Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Jroc]

When people like me are described as nutjobs, people like you should probably be nervous for the nation.

To recap the presidency of Ronald Reagan:

Promise: cut government
Reality: hired 230,000 ADDITIONAL civilian government workers

Promise: control govamet spending
Reality: tripled the national debt in PEACETIME, something nutballs can't get their minds around

Promise: deregulation
Reality: increased corporate welfare more than any president before Junebug Bush

Promise: less government interference
Reality: first two finance bailouts; Wall Street 1987, S&Ls 1988

Promise: lower taxes
Reality: the largest tax increases in history on the middle class (1982, 1988)

And on and on; more false promises than Clinton, another pathological fake. Among the highest compliments in America today is having a nutball call one a "nutjob"; the only higher compliment is having a fake liberal meritocrat call one a teabagger. In other words when the clueless won't associate with one, one's world is self cleansing.

That doesn't fix anything, but it does clear the path.

What were the tax rates before and after Reagan idiot? You’re a joke, total government spending went up because? Reagan couldn't get all his spending cuts as has already been pointed out earlier. The increase in defense spending was well worth it as the Soviet Union lost the cold war because of it

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Here is the reality, jroc: you people are still looking for a promised land that never existed. Good luck.

Meanwhile, folks like me who spotted Reagan as a confidence man, basically a hired hatchet, before he left California, and understood that Reagan was about Reagan - exactly as his children, the ones he didn't abandon, have made clear. You folks seem to be happy eating his shit.

Folks like me? Not so much.

The last highly competent American to be president was the last decent president: IKE. It tickles me to see all you acolytes wandering around your spiritual deserts lost looking for the promised land your icons led you down the garden path in search of. How you can post one of Reagan's SIGNED blank checks and blame congress is a mystery to rational people. In fairness Clinton signed bills Reagan could only dream about, so these two are basically political twins. And yet one imagines most nutballs and fake liberals are too entranced by the voices in their heads to admit the striking number of political similarities in their icons. What is hilarious is how well each understood - and exploited - the vulnerabilities of the weaker minds in their constituencies while moving toward identical objectives.

The bottom line, ace: your icon never had a clue; there was no promised land. Yer boy's blank checks put the United States on a path to economic disaster that his political descendents Clinton, Junebug did follow, and Obama appears all too willing to follow all the way to the bottom of the drain.

Further, did any of your folks notice that the USSR didn't really participate in Reagan's shadow boxing events? Mostly they just kept borrowing money to buy food and essential commodities from the west. Every aware high school sophomore in America in 1980 understood that the USSR had probably never been much of a threat to the United States.

 

[Meathead]

Here is the reality, jroc: you people are still looking for a promised land that never existed. Good luck.

Meanwhile, folks like me who spotted Reagan as a confidence man, basically a hired hatchet, before he left California, and understood that Reagan was about Reagan - exactly as his children, the ones he didn't abandon, have made clear. You folks seem to be happy eating his shit.

Folks like me? Not so much.

The last decent American to be president was the last decent president: IKE. It tickles me to see all you acolytes wandering around your spiritual deserts lost looking for the promised land your icons led you down the garden path in search of. How you can post one of Reagan's SIGNED blank checks and blame congress is a mystery to rational people. In fairness Clinton signed bills Reagan could only dream about, so these two are basically political twins. And yet one imagines most nutballs and fake liberals are too entranced by the voices in their heads to manage the facts about their icons.

The bottom line, ace: your icon never had a clue; there was no promised land. Yer boy's blank checks put the United States on a path to economic disaster that his political descendents Clinton, Junebug did follow, and Obama appears all too willing to follow all the way to the bottom of the drain.

Further, did any of your folks notice that the USSR didn't really participate in Reagan's shadow boxing events? Mostly they just kept borrowing money to buy food and essential commodities from the west. Every aware high school sophomore in America in 1980 understood that the USSR had probably never been much of a threat to the United States.

