Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Jroc]

How is that none of you nutballs mentioned Reagan's blanket offer of pardon to about eight million illegal aliens? That wasn't on any of your lists of Reynaldo's major accomplishments. Seems like a big oversight.

2.9 million signed the old new dealer's offer, but the other five or six million benefited from the issue being taken off the table.

How much do the more mathematically inclined among you nutballs believe that cost honest US citizens looking for work?

We were supposed to secure the boarder we never did, another broken promises from the liberal congress..Reagan admitted it was a mistake so we learn from that and secure the boarder

 

[Jroc]

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says
Brian Faler, ©2013 Bloomberg News
Published 9:37 pm, Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Read more: Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says - SFGate

-------------------

We know the right wing keeps saying The Sky is Falling and and The End is Near, but reality strikes.

You idiot it'll go down slightly then rise again after Obamacare is fully implemented as the CBO projects we have almost 70 to 80 trillion is unfunded liabilities we need to reform these entitlements or we're through as the United States of America

 

[Dante]

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says
Brian Faler, ©2013 Bloomberg News
Published 9:37 pm, Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Read more: Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says - SFGate

-------------------

We know the right wing keeps saying The Sky is Falling and and The End is Near, but reality strikes.

You idiot it'll go down slightly then rise again after Obamacare is fully implemented as the CBO projects we have almost 70 to 80 trillion is unfunded liabilities we need to reform these entitlements or we're through as the United States of America

Now. What about now?

and Obama was supposed to nationalize the banking system and more. You people have run out of gas.

 

[Jroc]

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says
Brian Faler, ©2013 Bloomberg News
Published 9:37 pm, Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Read more: Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says - SFGate

-------------------

We know the right wing keeps saying The Sky is Falling and and The End is Near, but reality strikes.

You idiot it'll go down slightly then rise again after Obamacare is fully implemented as the CBO projects we have almost 70 to 80 trillion is unfunded liabilities we need to reform these entitlements or we're through as the United States of America

Now. What about now?

and Obama was supposed to nationalize the banking system and more. You people have run out of gas.

Yep.. you people only care about now, about yourself . You could give a shit about our children and the people who follow them

 

[Dante]

[
Yep.. you people only care about now, about yourself . You could give a shit about our children and the people who follow them

Oh please!

Hiding behind "the children" now? What's next the flag? Where were you when Columbine went down; when Sandy Hook went down?

You're acting pathetic. Grow up.

 

[Oldstyle]

Hopefully no one posting here is stupid enough to believe anything ever said or posted by me supports the man who hired Bush League revenant Geithner or Clintonistas like Summers. Clinton took the worst elements of ReagaNUT policy to the hoop; opening the borders to undermine American citizen labor, deregulating essential commodities to raise the price of fuel, and opening investment accounts to breaches of faith.

There is NOTHING partisan in my attacks on Reagan or Clinton. I do associate Junebug Bush with the scum of the earth in the nutball party, however. That is because anyone anti-American enough to vote for Junebug in 2004 is basically no damned good. By then it was apparent the boy was over his head. No decent human voted for Bush in 2004. That didn't happen.

As far as the current president? After Bush who is stupid enough to believe another neocon nutball could be elected? Thank Junebug for Obama, people.

My "choice" in 2004 was between George W. Bush and John Kerry. As much as I didn't like many of the things that Bush was doing, Kerry by comparison would have been a jump out of the frying pan into the fire. He's the prototypical "empty suit" albeit with a nice head of hair...a career politician who's all about John Kerry.

I'm from Massachusetts, have watched "JFK Lite" in action for thirty plus years and wouldn't put him in the Oval Office for love nor money. I voted for George W. Bush in 2004because he was a better option than the other guy...just as I voted for Bush over Al Gore four years earlier. With all due respect? That doesn't disqualify me from being a "decent human". It simply makes me a pragmatist.

Well said from the MA personal point of view.

My vote always went to the national interest. Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony put me off him for sure, and your assessment from a local point of view seems valid.

Still, by 2004 it was clear that filthy little cokehead inheritor from Tejas was over his head. Kerry had been a surface based decorated Naval officer. His Winter Soldier testimony brought on the Swift Boat folks, which is how the cookie crumbles. Some people never really get out of the zone; Swift Boaters are entitled to their juvenile take. However, it wasn't much of a decision for me to pick the proven performer over the proven failure.

In sum, the country that re elected a degenerate scum like Junebug deserves the fucking Bush League policies produced. And Obama. It is meet and right that the United States suffer the consequences of ill considered actions, whatever those consequences are.

I'll leave it at that and wish you the best.

With all due respect, Jukes? The fact that John Kerry got "decorated" and then transferred Stateside for the injuries that he incurred was a joke. How you can refer to him as a "proven performer" mystifies me. He used the system back then to claim 3 very minor injuries in a six month period as "Purple Heart" wounds and get the heck out of Vietnam. Then he went back to the US and made up stuff about the people he served with committing attrocities...using his Winter Soldier testimony as his ticket into politics. I have the ultimate respect for those that served their "country" in Vietnam but John Kerry was never about that. He went to Vietnam to serve "himself". He went to Vietnam toting a movie camera to capture his military career on film. Who does that? The fact that John Kerry is our Secretary of State disgusts me, quite frankly.

 

[Dante]

[

With all due respect, Jukes? The fact that John Kerry got "decorated" and then transferred Stateside for the injuries that he incurred was a joke.

