Really... Unions are Good for the Country

[Oldandtired]

Unions were good for America in our industrial era. Not so sure in a service/consumer economy.

People still gotta work! that means people will still have to be safe where they work, get paid for their efforts and be protected against arbitrary firing.

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

 

[Nosmo King]

People still gotta work! that means people will still have to be safe where they work, get paid for their efforts and be protected against arbitrary firing.

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

 

[uscitizen]

People still gotta work! that means people will still have to be safe where they work, get paid for their efforts and be protected against arbitrary firing.

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

all employees do outstanding jobs?
Have you ever done employee performance appraisals?
Only a handful do outstanding jobs. Just like in politics.

 

[Oldandtired]

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

If an employee is doing an outstanding job, he would not be easily replaced by an in law.

If the owner prefers trimming down so he can enjoy the fruits of his headahces of owning a company and buy a boat, this is bad?

If the employee is doing an outstanding job, to save money on a pension at the expense of the great employee does not make any sense...unless maybe the empoloyee is easily replaceable by a less experienced worker? Then maybe that person is not so outstanding.

Your logic is not logical. You are assuming it is bad to make smart business decisions.

 

[Oldandtired]

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

all employees do outstanding jobs?
Have you ever done employee performance appraisals?
Only a handful do outstanding jobs. Just like in politics.

My point exactly....you simply got ahead of me....

It is up to an employee to make themselves indispensable....

Not up to the employer to deal with what he has...good or bad.

Very basic logic.

Personal responsibility. Strange concept to many of you out there.

 

[uscitizen]

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

 

[Nosmo King]

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

If an employee is doing an outstanding job, he would not be easily replaced by an in law.

If the owner prefers trimming down so he can enjoy the fruits of his headahces of owning a company and buy a boat, this is bad?

If the employee is doing an outstanding job, to save money on a pension at the expense of the great employee does not make any sense...unless maybe the empoloyee is easily replaceable by a less experienced worker? Then maybe that person is not so outstanding.

Your logic is not logical. You are assuming it is bad to make smart business decisions.

My logic dictates that labor is not merely a commodity like raw materials or materials packaging, but human beings who make up the customer base. Cut that out from under a business and what's the point of having a business?

 

[VaYank5150]

I belong to a union even though I don't really want to be. What I don't like about it is they are wanting/demanding a 3% raise for the corrections officers ( yes I am one ) when the county has much less tax revenue do to people property values going down, the list goes on why the county has less money but that not the story. The story is the union doesn't care. I know every department had to take a 5% budget decrease. I'm afraid the union is gonna screw some of us out of a job. If the county cant pay us we are going to get layed off. I'd rather have a job making what I make now then to get a raise and later get layed off.

I employ union workers because my company forces me to. However, in this economy, mu local demanded a 5% wage increase last year, and has already voted on and ratified a 6% wage increase to go into effect in September. My customers simply cannot and will not accept these increases in a time when they are being mandated to find areas to cut costs. there are simply too many non-union competitors out there who do as good, if not better a job than my union guys do. A 6% wage increase on ZERO wages is going to seem awfully pitiful to these guys very soon...

 

[beowolfe]

Unions were good for America in our industrial era. Not so sure in a service/consumer economy.

I think unions are still good for the country. The problem between today and yesterday, is management has become so weak that they cave in to the most ridiculous union demands.....ie The Big Three.

 

[Oldandtired]

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

If an employee is doing an outstanding job, he would not be easily replaced by an in law.

If the owner prefers trimming down so he can enjoy the fruits of his headahces of owning a company and buy a boat, this is bad?

If the employee is doing an outstanding job, to save money on a pension at the expense of the great employee does not make any sense...unless maybe the empoloyee is easily replaceable by a less experienced worker? Then maybe that person is not so outstanding.

Your logic is not logical. You are assuming it is bad to make smart business decisions.

My logic dictates that labor is not merely a commodity like raw materials or materials packaging, but human beings who make up the customer base. Cut that out from under a business and what's the point of having a business?

I agree...they are humans.