Wow, you've really got one hell of a lot to learn. Never too old, as they say. Some perhaps too stupid though. Good Luck!

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Here is the reality, jroc: you people are still looking for a promised land that never existed. Good luck.

Meanwhile, folks like me who spotted Reagan as a confidence man, basically a hired hatchet, before he left California, and understood that Reagan was about Reagan - exactly as his children, the ones he didn't abandon, have made clear. You folks seem to be happy eating his shit.

Folks like me? Not so much.

The last decent American to be president was the last decent president: IKE. It tickles me to see all you acolytes wandering around your spiritual deserts lost looking for the promised land your icons led you down the garden path in search of. How you can post one of Reagan's SIGNED blank checks and blame congress is a mystery to rational people. In fairness Clinton signed bills Reagan could only dream about, so these two are basically political twins. And yet one imagines most nutballs and fake liberals are too entranced by the voices in their heads to manage the facts about their icons.

The bottom line, ace: your icon never had a clue; there was no promised land. Yer boy's blank checks put the United States on a path to economic disaster that his political descendents Clinton, Junebug did follow, and Obama appears all too willing to follow all the way to the bottom of the drain.

Further, did any of your folks notice that the USSR didn't really participate in Reagan's shadow boxing events? Mostly they just kept borrowing money to buy food and essential commodities from the west. Every aware high school sophomore in America in 1980 understood that the USSR had probably never been much of a threat to the United States.

Wow, you've really got one hell of a lot to learn. Never too old, as they say. Some perhaps too stupid though. Good Luck!

Few have been luckier than me if one defines luck as the intersection of preparation with opportunity. However, there are hard measures most folks accept as evidence how effectively individuals apply knowledge and opinions. Don't shed any tears for me, son. It's all good.

 

[Toronado3800]

yep, isn't is sweet

Hello Stephanie.

Which accomplishment? The interest I am paying on his debt of economic revivial?

His Marine Barracks security system (not his fault but hey, neither was this last embassh attack the President's fault)

Did he outlaw abortion?

Cancel the B1 Bomber? Oh wait, ooops.

See that ship in my avitar? Was that a cost effective or forward moving revival or just some deficit spending to pump the economy?

Reagans policies helped create 7 trillion dollars in new wealth in this country...the president can't outlaw abortion what are you talking about?

Oh, I do not disagree about the economic revival. The New Deal worked. So did Reagan's deficit spending programs wether they were military or domestic. Sounds like you understand that.

Far as the abortion thing goes it also seems you are poking fun at the one issue anti abortion crowd for choosing to vote republican since a president can not outlaw abortion. I feel a president, especially a great communicator, has a certain power to push his agenda. Obama cared about healthcare, maybe Reagan sucked up the pro life vote while not caring about abortion. Or he was not the great communicator.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here is the reality, jroc: you people are still looking for a promised land that never existed. Good luck.

Meanwhile, folks like me who spotted Reagan as a confidence man, basically a hired hatchet, before he left California, and understood that Reagan was about Reagan - exactly as his children, the ones he didn't abandon, have made clear. You folks seem to be happy eating his shit.

Folks like me? Not so much.

The last highly competent American to be president was the last decent president: IKE. It tickles me to see all you acolytes wandering around your spiritual deserts lost looking for the promised land your icons led you down the garden path in search of. How you can post one of Reagan's SIGNED blank checks and blame congress is a mystery to rational people. In fairness Clinton signed bills Reagan could only dream about, so these two are basically political twins. And yet one imagines most nutballs and fake liberals are too entranced by the voices in their heads to admit the striking number of political similarities in their icons. What is hilarious is how well each understood - and exploited - the vulnerabilities of the weaker minds in their constituencies while moving toward identical objectives.

The bottom line, ace: your icon never had a clue; there was no promised land. Yer boy's blank checks put the United States on a path to economic disaster that his political descendents Clinton, Junebug did follow, and Obama appears all too willing to follow all the way to the bottom of the drain.