How you can refer to him as a "proven performer" mystifies me. He used the system back then to claim 3 very minor injuries in a six month period as "Purple Heart" wounds and get the heck out of Vietnam.

Then he went back to the US and made up stuff about the people he served with committing attrocities...using his Winter Soldier testimony as his ticket into politics. I have the ultimate respect for those that served their "country" in Vietnam but John Kerry was never about that.

He went to Vietnam to serve "himself". He went to Vietnam toting a movie camera to capture his military career on film. Who does that? The fact that John Kerry is our Secretary of State disgusts me, quite frankly.

Stupidest rant ever made against Kerry. Yeah, he volunteered to be shot at so he could make a movie

You should be ashamed for questioning the integrity and honesty of the men who served in the boats with Kerry. You slander men who fought, got wounded and a few who died

You are nothing but an old style armchair warrior bullshit artist

Bronze Star

hurlow testified, "I never heard a shot."[5] Of the three boat commanders present besides Kerry and Thurlow, two are SBVT members who now claim that there was no hostile fire during the incident. But one of them was seriously wounded with a concussion and the other left the scene early on to accompany the wounded to safety.

Only Kerry and Thurlow remained behind to work on damage control.[34] The other boat commander present, Don Droz, was later killed in action; however, his widow recalls Droz's account as being consistent with Kerry's.[35]

Several other witnesses insist that there was hostile fire during the incident. Jim Rassmann, the Special Forces captain Kerry rescued, wrote, "Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river. … When I surfaced, all the Swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water." Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, PCF-94, stated, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water." Wayne Langhofer, who manned the machine gun on Don Droz's PCF-43, stated, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river."[5] Michael Medeiros, aboard PCF-94, recalled "a massive ambush. There were rockets and light machine gun fire plus small arms." Jim Russell, the Psychological Operations Officer of the unit, who was on PCF-43, wrote "All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach… Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river."[36]

Although it is not mentioned in Unfit for Command, Thurlow himself was awarded a Bronze Star for his actions during the same incident. Thurlow's citation includes several phrases indicating hostile fire such as "despite enemy bullets flying about him" and "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire", and speaks of fire directed at "all units" of the five-boat fleet.[37] ]

smell a rat with Swiftboaters?

Silver Star

Kerry's medal citation indicates that he charged into an ambush, killing an enemy preparing to launch a rocket. In his 1969 performance evaluation, Elliot wrote "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG [Lieutenant Junior Grade] Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity.

On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA [Killed in Action]. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach."[43]


However, although Elliott claims that he was not in possession of the facts of the event, the original citation that Elliott wrote (which is not the citation that appears in "Unfit for Command") incorporates most of the details in the after action report. The report states that Kerry chased and shot a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong. In addition, it states that the PCFs were filled with troops, that all three boats turned into the first ambush and beached, that the troops conducted the first sweep, and that while Kerry led the first landing party during the second sweep, the other landing parties and troops followed and took out the VC.

Kerry’s crew members who were there that day do not agree with Elliott’s characterization of the event in his 2004 affidavits.

They contend that the enemy soldier, although wounded, was still a threat.

For example, one of them, Fred Short, said, "The guy was getting ready to stand up with a rocket on his shoulder, coming up. And Mr. Kerry took him out … he would have been about a 30-yard shot. … [T]here's no way he could miss us."[49] Del Sandusky, Kerry’s second in command, described the consequences to the lightly armored Swift Boat: "Charlie would have lit us up like a Roman candle because we're full of fuel, we're full of ammunition."[50] Another witness stated that the VC "had an entry wound at the side of his chest and exit wound at the opposite side of the chest cavity, a wound that was consistent with reports of the man turning to fire a second B-40 rocket."[51]

The only member of SBVT who was present that day, Larry Clayton Lee, has stated he believes Kerry earned the Silver Star.[7]

Another eyewitness, William Rood, a former Chicago Tribune editor, in a 2004 article gave an account that supports Kerry's version of the events of that day. Rood was commander of PCF-23, which was one of the two Swift Boats that accompanied Kerry's PCF-94.

Rood discounted several specific charges made by SBVT about the incident.

The accounts of Vietnamese witnesses are consistent on several points with Rood's. Ba Thanh, the guerrilla killed while carrying the B-40 rocket launcher, was "big and strong" and in his late 20's. Return fire was also intense, according to Vo Van Tam, who was then a local Viet Cong commander: "I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats." No Vietnamese witnesses saw how Thanh died or saw him being chased by an American.[57]

No individual who was present that day has disputed Kerry's version of events, nor suggested that he did not earn the Silver Star, and some said accounts given in Unfit for Command were incorrect.[57]

However, in its October 2004 documentation of its investigation of Kerry's medals, the office of the Navy inspector general described the first, longer version as the "COMUSNAVFOR Vietnam version, signed by VADM Zumwalt" and the second version as the "official version, signed by the delegated award authority, ADM Hyland, CINCPACFLT." As to the third version, the report described it as one of several "duplicate citations" that were issued in 1985 after "considerable correspondence indicating efforts over the years to chase down various citations," and stated that the ones under Lehman's name were likely signed by machine.[62] In addition, in October 2004, Rowan Scarborough of the Washington Times reported:

Navy officials say that there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry's Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts were ever rescinded and that there is no evidence of misconduct in his records.

He did receive new medal citations in the mid-1980s. Officials say the Navy receives scores, and perhaps hundreds, of such requests each year from veterans who want a second copy or have lost the originals.

