Reasons why liberals can't understand the real world

[TakeAStepBack]

You said it does not define the concept people are attempting to get across, so I was asking just what it was they meant when they used the word. Giving me a definition and saying it doesn't apply is giving me nothing at all.

When you use the word "liberal" to describe a particular position, what is it you mean by the word?

Holy shit you're 7 shades of dull.

Those who claim to be liberal, are nothing of the sort. What they are, are progressive authoritarians. I've made this all very clear. Nothing in modern day "liberal" position fits the description of liberalism. You've been given the definition of liberalism, and this has been explained to you now twice.

You either can grasp this elementary concept, or there is little hope for you.

Thank you for your pigeonholing...I would like to comment on your myopic situation by adding that conservatives with their Bibles are authoritarians also..You are no conservative and many in the GOP are not conservative they are liberals, gays, anarchist and other groups that want to be part of the system...If conservative ideas were in play when the GOP is in power how can you explain the first Bush term in office? There was no fiscal restraint, no welfare reduction or elimination, no attempt to put us on a track of strong industry and manufacturing and he damn sure didn't do anything that affected illegals from entering our nation, in fact it increased during that time.

An anarchist that wants to be part of the system?

Anyway, no one is saying that conservatives of the day aren't also authoritarians. Feel better now, spanky?

 

[Wry Catcher]

What I've shown is that modern day "liberals" aren't liberals at all. We have things like dictionaries and such in order to make these types of distinctions. I know, really complex shit for Progressive Authoritarians who've spent much time changing definitions around to suit their authoritarian agenda.

You have shown something?

I know you have said something. Several times, in fact. But have you shown it to be true? No. You haven't.

I have an open offer to anyone. You may ask any unloaded, honest question and I will give you an honest answer. You might then begin to grasp what a liberal thinks and believes.

Oddly enough.....I've never had one of you nutters take me up on the offer.

You want to try?

You can answer the philosophical questions associated with the dictionary definition of liberalism.

I already posted it for you. Do believe in and advocate for those things? I highly doubt it. From you personally, all I've ever seen is Obamacare type cheer-leading or the typical condescending remarks from modern Progressive Authoritarians.

But I'll wait and see how you measure up as a liberal by its definition.

Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com

A liberal arts education:


Even before our nation’s founders immortalized their eloquent vision of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, Yale College was instilling similar values in its students. Since our founding in 1701, generations of undergraduates have sought education and enlightenment at Yale in a dedicated pursuit of knowledge and leadership skills.

Yale is committed to the idea of a liberal arts education through which students think and learn across disciplines, literally liberating or freeing the mind to its fullest potential. The essence of such an education is not what you study but the result – gaining the ability to think critically and independently and to write, reason, and communicate clearly – the foundation for all professions.

There is no specific class you have to take at Yale, but you are required to learn broadly and deeply. Depth is covered in your major. Breadth is covered in three study areas (the humanities and arts, the sciences, and the social sciences) and three skill areas (writing, quantitative reasoning, and foreign language). A Yale education instills in students the values, goals, skills, and knowledge they need to pursue inspiring work, to take joy in lifetime learning, and to lead successful and meaningful lives.

Link: A Liberal Arts Education | Yale College Admissions

It's clear that writing and quantitative reasoning are not the strong suits of members of the echo chamber, most simply use the word "fuck" in all of its permutations since they lack basic English skills. For many the foreign language in which they write is English.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You have shown something?

I know you have said something. Several times, in fact. But have you shown it to be true? No. You haven't.

I have an open offer to anyone. You may ask any unloaded, honest question and I will give you an honest answer. You might then begin to grasp what a liberal thinks and believes.

Oddly enough.....I've never had one of you nutters take me up on the offer.

You want to try?

You can answer the philosophical questions associated with the dictionary definition of liberalism.

I already posted it for you. Do believe in and advocate for those things? I highly doubt it. From you personally, all I've ever seen is Obamacare type cheer-leading or the typical condescending remarks from modern Progressive Authoritarians.

But I'll wait and see how you measure up as a liberal by its definition.

Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com

A liberal arts education:


Even before our nation’s founders immortalized their eloquent vision of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, Yale College was instilling similar values in its students. Since our founding in 1701, generations of undergraduates have sought education and enlightenment at Yale in a dedicated pursuit of knowledge and leadership skills.

Yale is committed to the idea of a liberal arts education through which students think and learn across disciplines, literally liberating or freeing the mind to its fullest potential. The essence of such an education is not what you study but the result – gaining the ability to think critically and independently and to write, reason, and communicate clearly – the foundation for all professions.