Further, did any of your folks notice that the USSR didn't really participate in Reagan's shadow boxing events? Mostly they just kept borrowing money to buy food and essential commodities from the west. Every aware high school sophomore in America in 1980 understood that the USSR had probably never been much of a threat to the United States.

You're g5000 other account

Do us a favor and

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAgRBq2jnz4]Original: Penn & Teller You Need To Shut The Fuck Up ! (HQ) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

How is that none of you nutballs mentioned Reagan's blanket offer of pardon to about eight million illegal aliens? That wasn't on any of your lists of Reynaldo's major accomplishments. Seems like a big oversight.

2.9 million signed the old new dealer's offer, but the other five or six million benefited from the issue being taken off the table.

How much do the more mathematically inclined among you nutballs believe that cost honest US citizens looking for work?

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find amusing is this sudden desire by progressives to undermine the reputation of Ronald Reagan. Gee, guys...have the last four years of progressive control of the country been so bad that you've given up trying to tout the progressive agenda's "merits" and decided that attacking a dead guy's legacy works better for you?

I know that your flawed version of Keynesian economic policy has gone over like a lead balloon...so I'm guessing that you'd rather critique what Reagan did some thirty years ago rather than defend what Barry has been doing since his butt hit the chair in the Oval Office? Can't say as I blame you. I mean how many years can you get away with blaming everybody else other than your guy? At some point it reaches the point of farce.

 

[Stephanie]

Progressives have to tear down everything this country stood for and anyone that was good for it in order to install their fascist visions on people, take Obama has a good example

and as we see they have a lot of useful tools to help

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Hopefully no one posting here is stupid enough to believe anything ever said or posted by me supports the man who hired Bush League revenant Geithner or Clintonistas like Summers. Clinton took the worst elements of ReagaNUT policy to the hoop; opening the borders to undermine American citizen labor, deregulating essential commodities to raise the price of fuel, and opening investment accounts to breaches of faith.

There is NOTHING partisan in my attacks on Reagan or Clinton. I do associate Junebug Bush with the scum of the earth in the nutball party, however. That is because anyone anti-American enough to vote for Junebug in 2004 is basically no damned good. By then it was apparent the boy was over his head. No decent human voted for Bush in 2004. That didn't happen.

As far as the current president? After Bush who is stupid enough to believe another neocon nutball could be elected? Thank Junebug for Obama, people.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What I find amusing is this sudden desire by progressives to undermine the reputation of Ronald Reagan. Gee, guys...have the last four years of progressive control of the country been so bad that you've given up trying to tout the progressive agenda's "merits" and decided that attacking a dead guy's legacy works better for you?

I know that your flawed version of Keynesian economic policy has gone over like a lead balloon...so I'm guessing that you'd rather critique what Reagan did some thirty years ago rather than defend what Barry has been doing since his butt hit the chair in the Oval Office? Can't say as I blame you. I mean how many years can you get away with blaming everybody else other than your guy? At some point it reaches the point of farce.

/thread!!

 

[Oldstyle]

Hopefully no one posting here is stupid enough to believe anything ever said or posted by me supports the man who hired Bush League revenant Geithner or Clintonistas like Summers. Clinton took the worst elements of ReagaNUT policy to the hoop; opening the borders to undermine American citizen labor, deregulating essential commodities to raise the price of fuel, and opening investment accounts to breaches of faith.

There is NOTHING partisan in my attacks on Reagan or Clinton. I do associate Junebug Bush with the scum of the earth in the nutball party, however. That is because anyone anti-American enough to vote for Junebug in 2004 is basically no damned good. By then it was apparent the boy was over his head. No decent human voted for Bush in 2004. That didn't happen.

As far as the current president? After Bush who is stupid enough to believe another neocon nutball could be elected? Thank Junebug for Obama, people.

My "choice" in 2004 was between George W. Bush and John Kerry. As much as I didn't like many of the things that Bush was doing, Kerry by comparison would have been a jump out of the frying pan into the fire. He's the prototypical "empty suit" albeit with a nice head of hair...a career politician who's all about John Kerry.