The citations are simply put through a machine that implants the signature of the current Navy secretary. John Lehman's signature, via a machine, appears on Mr. Kerry's new citation for his Silver Star.[63]

Commenting on the Silver Star issue, Republican Sen. John Warner, who was Under Secretary of the Navy at the time, stated "We did extraordinary, careful checking on that type of medal, a very high one, when it goes through the secretary...I'd stand by the process that awarded that medal, and I think we best acknowledge that his heroism did gain that recognition."[64] Elmo Zumwalt, Commander of the United States Naval Forces in Vietnam at that time, signed Kerry's original Silver Star citation and defended the award in 1996, saying "It is a disgrace to the United States Navy that there's any inference that the [medal] process was anything other than totally honest." Boston Herald, October 28, 1996.

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

My "choice" in 2004 was between George W. Bush and John Kerry. As much as I didn't like many of the things that Bush was doing, Kerry by comparison would have been a jump out of the frying pan into the fire. He's the prototypical "empty suit" albeit with a nice head of hair...a career politician who's all about John Kerry.

I'm from Massachusetts, have watched "JFK Lite" in action for thirty plus years and wouldn't put him in the Oval Office for love nor money. I voted for George W. Bush in 2004because he was a better option than the other guy...just as I voted for Bush over Al Gore four years earlier. With all due respect? That doesn't disqualify me from being a "decent human". It simply makes me a pragmatist.

Well said from the MA personal point of view.

My vote always went to the national interest. Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony put me off him for sure, and your assessment from a local point of view seems valid.

Still, by 2004 it was clear that filthy little cokehead inheritor from Tejas was over his head. Kerry had been a surface based decorated Naval officer. His Winter Soldier testimony brought on the Swift Boat folks, which is how the cookie crumbles. Some people never really get out of the zone; Swift Boaters are entitled to their juvenile take. However, it wasn't much of a decision for me to pick the proven performer over the proven failure.

In sum, the country that re elected a degenerate scum like Junebug deserves the fucking Bush League policies produced. And Obama. It is meet and right that the United States suffer the consequences of ill considered actions, whatever those consequences are.

I'll leave it at that and wish you the best.

With all due respect, Jukes? The fact that John Kerry got "decorated" and then transferred Stateside for the injuries that he incurred was a joke. How you can refer to him as a "proven performer" mystifies me. He used the system back then to claim 3 very minor injuries in a six month period as "Purple Heart" wounds and get the heck out of Vietnam. Then he went back to the US and made up stuff about the people he served with committing attrocities...using his Winter Soldier testimony as his ticket into politics. I have the ultimate respect for those that served their "country" in Vietnam but John Kerry was never about that. He went to Vietnam to serve "himself". He went to Vietnam toting a movie camera to capture his military career on film. Who does that? The fact that John Kerry is our Secretary of State disgusts me, quite frankly.

Tried to show respect for your choice in 2004. You couldn't leave it at that.

As scummy as they are, the leaders of the Swift Boat crowd earned the right to criticize Kerry's conduct in Vietnam. Nothing indicates you earned the right to criticize any service man's legal conduct there.

Winter Soldier testimony and all, John Kerry is morally head and shoulders above the filthy god damned little chickenhawk slimeball fortunate son, Junebug Bush; and NOTHING we know about Kerry's life indicates he ever lived a nanosecond that wasn't morally superior to the war mongering Oedipal wreck who invaded Iraq to show his mommy he could penetrate deeper than daddy.

You voted for the boy. I would rather be dead than do something that despicable. Another point: the word "injury" is not on the Vietnam purple heart award. My command of the English language is not sufficient to describe the magnitude of my contempt for soldiers and civilians who use the word 'injury' to describe combat wounds.

We're done here.

 

[Meathead]

Obama will never be a Reagan..

Reagan cared about people and the country and that was a man who could speak, wrote his own speeches..

Obama reads scripted sermons written for him and hates everything about us or he wouldn't see a need, to transform us with his ugly "visions"

No he has no psychic advisers and he has all his marbles in his second term. Among other things he will not be drooling all over himself while not being able to remember who his cabinet secretaries are.

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." - Ronald Reagan

Obama is simply not the man Reagan was, by any measure.

 

[Jroc]

[
Yep.. you people only care about now, about yourself . You could give a shit about our children and the people who follow them

Oh please!

Hiding behind "the children" now? What's next the flag? Where were you when Columbine went down; when Sandy Hook went down?

You're acting pathetic. Grow up.

Not quite sure what those incidents have to do with spending the country into oblivion and piling impossible debt for future generations

 

[Toronado3800]

Obama will never be a Reagan..

Reagan cared about people and the country and that was a man who could speak, wrote his own speeches..

Obama reads scripted sermons written for him and hates everything about us or he wouldn't see a need, to transform us with his ugly "visions"

No he has no psychic advisers and he has all his marbles in his second term. Among other things he will not be drooling all over himself while not being able to remember who his cabinet secretaries are.

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." - Ronald Reagan

Obama is simply not the man Reagan was, by any measure.

In what regard was Reagan more of a man?

 

[Meathead]

No he has no psychic advisers and he has all his marbles in his second term. Among other things he will not be drooling all over himself while not being able to remember who his cabinet secretaries are.

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." - Ronald Reagan

Obama is simply not the man Reagan was, by any measure.

In what regard was Reagan more of a man?

I thought I made that clear. You do understand what "by any measure" means?

 

[regent]

Reagan carried his little sayings, cliches, bon mots, whatever on three by five cards.