There is no specific class you have to take at Yale, but you are required to learn broadly and deeply. Depth is covered in your major. Breadth is covered in three study areas (the humanities and arts, the sciences, and the social sciences) and three skill areas (writing, quantitative reasoning, and foreign language). A Yale education instills in students the values, goals, skills, and knowledge they need to pursue inspiring work, to take joy in lifetime learning, and to lead successful and meaningful lives.

Link: A Liberal Arts Education | Yale College Admissions

It's clear that writing and quantitative reasoning are not the strong suits of members of the echo chamber, most simply use the word "fuck" in all of its permutations since they lack basic English skills. For many the foreign language in which they write is English.

A liberal Arts education.....


You're such a dumb fuckin' Statist, Wry.

 

[PratchettFan]

Of course I am a proponent of all of those things and more. I also think that anyone who is a proponent of conscription into government schemes does not believe in the autonomy and freedom of the individual.

See social security, ACA and dozens of other government schemes as examples.

Sounds like you lack a few important details in liberalism. SO I rest my case.

Ok. Then let's take your responses.

Do you believe in individual freedom and the autonomy of the individual? You are opposed to any form of restriction on abortions. You oppose any restrictions upon drug use. You oppose any type of zoning restrictions. I should be able to drive drunk so long as I don't actually hit anyone. The list can go on, but let's start there.

Do you believe in a gold standard, self regulating markets and no barriers (free) to competition? You are in favor of monopolies. I should be able to package rat feces and sell it as a headache remedy.

Do you believe in the inherent good of human kind, the protection of civil/political liberties? I would ask you to define "inherent good" and "civil/political liberties" but I don't think we need another argument on that.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I've always said liberalism is a war against the obvious.

This article nails it right down to the ground.

3) Liberals emphasize feeling superior, not superior results. Liberalism is all about appearances, not outcomes. What matters to liberals is how a program makes them FEEL about themselves, not whether it works or not. Thus a program like Headstart, which sounds good because it's designed to help children read, makes liberals feel good about themselves, even though the program doesn't work and wastes billions. A ban on DDT makes liberals feel good about themselves because they're "protecting the environment" even though millions of people have died as a result. For liberals, it's not what a program does in the real world; it's about whether they feel better about themselves for supporting it.

7 Reasons Why Liberals Are Incapable of Understanding The World - John Hawkins - Page full

That's why when you argue with liberals about the failure of the War on Poverty, the Failure of Headstart, the Failure of Obamacare (for pity sake), liberals won't address the actual FACTS about the failure.

Instead they will attack you for being against the "good intentions" of those laws and initiatives. Nor will they address the damage that's been done to the family. Nope they won't talk about any of that. Instead they will banter about the good intentions and try to change the subject to why YOU are against those good intentions.

It's never about the actual results. Nope it's about them feeling "morally" superior to you regardless of whether it helps a single solitary person.

Hawkins couldn't find reality if I presented it to him on a sliver platter, and nether can anyone who believes his ideological drivel so I'll help you out.

In the real world lots of people need help. In the real world men aren't angels. In the real world there is no free lunch. In the real world you were born with enemies so try not to make extra ones when possible. In the real world life is brutal and decent people try to round off the sharp edges. In the real world capitalism is terrific but neither moral, without issues, or the answer to every problem. In the real world you pay your taxes and you pay for things that you don't like or that don't help you. In the real world you make compromises and let others get their way from time to time. In the real world you focus on what matters, not what grabs your attention or gets handed to you because having you care helps someone with an agenda out. In the real world when you don't grow up you see the world like Hawkins does...

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Of course I am a proponent of all of those things and more. I also think that anyone who is a proponent of conscription into government schemes does not believe in the autonomy and freedom of the individual.

See social security, ACA and dozens of other government schemes as examples.

Sounds like you lack a few important details in liberalism. SO I rest my case.

Ok. Then let's take your responses.

Do you believe in individual freedom and the autonomy of the individual? You are opposed to any form of restriction on abortions. You oppose any restrictions upon drug use. You oppose any type of zoning restrictions. I should be able to drive drunk so long as I don't actually hit anyone. The list can go on, but let's start there.

Do you believe in a gold standard, self regulating markets and no barriers (free) to competition? You are in favor of monopolies. I should be able to package rat feces and sell it as a headache remedy.

Do you believe in the inherent good of human kind, the protection of civil/political liberties? I would ask you to define "inherent good" and "civil/political liberties" but I don't think we need another argument on that.

Holy shit.