I'm from Massachusetts, have watched "JFK Lite" in action for thirty plus years and wouldn't put him in the Oval Office for love nor money. I voted for George W. Bush in 2004because he was a better option than the other guy...just as I voted for Bush over Al Gore four years earlier. With all due respect? That doesn't disqualify me from being a "decent human". It simply makes me a pragmatist.

 

[Toronado3800]

What I find amusing is this sudden desire by progressives to undermine the reputation of Ronald Reagan. Gee, guys...have the last four years of progressive control of the country been so bad that you've given up trying to tout the progressive agenda's "merits" and decided that attacking a dead guy's legacy works better for you?

I know that your flawed version of Keynesian economic policy has gone over like a lead balloon...so I'm guessing that you'd rather critique what Reagan did some thirty years ago rather than defend what Barry has been doing since his butt hit the chair in the Oval Office? Can't say as I blame you. I mean how many years can you get away with blaming everybody else other than your guy? At some point it reaches the point of farce.

I hope I am not included. The birthday posts and all have gotten me thinking Reagan again and I revised my opinion. I actually think better of him now.

My take may be a little different than the folks who want to pretend he was a tight small government man but that is just what I take of his budgets and deficits.

The bailouts I have always despised and am wondering why folks prop him as a small government hero up despite them and the deficits.

Just reality. Reagan might have been effective. I believe he was SOCIALLY conservative and hated the communists.

He just is a strange hero for the small government folks.

 

[Toronado3800]

Hopefully no one posting here is stupid enough to believe anything ever said or posted by me supports the man who hired Bush League revenant Geithner or Clintonistas like Summers. Clinton took the worst elements of ReagaNUT policy to the hoop; opening the borders to undermine American citizen labor, deregulating essential commodities to raise the price of fuel, and opening investment accounts to breaches of faith.

There is NOTHING partisan in my attacks on Reagan or Clinton. I do associate Junebug Bush with the scum of the earth in the nutball party, however. That is because anyone anti-American enough to vote for Junebug in 2004 is basically no damned good. By then it was apparent the boy was over his head. No decent human voted for Bush in 2004. That didn't happen.

As far as the current president? After Bush who is stupid enough to believe another neocon nutball could be elected? Thank Junebug for Obama, people.

You are interesting and not the usual blind partisan follower! Thank you for posting and please do so more.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Hopefully no one posting here is stupid enough to believe anything ever said or posted by me supports the man who hired Bush League revenant Geithner or Clintonistas like Summers. Clinton took the worst elements of ReagaNUT policy to the hoop; opening the borders to undermine American citizen labor, deregulating essential commodities to raise the price of fuel, and opening investment accounts to breaches of faith.

There is NOTHING partisan in my attacks on Reagan or Clinton. I do associate Junebug Bush with the scum of the earth in the nutball party, however. That is because anyone anti-American enough to vote for Junebug in 2004 is basically no damned good. By then it was apparent the boy was over his head. No decent human voted for Bush in 2004. That didn't happen.

As far as the current president? After Bush who is stupid enough to believe another neocon nutball could be elected? Thank Junebug for Obama, people.

My "choice" in 2004 was between George W. Bush and John Kerry. As much as I didn't like many of the things that Bush was doing, Kerry by comparison would have been a jump out of the frying pan into the fire. He's the prototypical "empty suit" albeit with a nice head of hair...a career politician who's all about John Kerry.

I'm from Massachusetts, have watched "JFK Lite" in action for thirty plus years and wouldn't put him in the Oval Office for love nor money. I voted for George W. Bush in 2004because he was a better option than the other guy...just as I voted for Bush over Al Gore four years earlier. With all due respect? That doesn't disqualify me from being a "decent human". It simply makes me a pragmatist.

Well said from the MA personal point of view.