 

[Dante]

[
Yep.. you people only care about now, about yourself . You could give a shit about our children and the people who follow them

Oh please!

Hiding behind "the children" now? What's next the flag? Where were you when Columbine went down; when Sandy Hook went down?

You're acting pathetic. Grow up.

Not quite sure what those incidents have to do with spending the country into oblivion and piling impossible debt for future generations

[

With all due respect, Jukes? The fact that John Kerry got "decorated" and then transferred Stateside for the injuries that he incurred was a joke.

How you can refer to him as a "proven performer" mystifies me. He used the system back then to claim 3 very minor injuries in a six month period as "Purple Heart" wounds and get the heck out of Vietnam.

Then he went back to the US and made up stuff about the people he served with committing attrocities...using his Winter Soldier testimony as his ticket into politics. I have the ultimate respect for those that served their "country" in Vietnam but John Kerry was never about that.

He went to Vietnam to serve "himself". He went to Vietnam toting a movie camera to capture his military career on film. Who does that? The fact that John Kerry is our Secretary of State disgusts me, quite frankly.

Stupidest rant ever made against Kerry. Yeah, he volunteered to be shot at so he could make a movie

You should be ashamed for questioning the integrity and honesty of the men who served in the boats with Kerry. You slander men who fought, got wounded and a few who died

You are nothing but an old style armchair warrior bullshit artist

Bronze Star

hurlow testified, "I never heard a shot."[5] Of the three boat commanders present besides Kerry and Thurlow, two are SBVT members who now claim that there was no hostile fire during the incident. But one of them was seriously wounded with a concussion and the other left the scene early on to accompany the wounded to safety.

Only Kerry and Thurlow remained behind to work on damage control.[34] The other boat commander present, Don Droz, was later killed in action; however, his widow recalls Droz's account as being consistent with Kerry's.[35]

Several other witnesses insist that there was hostile fire during the incident. Jim Rassmann, the Special Forces captain Kerry rescued, wrote, "Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river. … When I surfaced, all the Swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water." Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, PCF-94, stated, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water." Wayne Langhofer, who manned the machine gun on Don Droz's PCF-43, stated, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river."[5] Michael Medeiros, aboard PCF-94, recalled "a massive ambush. There were rockets and light machine gun fire plus small arms." Jim Russell, the Psychological Operations Officer of the unit, who was on PCF-43, wrote "All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach… Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river."[36]

Although it is not mentioned in Unfit for Command, Thurlow himself was awarded a Bronze Star for his actions during the same incident. Thurlow's citation includes several phrases indicating hostile fire such as "despite enemy bullets flying about him" and "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire", and speaks of fire directed at "all units" of the five-boat fleet.[37] ]

smell a rat with Swiftboaters?

Silver Star

Kerry's medal citation indicates that he charged into an ambush, killing an enemy preparing to launch a rocket. In his 1969 performance evaluation, Elliot wrote "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG [Lieutenant Junior Grade] Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity.

On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA [Killed in Action]. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach."[43]


However, although Elliott claims that he was not in possession of the facts of the event, the original citation that Elliott wrote (which is not the citation that appears in "Unfit for Command") incorporates most of the details in the after action report. The report states that Kerry chased and shot a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong. In addition, it states that the PCFs were filled with troops, that all three boats turned into the first ambush and beached, that the troops conducted the first sweep, and that while Kerry led the first landing party during the second sweep, the other landing parties and troops followed and took out the VC.

Kerry’s crew members who were there that day do not agree with Elliott’s characterization of the event in his 2004 affidavits.

They contend that the enemy soldier, although wounded, was still a threat.

For example, one of them, Fred Short, said, "The guy was getting ready to stand up with a rocket on his shoulder, coming up. And Mr. Kerry took him out … he would have been about a 30-yard shot. … [T]here's no way he could miss us."[49] Del Sandusky, Kerry’s second in command, described the consequences to the lightly armored Swift Boat: "Charlie would have lit us up like a Roman candle because we're full of fuel, we're full of ammunition."[50] Another witness stated that the VC "had an entry wound at the side of his chest and exit wound at the opposite side of the chest cavity, a wound that was consistent with reports of the man turning to fire a second B-40 rocket."[51]

The only member of SBVT who was present that day, Larry Clayton Lee, has stated he believes Kerry earned the Silver Star.[7]

Another eyewitness, William Rood, a former Chicago Tribune editor, in a 2004 article gave an account that supports Kerry's version of the events of that day. Rood was commander of PCF-23, which was one of the two Swift Boats that accompanied Kerry's PCF-94.

Rood discounted several specific charges made by SBVT about the incident.

The accounts of Vietnamese witnesses are consistent on several points with Rood's. Ba Thanh, the guerrilla killed while carrying the B-40 rocket launcher, was "big and strong" and in his late 20's. Return fire was also intense, according to Vo Van Tam, who was then a local Viet Cong commander: "I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats." No Vietnamese witnesses saw how Thanh died or saw him being chased by an American.[57]

No individual who was present that day has disputed Kerry's version of events, nor suggested that he did not earn the Silver Star, and some said accounts given in Unfit for Command were incorrect.[57]

However, in its October 2004 documentation of its investigation of Kerry's medals, the office of the Navy inspector general described the first, longer version as the "COMUSNAVFOR Vietnam version, signed by VADM Zumwalt" and the second version as the "official version, signed by the delegated award authority, ADM Hyland, CINCPACFLT." As to the third version, the report described it as one of several "duplicate citations" that were issued in 1985 after "considerable correspondence indicating efforts over the years to chase down various citations," and stated that the ones under Lehman's name were likely signed by machine.[62] In addition, in October 2004, Rowan Scarborough of the Washington Times reported:

Navy officials say that there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry's Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts were ever rescinded and that there is no evidence of misconduct in his records.