1. Yes, I am opposed to those things. The individual, as long as the decisions do not infringe upon someone else, should be free to chose what they want to do. Abortion is a doctor/patient issue, not a State issue. Drug use is a personal decision, not a State decision. The list is endless.

2. Competition without barrier does not equal monopoly. Quite the opposite. Monopolies are the result of government interference and favoritism.
Selling rat shit as a headache remedy? You actual think people are stupid, then. So you do not believe in humanity as good. You think the opposite of that by suggesting that people would sell rat shit and that people would buy it. Thanks for clearing up that point at which you're not liberal at all.

 

[PratchettFan]

Of course I am a proponent of all of those things and more. I also think that anyone who is a proponent of conscription into government schemes does not believe in the autonomy and freedom of the individual.

See social security, ACA and dozens of other government schemes as examples.

Sounds like you lack a few important details in liberalism. SO I rest my case.

Ok. Then let's take your responses.

Do you believe in individual freedom and the autonomy of the individual? You are opposed to any form of restriction on abortions. You oppose any restrictions upon drug use. You oppose any type of zoning restrictions. I should be able to drive drunk so long as I don't actually hit anyone. The list can go on, but let's start there.

Do you believe in a gold standard, self regulating markets and no barriers (free) to competition? You are in favor of monopolies. I should be able to package rat feces and sell it as a headache remedy.

Do you believe in the inherent good of human kind, the protection of civil/political liberties? I would ask you to define "inherent good" and "civil/political liberties" but I don't think we need another argument on that.

Holy shit.

1. Yes, I am opposed to those things. The individual, as long as the decisions do not infringe upon someone else, should be free to chose what they want to do. Abortion is a doctor/patient issue, not a State issue. Drug use is a personal decision, not a State decision. The list is endless.

2. Competition without barrier does not equal monopoly. Quite the opposite. Monopolies are the result of government interference and favoritism.
Selling rat shit as a headache remedy? You actual think people are stupid, then. So you do not believe in humanity as good. You think the opposite of that by suggesting that people would sell rat shit and that people would buy it. Thanks for clearing up that point at which you're not liberal at all.

Actually, competition without barrier does mean monopoly. Any reasonable examination of history will show you that.

Yes. If you sold rat shit people would buy it. They have sold it and people bought it. People, especially people who are desperate, will buy anything if you tell them it will help.

No, I don't believe humanity is "good". You have to be absolutely blind to history to think that.

I never said I was a liberal.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No, it does not. And history does not show that because any monopoly, is government sponsored. Including government itself.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You'll be hard pressed to find a monopoly that did not seek protections or favors from government.

Competition means just that. So products and services become better over time. Which is why it's absurd to even say someone would sell rat shit and have a steady supply of buyers. People who actually sell real headache remedies will have these idiots out of business before sundown. Unless of course they get the government to sponsor the sale of rat shit and mandate people to buy. Then you'd have a monopoly.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You can answer the philosophical questions associated with the dictionary definition of liberalism.

I already posted it for you. Do believe in and advocate for those things? I highly doubt it. From you personally, all I've ever seen is Obamacare type cheer-leading or the typical condescending remarks from modern Progressive Authoritarians.

But I'll wait and see how you measure up as a liberal by its definition.

I gotta tell ya.......it is weird how USMB nutters cannot bring themselves to ask honest, genuine questions. I have invited you to do so. Instead, you suggest that I answer "the philosophical questions associated with the dictionary definition of liberalism".

Why fuck around, bro? Let's take a shot at some honest discourse. I'm here for you.

Was asking you to answer the questions too scholarly for you, Dullard? Do I really need to dumb it down so you can reciprocate what you're asking for - honesty? Fine, i'll do the heavy lifting for you since I realize it's tough.

Do you believe in individual freedom and the autonomy of the individual?

Do you believe in a gold standard, self regulating markets and no barriers (free) to competition?

Do you believe in the inherent good of human kind, the protection of civil/political liberties?

I'm sure you'll find another excuse to dodge the fucking questions again. But you're more or less just a troll so, expectations were already low.

Believe in? Such an odd way to phrase policy preferences.

I am for individual freedom. Absolutely. And autonomy of the individual.

The gold standard? I'm OK without it. Self regulating markets isn't a liberal ideal. The markets need regulation. I also want to protect American industry. So ...nope. I am not a free market at all costs kind of guy.

Humans are inherently good. Political and civil liberties ought to be protected.

Next......asshole. Can you ask a question without the extra bullshit next time?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Right. You do not subscribe to liberalism. OK, then.