They have the ability to make themselves indispensible. Too good to lose so to speak.

BVusiness owners alkso have the choice to trim down when they want....that is the advantage of owning a business.

 

[Oldandtired]

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

 

[KMAN]

Unions were good for America in our industrial era. Not so sure in a service/consumer economy.

People still gotta work! that means people will still have to be safe where they work, get paid for their efforts and be protected against arbitrary firing.

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job?

Great point!

 

[Nosmo King]

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

I can't figure if you're an idealist or a pragmatist. Older workers are the most dispensible by business because their pension and health care benefits tend to start costing a company more. It's cheaper to hire a twenty year old and pay her squat than maintain a loyal fifty year old employee.

 

[Oldandtired]

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

I can't figure if you're an idealist or a pragmatist. Older workers are the most dispensible by business because their pension and health care benefits tend to start costing a company more. It's cheaper to hire a twenty year old and pay her squat than maintain a loyal fifty year old employee.

True...

Unless that loyal 50 year old employee can do a better more efficient job than the 20 year old.

And after 30 years, I would certainly hope he or she can.

ANd just so you know...I am an employer...and that is exactly how I think.

 

[Intense]

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

I can't figure if you're an idealist or a pragmatist. Older workers are the most dispensible by business because their pension and health care benefits tend to start costing a company more. It's cheaper to hire a twenty year old and pay her squat than maintain a loyal fifty year old employee.

That depends on circumstance in the first place. It is not universally true. It is disingenuous to presume so. Secondly, the issue, like all others can be addressed through legislation. Fair hiring and firing laws.

 

[sarahgop]

Is it just me? The Union power seems eerily similar to what the Democrats are trying to do to this country... Once they control everything they can pick and choose who they tell to get lost....

Was America made great because of the people, or because of the Government?

Talks Between British Airways And Unite Union Over Cabin Crew Strikes Collapse | Business | Sky News

i agree with you, kman.

 

[Granny]

I again must ask....

Please explain to me why an employer would arbitrarily fire an employee who is doing an outstanding job.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

If an employee is doing an outstanding job, he would not be easily replaced by an in law.

If the owner prefers trimming down so he can enjoy the fruits of his headahces of owning a company and buy a boat, this is bad?

If the employee is doing an outstanding job, to save money on a pension at the expense of the great employee does not make any sense...unless maybe the empoloyee is easily replaceable by a less experienced worker? Then maybe that person is not so outstanding.

Your logic is not logical. You are assuming it is bad to make smart business decisions.

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

OHH yeah the age thing. Many corps downsize and lay off older workers and then hire younger ones back.
Cheaper insurance rates, etc...

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

Great idea - except that no one is indispensible. There's a lot of "reasons" for terminating people - especially older employees - and it has to do with money.

Really?

So a man with 30 years experience and 50 years old is easily replaced by a man with 2 years experience and 22 years old?

Seems to me the man with 30 years experience did not enhance his skill set over those 30 years. I mean, hell, he was replaced with someone with 28 years less experience.

Personal responsibility. Make yourself indispensible. It is good advice.

I can't figure if you're an idealist or a pragmatist. Older workers are the most dispensible by business because their pension and health care benefits tend to start costing a company more. It's cheaper to hire a twenty year old and pay her squat than maintain a loyal fifty year old employee.

True...

Unless that loyal 50 year old employee can do a better more efficient job than the 20 year old.

And after 30 years, I would certainly hope he or she can.

ANd just so you know...I am an employer...and that is exactly how I think.

AND just so you know ... if that's your attitude you're one employer in a million. Loyalty, a good attitude, good work ethic, and sometimes good (and current) job skills, are sometimes "things of the past." It doesn't matter to the employers - what matters is the bottom line. My former employer used to be a good place to work - today it is nothing but misery for all staff people - it's more than a toxic work environment. They went through a rash of terminations of employees well over the age of 40 (for those who don't know - age 40+ is when age discrimination laws kick in for workers). I was one of those people. With only one exception that I can think of - NOT ONE SINGLE OTHER terminated person deserved to be terminated - we all had good evaluations - some of us had between 10 and 20 years of service. Some of us were well respected and sometimes requested by name to do work for people who were not our direct supervisors. We got old. We got replaced by people who were 20-somethings - less work experience, less knowledge of things they needed to know, a little easier on the eyes in the "Tits and Ass" category - and easier to manipulate, control and con than the older employees. They also work for less pay per hour.