He did receive new medal citations in the mid-1980s. Officials say the Navy receives scores, and perhaps hundreds, of such requests each year from veterans who want a second copy or have lost the originals.

The citations are simply put through a machine that implants the signature of the current Navy secretary. John Lehman's signature, via a machine, appears on Mr. Kerry's new citation for his Silver Star.[63]

Commenting on the Silver Star issue, Republican Sen. John Warner, who was Under Secretary of the Navy at the time, stated "We did extraordinary, careful checking on that type of medal, a very high one, when it goes through the secretary...I'd stand by the process that awarded that medal, and I think we best acknowledge that his heroism did gain that recognition."[64] Elmo Zumwalt, Commander of the United States Naval Forces in Vietnam at that time, signed Kerry's original Silver Star citation and defended the award in 1996, saying "It is a disgrace to the United States Navy that there's any inference that the [medal] process was anything other than totally honest." Boston Herald, October 28, 1996.

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oldstyle]

Well said from the MA personal point of view.

My vote always went to the national interest. Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony put me off him for sure, and your assessment from a local point of view seems valid.

Still, by 2004 it was clear that filthy little cokehead inheritor from Tejas was over his head. Kerry had been a surface based decorated Naval officer. His Winter Soldier testimony brought on the Swift Boat folks, which is how the cookie crumbles. Some people never really get out of the zone; Swift Boaters are entitled to their juvenile take. However, it wasn't much of a decision for me to pick the proven performer over the proven failure.

In sum, the country that re elected a degenerate scum like Junebug deserves the fucking Bush League policies produced. And Obama. It is meet and right that the United States suffer the consequences of ill considered actions, whatever those consequences are.

I'll leave it at that and wish you the best.

With all due respect, Jukes? The fact that John Kerry got "decorated" and then transferred Stateside for the injuries that he incurred was a joke. How you can refer to him as a "proven performer" mystifies me. He used the system back then to claim 3 very minor injuries in a six month period as "Purple Heart" wounds and get the heck out of Vietnam. Then he went back to the US and made up stuff about the people he served with committing attrocities...using his Winter Soldier testimony as his ticket into politics. I have the ultimate respect for those that served their "country" in Vietnam but John Kerry was never about that. He went to Vietnam to serve "himself". He went to Vietnam toting a movie camera to capture his military career on film. Who does that? The fact that John Kerry is our Secretary of State disgusts me, quite frankly.

Tried to show respect for your choice in 2004. You couldn't leave it at that.

As scummy as they are, the leaders of the Swift Boat crowd earned the right to criticize Kerry's conduct in Vietnam. Nothing indicates you earned the right to criticize any service man's legal conduct there.

Winter Soldier testimony and all, John Kerry is morally head and shoulders above the filthy god damned little chickenhawk slimeball fortunate son, Junebug Bush; and NOTHING we know about Kerry's life indicates he ever lived a nanosecond that wasn't morally superior to the war mongering Oedipal wreck who invaded Iraq to show his mommy he could penetrate deeper than daddy.

You voted for the boy. I would rather be dead than do something that despicable. Another point: the word "injury" is not on the Vietnam purple heart award. My command of the English language is not sufficient to describe the magnitude of my contempt for soldiers and civilians who use the word 'injury' to describe combat wounds.

We're done here.

I hate to point out harsh reality to you, Sparky...but as an American I have the "right" to criticize anything I'd like to. It's in the Constitution...you know that thing you swore to protect as a member of the Armed Forces?

As for your "contempt" over combat wounds? How do you feel about a soldier who put in for a Purple Heart for a "wound" that required a bandaid? How would you feel about one that used three such minor "combat wounds" in less than six months to secure a trip back home leaving others behind to do the fighting? How would you feel about that same person then turning around and accusing those he left behind of committing attrocities in public "show hearings" to further a political career?

We're done here? Really? Says who?

 

[Dante]

Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives​

This is why the GOP lost in 2008 and 2012: They are living in a past that never existed, just like Reagan did. Reagan raised taxes, grew government, backed socialist programs, and more. When a political party lives on myth, sooner or later it all just collapses into a warm pile of shit

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives
George Will

As the end of President Reagan’s final term approaches, conservatives and hardliners have radically changed their view of him. They originally saw him as one of their own—a crusader for good against evil, obstinately opposed to communism in general and to any sort of arms reduction agreement with the Soviet Union in specific. But recent events—Reagan’s recent moderation in rhetoric towards the Soviets (see December 1983 and After), the summits with Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev (see November 16-19, 1985 and October 11-12, 1986), and the recent arms treaties with the Soviets (see Early 1985 and December 7-8, 1987) have soured them on Reagan.