As far as individual liberty and autonomy of the individual, would you then say the ACA, as one example, is liberty and autonomy to the individual?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And self regulating markets is a liberal ideal. As the definition clearly states.

 

[jasonnfree]

I've always said liberalism is a war against the obvious.

This article nails it right down to the ground.

3) Liberals emphasize feeling superior, not superior results. Liberalism is all about appearances, not outcomes. What matters to liberals is how a program makes them FEEL about themselves, not whether it works or not. Thus a program like Headstart, which sounds good because it's designed to help children read, makes liberals feel good about themselves, even though the program doesn't work and wastes billions. A ban on DDT makes liberals feel good about themselves because they're "protecting the environment" even though millions of people have died as a result. For liberals, it's not what a program does in the real world; it's about whether they feel better about themselves for supporting it.

7 Reasons Why Liberals Are Incapable of Understanding The World - John Hawkins - Page full

That's why when you argue with liberals about the failure of the War on Poverty, the Failure of Headstart, the Failure of Obamacare (for pity sake), liberals won't address the actual FACTS about the failure.

Instead they will attack you for being against the "good intentions" of those laws and initiatives. Nor will they address the damage that's been done to the family. Nope they won't talk about any of that. Instead they will banter about the good intentions and try to change the subject to why YOU are against those good intentions.

It's never about the actual results. Nope it's about them feeling "morally" superior to you regardless of whether it helps a single solitary person.

Too bad you didnt stick around to see some responses to your thread. Not all attacking is done by the left. You dont even defend the link you posted. Like I said, its easy to find links that justify your beliefs. Trying to defend them is a little harder.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And self regulating markets is a liberal ideal. As the definition clearly states.

Is that the discussion that you wish to have? Is the concept of self regulating markets an ideal that liberals hold dear? That's your play? That's where you want to go? If so.....find someone else.......it's too stupid to hold my interest.

How about this: You think of an honest question....all on your own...that is not a leading question, a loaded question or a statement decorated with a question mark.....and I will answer it honestly.

Let's do one question at a time.....like normal people.

Are you up for that?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Liberalism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


As you can see, modern day "liberals" aren't liberals at all. That's a term these authoritarians have hijacked in their pursuit to power. Up is down, left is right, right is wrong, war is peace, slavery is freedom, etc..etc..

Nothing about the proper definition of liberalism correlates to modern day "liberals". Because these people are not liberal at all.

So you are telling what it is not. What exactly is a liberal?

I gave you the definition. My contention is that modern "liberals" aren't liberals.

Modern "conservatives" aren't conservatives either.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

And self regulating markets is a liberal ideal. As the definition clearly states.

Is that the discussion that you wish to have? Is the concept of self regulating markets an ideal that liberals hold dear? That's your play? That's where you want to go? If so.....find someone else.......it's too stupid to hold my interest.

How about this: You think of an honest question....all on your own...that is not a leading question, a loaded question or a statement decorated with a question mark.....and I will answer it honestly.

Let's do one question at a time.....like normal people.

Are you up for that?

Right. You have nothing to offer I didn't already smear in your face. I asked you ponted questions. You disagree with the very definition of liberalism. You do not subscribe to liberalism by any real measure. That's fine. No need to beat a dead horse. Just be honest about it and don't bother calling yourself a liberal. Thanks.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So you are telling what it is not. What exactly is a liberal?

I gave you the definition. My contention is that modern "liberals" aren't liberals.

Modern "conservatives" aren't conservatives either.

That's great. Start a thread on it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And self regulating markets is a liberal ideal. As the definition clearly states.

Is that the discussion that you wish to have? Is the concept of self regulating markets an ideal that liberals hold dear? That's your play? That's where you want to go? If so.....find someone else.......it's too stupid to hold my interest.

How about this: You think of an honest question....all on your own...that is not a leading question, a loaded question or a statement decorated with a question mark.....and I will answer it honestly.

Let's do one question at a time.....like normal people.

Are you up for that?

Right. You have nothing to offer I didn't already smear in your face. I asked you ponted questions. You disagree with the very definition of liberalism. You do not subscribe to liberalism by any real measure. That's fine. No need to beat a dead horse. Just be honest about it and don't bother calling yourself a liberal. Thanks.

Is it that hard to ask honest questions?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I asked you honest questions, Dullard. If these philosophical questions regarding liberalism are too scholarly for you, there are plenty of troll threads to fap too.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

As far as individual liberty and autonomy of the individual, would you then say the ACA, as one example, is liberty and autonomy to the individual?

Here is one I noticed you were trolling to quickly to bother to answer. Is it that difficult to answer a question? Of course it is.