My former employer has had a slew of age discrimination complaints to EEOC, they've had a lot of bad press and have a couple suits working right now. The suit of one of my former co-workers is all over the internet ... even picked up by WSJ. All of us have the attitude "you go, girl!"

Unions suck today. They do absolutely no good for workers ... and should be done away with altogether as far as I'm concerned. They aren't pretty to deal with - oh, and if you go out on strike ... your employer CAN call in temp workers to do your job while you're on strike ... and then they can hire those temps as full-time employees to do what you used to do.

 

[Defiant1]

Think of a reason and it's plausible! To make room for his wife's second cousin. To cut costs because he just financed a boat. To save on paying for a pension if the worker is in her mid fifties.

If an employee is doing an outstanding job, he would not be easily replaced by an in law.

If the owner prefers trimming down so he can enjoy the fruits of his headahces of owning a company and buy a boat, this is bad?

If the employee is doing an outstanding job, to save money on a pension at the expense of the great employee does not make any sense...unless maybe the empoloyee is easily replaceable by a less experienced worker? Then maybe that person is not so outstanding.

Your logic is not logical. You are assuming it is bad to make smart business decisions.

Great idea - except that no one is indispensible. There's a lot of "reasons" for terminating people - especially older employees - and it has to do with money.

I can't figure if you're an idealist or a pragmatist. Older workers are the most dispensible by business because their pension and health care benefits tend to start costing a company more. It's cheaper to hire a twenty year old and pay her squat than maintain a loyal fifty year old employee.

True...

Unless that loyal 50 year old employee can do a better more efficient job than the 20 year old.

And after 30 years, I would certainly hope he or she can.

ANd just so you know...I am an employer...and that is exactly how I think.

AND just so you know ... if that's your attitude you're one employer in a million. Loyalty, a good attitude, good work ethic, and sometimes good (and current) job skills, are sometimes "things of the past." It doesn't matter to the employers - what matters is the bottom line. My former employer used to be a good place to work - today it is nothing but misery for all staff people - it's more than a toxic work environment. They went through a rash of terminations of employees well over the age of 40 (for those who don't know - age 40+ is when age discrimination laws kick in for workers). I was one of those people. With only one exception that I can think of - NOT ONE SINGLE OTHER terminated person deserved to be terminated - we all had good evaluations - some of us had between 10 and 20 years of service. Some of us were well respected and sometimes requested by name to do work for people who were not our direct supervisors. We got old. We got replaced by people who were 20-somethings - less work experience, less knowledge of things they needed to know, a little easier on the eyes in the "Tits and Ass" category - and easier to manipulate, control and con than the older employees. They also work for less pay per hour.

My former employer has had a slew of age discrimination complaints to EEOC, they've had a lot of bad press and have a couple suits working right now. The suit of one of my former co-workers is all over the internet ... even picked up by WSJ. All of us have the attitude "you go, girl!"

Unions suck today. They do absolutely no good for workers ... and should be done away with altogether as far as I'm concerned. They aren't pretty to deal with - oh, and if you go out on strike ... your employer CAN call in temp workers to do your job while you're on strike ... and then they can hire those temps as full-time employees to do what you used to do.

Granny do you still have a 20 year old car or do you have a newer model that requires less time off, costs less to operate, and gets you where you want to go just as well or better?

 

[Granny]

Actually, I have a relatively new car that's in fine condition. Why do you ask?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Is it just me? The Union power seems eerily similar to what the Democrats are trying to do to this country... Once they control everything they can pick and choose who they tell to get lost....

Was America made great because of the people, or because of the Government?

[


i agree with you, kman.

I also agree with kman on that. It is disgusting what is going on in this country today.