Hardliners had once held considerable power in the Reagan administration (see January 1981 and After and Early 1981 and After), but their influence has steadily waned, and their attempts to sabotage and undermine arms control negotiations (see April 1981 and After, September 1981 through November 1983, May 1982 and After, and April 1983-December 1983), initially quite successful, have grown less effective and more desperate (see Before November 16, 1985). Attempts by administration hardliners to get “soft” officials such as Secretary of State George Shultz fired do not succeed. Conservative pundits such as George Will and William Safire lambast Reagan, with Will accusing him of “moral disarmament” and Safire mocking Reagan’s rapport with Gorbachev: “He professed to see in Mr. Gorbachev’s eyes an end to the Soviet goal of world domination.” It will not be until after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the tearing down of the Berlin Wall (see November 9, 1989 and After) that conservatives will revise their opinion of Reagan, in the process revising much of history in the process. [Scoblic, 2008, pp. 143-145]

Entity Tags: George Will, George Shultz, William Safire, Mikhail Gorbachev, Ronald Reagan

So it was Reagan's becoming more liberal towards the Soviets, that brought about Reagan's deals with the Soviets, that led to a warming of the cold war and the end of the Soviets' hostility distrust of the west and the USA

How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan

How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan - Salon.com

Monday, Feb 2, 2009 03:28 AM PST
How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan
With the Gipper's reputation flagging after Clinton, neoconservatives launched a stealthy campaign to remake him as a "great" president.
By Will Bunch

In a sense, some of the credit for triggering this may belong to those supposedly liberal editors at the New York Times, and their decision at the end of 1996 to publish that Arthur Schlesinger Jr. survey of the presidents. The below-average rating by the historians for Reagan, coming right on the heels of Clintons’ easy reelection victory, was a wake-up call for these people who came to Washington in the 1980s as the shock troops of a revolution and now saw everything slipping away. The first Reagan salvos came from the Heritage Foundation, the same conservative think tank that also had feted the 10th anniversary of the Reagan tax cut in 1991. After its initial article slamming the Times, the foundation’s magazine, Policy Review, came back in July 1997 with a second piece for its 20th anniversary issue: “Reagan Betrayed: Are Conservatives Fumbling His Legacy?”

The coming contours of the Reagan myth were neatly laid out in a series of short essays from the leaders of the conservative movement: that the Gipper deserved all or at least most of the credit for winning the Cold War, that the economic boom that Americans were enjoying in 1997 was the result of the Reagan tax cut (and not the march toward balanced budgets, lower interest rates and targeted investment), and that the biggest problem with the GOP was, as the title suggested, not Reagan’s legacy but a new generation of weak-kneed leaders who were getting it all wrong. The tone was established by none other than Reagan’s own son, Michael, now himself a talk-radio host, who wrote: “Although my father is the one afflicted with Alzheimer’s disease, I sometimes think the Republicans are suffering a much greater memory loss. They have forgotten Ronald Reagan’s accomplishments — and that is why we have lost so many of them.”

How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan

The Ronald Reagan Legacy Project was hatched in the spring of 1997 — and perhaps like any successful guerrilla operation, there was an element of surprise. There was no formal announcement, nothing to tip off any alarmists on the left. Rather than incorporate the Reagan project as a separate entity, which carried the potential of greater scrutiny of its operations and its finances, it was simply a unit of the group that Norquist had been overseeing for more than a decade, the Americans for Tax Reform. The Reagan Legacy Project would not even get its first mention in print until October 23, 1997 — by then its first bold proposal had two key backers in Georgia Rep. Bob Barr and that state’s Republican Sen. Paul Coverdell. They had endorsed legislation that would rename the Capitol region’s busy domestic airport, Washington National, as Reagan National. The renaming would not only mean that millions of air travelers would pass through the facility named for the 40th president, but a disproportionate number would be from the nation’s liberal elites, especially in Big Media, who used the airport’s popular shuttle service. Simply put, Reagan National Airport would be a weekly thumb in the eye of the Yankee elites who were still belittling the aging Gipper’s presidency.

How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan

Conservative Opposition

Hardline conservatives protest Gorbachev’s visit to Washington, and the signing of the treaty, in the strongest possible terms. When Reagan suggests that Gorbachev address a joint session of Congress, Congressional Republicans, led by House member Dick Cheney (R-WY—see 1983), rebel. Cheney says: “Addressing a joint meeting of Congress is a high honor, one of the highest honors we can accord anyone. Given the fact of continuing Soviet aggression in Afghanistan, Soviet repression in Eastern Europe, and Soviet actions in Africa and Central America, it is totally inappropriate to confer this honor upon Gorbachev. He is an adversary, not an ally.”

Conservative Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Committee is more blunt in his assessment of the treaty agreement: “Reagan is a weakened president, weakened in spirit as well as in clout, and not in a position to make judgments about Gorbachev at this time.”

Conservative pundit William F. Buckley calls the treaty a “suicide pact.”

Fellow conservative pundit George Will calls Reagan “wildly wrong” in his dealings with the Soviets.

Conservatives gather to bemoan what they call “summit fever,” accusing Reagan of “appeasement” both of communists and of Congressional liberals, and protesting Reagan’s “cutting deals with the evil empire” (see March 8, 1983).

They mount a letter-writing campaign, generating some 300,000 letters, and launch a newspaper ad campaign that compares Reagan to former British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.

Senators Jesse Helms (R-NC) and Steven Symms (R-ID) try to undercut the treaty by attempting to add amendments that would make the treaty untenable; Helms will lead a filibuster against the treaty as well.
[Scoblic, 2008, pp. 142-145]

The right wing eats their own. They resurrect Uncle Joe McCarthy and Ronald Reagan as heroic figures of the right

 

[Oldstyle]

Oh please!

Hiding behind "the children" now? What's next the flag? Where were you when Columbine went down; when Sandy Hook went down?

