music for each other suddenly OK?

It's not. They can go to his concerts...just not in NC because he's not having any there.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

You're not very smart are you?


CLEARLY these performers are still performing, they are simply discriminating who they will perform for. That's just a fact. Now , myself I believe they have that right. You have in another thread we were in explicity stated that you don't believe a baker has the right to discriminate who they bake a cake for, whilst I certainly believe they do. My beliefs are the same in both situations, you however can't reconcile your diametrically opposed opinions and so now must resort to pretending that picking and choosing where you will perform is not discrimination.

Educate yourself child.

Except they aren't. No single group was identified as a target for discrimination.

If you own a restaurant and you don't want to serve African Americans, what can you do?

Stop trying to justify it. It is what it is, these guys are discriminating PERIOD. Do you know what the word discrimination means? Do you need a dictionary? It is QUITE clear that saying "I'm not doing a concert here because of _______" is discriminatory. Once again, I support their right to do so, you pretend it isn't discrimination (or perhaps are just stupid)

 

[kaz]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

Gays, blacks, women, the elderly, Hispanics, Muslims, none of them can go to his show, clear discrimination. I mean this is a country that forces it's citizens to bake cake's for each other. We force citizens to take pictured of each other. Why is not forcing citizens to play music for each other suddenly OK?

It's not. They can go to his concerts...just not in NC because he's not having any there.

Exactly, he's still operating, he didn't shut down, and he's discriminating against some of his customers while not discriminating against others. Clear violation of PA laws, he should have to pay $100K, just like if he was refusing to bake cakes for people

 

[kaz]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

Gays, blacks, women, the elderly, Hispanics, Muslims, none of them can go to his show, clear discrimination. I mean this is a country that forces it's citizens to bake cake's for each other. We force citizens to take pictured of each other. Why is not forcing citizens to play music for each other suddenly OK?

It's not. They can go to his concerts...just not in NC because he's not having any there.

And queers can still get cakes, just not from the people who don't want to bake cakes for queers. No harm no foul. Well, that's my rule, not yours. Yours is supporting fining people $100K for not wanting to do things for each other. Well, except when it's not ...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service" rule does not apply anymore???? Hmmmm...I see them all the time in various businesses....so what gives? I guess I better find one of those businesses, act like an asshole and when they refuse to sell me their goods and/or services? I will simply get some ambulance chasing barrister to hammer out an of court settlement that works on a contingency bases......

and if they refused you the right to service based on your race, gender, sexual orientation or religion or ethnicity, and they have a public accommodation law that protects that, then you'd probably have case.

Which of course proves that the PA laws extend rights to certain groups that other groups don't have , making PA laws unconstitutional.

What "group" was discriminated against by him cancelling his show?

If you close shop altogether rather than serve gays/blacks/Christians etc., you're not discriminating.

You're not very smart are you?


CLEARLY these performers are still performing, they are simply discriminating who they will perform for. That's just a fact. Now , myself I believe they have that right. You have in another thread we were in explicity stated that you don't believe a baker has the right to discriminate who they bake a cake for, whilst I certainly believe they do. My beliefs are the same in both situations, you however can't reconcile your diametrically opposed opinions and so now must resort to pretending that picking and choosing where you will perform is not discrimination.

Educate yourself child.

Except they aren't. No single group was identified as a target for discrimination.

If you own a restaurant and you don't want to serve African Americans, what can you do?

I asked this before, but now I'll ask you:

If a black owned bakery has a customer come in and say he's the Grand Poobah for the KKK, and wants the black baker to bake him a cake for their annual Hang the N party, do you believe that baker has the right to refuse to make the cake???