You're acting pathetic. Grow up.

Not quite sure what those incidents have to do with spending the country into oblivion and piling impossible debt for future generations

Stupidest rant ever made against Kerry. Yeah, he volunteered to be shot at so he could make a movie

You should be ashamed for questioning the integrity and honesty of the men who served in the boats with Kerry. You slander men who fought, got wounded and a few who died

You are nothing but an old style armchair warrior bullshit artist

Bronze Star

hurlow testified, "I never heard a shot."[5] Of the three boat commanders present besides Kerry and Thurlow, two are SBVT members who now claim that there was no hostile fire during the incident. But one of them was seriously wounded with a concussion and the other left the scene early on to accompany the wounded to safety.

Only Kerry and Thurlow remained behind to work on damage control.[34] The other boat commander present, Don Droz, was later killed in action; however, his widow recalls Droz's account as being consistent with Kerry's.[35]

Several other witnesses insist that there was hostile fire during the incident. Jim Rassmann, the Special Forces captain Kerry rescued, wrote, "Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river. … When I surfaced, all the Swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water." Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, PCF-94, stated, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water." Wayne Langhofer, who manned the machine gun on Don Droz's PCF-43, stated, "There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river."[5] Michael Medeiros, aboard PCF-94, recalled "a massive ambush. There were rockets and light machine gun fire plus small arms." Jim Russell, the Psychological Operations Officer of the unit, who was on PCF-43, wrote "All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach… Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river."[36]

Although it is not mentioned in Unfit for Command, Thurlow himself was awarded a Bronze Star for his actions during the same incident. Thurlow's citation includes several phrases indicating hostile fire such as "despite enemy bullets flying about him" and "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire", and speaks of fire directed at "all units" of the five-boat fleet.[37] ]

smell a rat with Swiftboaters?

Silver Star

Kerry's medal citation indicates that he charged into an ambush, killing an enemy preparing to launch a rocket. In his 1969 performance evaluation, Elliot wrote "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG [Lieutenant Junior Grade] Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity.

On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA [Killed in Action]. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach."[43]


However, although Elliott claims that he was not in possession of the facts of the event, the original citation that Elliott wrote (which is not the citation that appears in "Unfit for Command") incorporates most of the details in the after action report. The report states that Kerry chased and shot a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong. In addition, it states that the PCFs were filled with troops, that all three boats turned into the first ambush and beached, that the troops conducted the first sweep, and that while Kerry led the first landing party during the second sweep, the other landing parties and troops followed and took out the VC.

Kerry’s crew members who were there that day do not agree with Elliott’s characterization of the event in his 2004 affidavits.

They contend that the enemy soldier, although wounded, was still a threat.

For example, one of them, Fred Short, said, "The guy was getting ready to stand up with a rocket on his shoulder, coming up. And Mr. Kerry took him out … he would have been about a 30-yard shot. … [T]here's no way he could miss us."[49] Del Sandusky, Kerry’s second in command, described the consequences to the lightly armored Swift Boat: "Charlie would have lit us up like a Roman candle because we're full of fuel, we're full of ammunition."[50] Another witness stated that the VC "had an entry wound at the side of his chest and exit wound at the opposite side of the chest cavity, a wound that was consistent with reports of the man turning to fire a second B-40 rocket."[51]

The only member of SBVT who was present that day, Larry Clayton Lee, has stated he believes Kerry earned the Silver Star.[7]

Another eyewitness, William Rood, a former Chicago Tribune editor, in a 2004 article gave an account that supports Kerry's version of the events of that day. Rood was commander of PCF-23, which was one of the two Swift Boats that accompanied Kerry's PCF-94.

Rood discounted several specific charges made by SBVT about the incident.

The accounts of Vietnamese witnesses are consistent on several points with Rood's. Ba Thanh, the guerrilla killed while carrying the B-40 rocket launcher, was "big and strong" and in his late 20's. Return fire was also intense, according to Vo Van Tam, who was then a local Viet Cong commander: "I led Ba Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to fire on the American boats." No Vietnamese witnesses saw how Thanh died or saw him being chased by an American.[57]

No individual who was present that day has disputed Kerry's version of events, nor suggested that he did not earn the Silver Star, and some said accounts given in Unfit for Command were incorrect.[57]

However, in its October 2004 documentation of its investigation of Kerry's medals, the office of the Navy inspector general described the first, longer version as the "COMUSNAVFOR Vietnam version, signed by VADM Zumwalt" and the second version as the "official version, signed by the delegated award authority, ADM Hyland, CINCPACFLT." As to the third version, the report described it as one of several "duplicate citations" that were issued in 1985 after "considerable correspondence indicating efforts over the years to chase down various citations," and stated that the ones under Lehman's name were likely signed by machine.[62] In addition, in October 2004, Rowan Scarborough of the Washington Times reported:

Navy officials say that there is no evidence that Mr. Kerry's Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts were ever rescinded and that there is no evidence of misconduct in his records.

He did receive new medal citations in the mid-1980s. Officials say the Navy receives scores, and perhaps hundreds, of such requests each year from veterans who want a second copy or have lost the originals.

The citations are simply put through a machine that implants the signature of the current Navy secretary. John Lehman's signature, via a machine, appears on Mr. Kerry's new citation for his Silver Star.[63]

Commenting on the Silver Star issue, Republican Sen. John Warner, who was Under Secretary of the Navy at the time, stated "We did extraordinary, careful checking on that type of medal, a very high one, when it goes through the secretary...I'd stand by the process that awarded that medal, and I think we best acknowledge that his heroism did gain that recognition."[64] Elmo Zumwalt, Commander of the United States Naval Forces in Vietnam at that time, signed Kerry's original Silver Star citation and defended the award in 1996, saying "It is a disgrace to the United States Navy that there's any inference that the [medal] process was anything other than totally honest." Boston Herald, October 28, 1996.

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dude, John Kerry's whole life has been a pursuit of elected office. He didn't join the Swift Boats because he was looking for "action"...he joined them because he wanted to be John F. Kennedy. The truth is that at the time Kerry signed up for Patrol Boats they were based on an island off of the Vietnam coast and it was a cake assignment with little danger. Imagine poor John's consternation when it was subsequently decided that the Swift Boats needed to patrol the rivers in South Vietnam. OMG! A guy could get killed doing that kind of duty and our hero didn't volunteer to get killed. He volunteered because at that time if you wanted to go into politics you needed military service on your resume. So what do you do if you want out? You work the system. You put in for three Purple Hearts in less than six months for laughably minor wounds and then you opt out of Vietnam and head back to a cushy position as an aide back in Washington DC.

But I should be "ashamed" for pointing out that John Kerry isn't much of a "hero"? The people who should be "ashamed" are the ones that let him get away with the bullshit he's been pedaling about himself and what happened in Vietnam for all these years.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Reagan: freed tens of millions

Obama: put tens of millions in poverty, unemployment and food stamps

 

[Dante]

Every right wing whack-a-doodle-doo Kerry myth rolled up in one?

Dude, John Kerry's whole life has been a pursuit of elected office.

He didn't join the Swift Boats because he was looking for "action"...he joined them because he wanted to be John F. Kennedy. The truth is that at the time Kerry signed up for Patrol Boats they were based on an island off of the Vietnam coast and it was a cake assignment with little danger. Imagine poor John's consternation when it was subsequently decided that the Swift Boats needed to patrol the rivers in South Vietnam. OMG! A guy could get killed doing that kind of duty and our hero didn't volunteer to get killed. He volunteered because at that time if you wanted to go into politics you needed military service on your resume.

What imbecility. John Kerry volunteered for combat duty in Vietnam. And he always had iolitical aspirations? OMFG! Call A Fox News Alert!!!

"There was nothing atypical about Bush joining the National Guard, which was considered a nice, safe haven from Vietnam," said Flynn, author of "The Draft, 1940-1973."

"It was Kerry who was the exception." For the Candidates, Vietnam Choices Linger

John Kerry's Vietnam Service Record:

February 18, 1966 – Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy.

August 22, 1966 – Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island.

December 16, 1966 – Kerry receives commission as an Ensign.

January 3, 1967 – Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course.

March 22, 1967 – Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer.

June 8, 1967 – Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities.

February 9, 1968 – USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand.

February 10, 1968 – Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron.

May 27, 1968 – USS Gridley sets sail for the US.

June 6, 1968 – Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles.

June 16, 1968 – Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade.

July 20, 1968 – Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.

November 17, 1968 – Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

December 1968 through January 1969 – Kerry commands PCF-44.

December 2, 1968 – Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.

December 6, 1968 – Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island.

December 13, 1968 – Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay.

December 24, 1968 – Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest.

January 22, 1969 – Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV).

Late January, 1969 – Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94.

John Kerry's Service Record

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives​

This is why the GOP lost in 2008 and 2012: They are living in a past that never existed, just like Reagan did. Reagan raised taxes, grew government, backed socialist programs, and more. When a political party lives on myth, sooner or later it all just collapses into a warm pile of shit

1988: Reagan Abandoned, Mocked by Hardline Conservatives
George Will

As the end of President Reagan’s final term approaches, conservatives and hardliners have radically changed their view of him. They originally saw him as one of their own—a crusader for good against evil, obstinately opposed to communism in general and to any sort of arms reduction agreement with the Soviet Union in specific. But recent events—Reagan’s recent moderation in rhetoric towards the Soviets (see December 1983 and After), the summits with Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev (see November 16-19, 1985 and October 11-12, 1986), and the recent arms treaties with the Soviets (see Early 1985 and December 7-8, 1987) have soured them on Reagan.

Hardliners had once held considerable power in the Reagan administration (see January 1981 and After and Early 1981 and After), but their influence has steadily waned, and their attempts to sabotage and undermine arms control negotiations (see April 1981 and After, September 1981 through November 1983, May 1982 and After, and April 1983-December 1983), initially quite successful, have grown less effective and more desperate (see Before November 16, 1985). Attempts by administration hardliners to get “soft” officials such as Secretary of State George Shultz fired do not succeed. Conservative pundits such as George Will and William Safire lambast Reagan, with Will accusing him of “moral disarmament” and Safire mocking Reagan’s rapport with Gorbachev: “He professed to see in Mr. Gorbachev’s eyes an end to the Soviet goal of world domination.” It will not be until after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the tearing down of the Berlin Wall (see November 9, 1989 and After) that conservatives will revise their opinion of Reagan, in the process revising much of history in the process. [Scoblic, 2008, pp. 143-145]

Entity Tags: George Will, George Shultz, William Safire, Mikhail Gorbachev, Ronald Reagan

So it was Reagan's becoming more liberal towards the Soviets, that brought about Reagan's deals with the Soviets, that led to a warming of the cold war and the end of the Soviets' hostility distrust of the west and the USA

You can't revise what I lived through and be factious with your comments.