My vote always went to the national interest. Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony put me off him for sure, and your assessment from a local point of view seems valid.

Still, by 2004 it was clear that filthy little cokehead inheritor from Tejas was over his head. Kerry had been a surface based decorated Naval officer. His Winter Soldier testimony brought on the Swift Boat folks, which is how the cookie crumbles. Some people never really get out of the zone; Swift Boaters are entitled to their juvenile take. However, it wasn't much of a decision for me to pick the proven performer over the proven failure.

In sum, the country that re elected a degenerate scum like Junebug deserves the fucking Bush League policies produced. And Obama. It is meet and right that the United States suffer the consequences of ill considered actions, whatever those consequences are.

I'll leave it at that and wish you the best.

 

[Dante]

Let the GOP tell the public what they want to cut.

They w-a-n-t cuts. What do they want to cut?

They want to cut entitlements, Dante. If we don't the whole house of cards falls down. The CBO has made it quite clear that we can't tax our way out of this...yet that's all that this Administration is willing to do.

The cuts have to be made...but Barry doesn't have the political backbone to do it. Instead he keeps kicking the can down the road while he continues to try and add MORE entitlements to what we already can't afford. Now it's universal pre-school on the taxpayer's dime.

That is why Democrats are waiting fro the GOP leadership, not the fringe Tea Party, the GOP leadership, to spell out what cuts they desire.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Appreciate the good will.

Today's America is a nation of inward looking (self referential) couch potatoes, most of whom never took a risk outside their heads, and the ones who do take risks take stupid risks like using cellphones in cars and buying watered stocks.

It isn't my country any more. It is a nation of wannabes. No point pretending to be happy about that.

 

[Dante]

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says

Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says
Brian Faler, ©2013 Bloomberg News
Published 9:37 pm, Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Read more: Deficit Will Slip to Five-Year Low Under $1 Trillion, CBO says - SFGate

-------------------

We know the right wing keeps saying The Sky is Falling and and The End is Near, but reality strikes.

 

[Dante]

Trajan won't answer questions, Dante. He ran himself off a thread last night because he wouldn't or couldn't. He just can't stand being laughed at.

Now to the point. RR raised taxes three times, had an unemployment rate almost 1% higher than Obama, raised the deficit 16 times, cozied up to the Soviets, lied about Iran-Contra, and was responsible for hundreds of officers and thousands of NCOs leaving the service because of I-C.

You're an idiot Reagan closed loopholes and lower overall tax rates that's called tax reform unemployment went from almost 11% to just over 5% under Reagan, Reagan’s policy of "peace through Strength" bankrupted the Soviets while the piece of shit liberals tried to make backroom deals with them. People leaving the military because of Reagan? You're full of it Reagan, restored pride in this country, brought back our economy from the abyss, unleashed our energy production capability, he couldn’t get the spending cuts he wanted because of the liberals in congress

Let's look at the record:

Spending

In 1980, Jimmy Caner's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."

Even Ford and Carter did a better job at cutting government.

Ludwig von Mises Institute | the Free Market

Advancing Austrian Economics, Liberty, and Peace for 30 years

The Sad Legacy of Ronald Reagan

Conservative Opposition - Hardline conservatives protest Gorbachev’s visit to Washington, and the signing of the treaty, in the strongest possible terms. When Reagan suggests that Gorbachev address a joint session of Congress, Congressional Republicans, led by House member Dick Cheney (R-WY—see 1983), rebel. Cheney says: “Addressing a joint meeting of Congress is a high honor, one of the highest honors we can accord anyone. Given the fact of continuing Soviet aggression in Afghanistan, Soviet repression in Eastern Europe, and Soviet actions in Africa and Central America, it is totally inappropriate to confer this honor upon Gorbachev. He is an adversary, not an ally.”

Conservative Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Committee is more blunt in his assessment of the treaty agreement: “Reagan is a weakened president, weakened in spirit as well as in clout, and not in a position to make judgments about Gorbachev at this time.”

Conservative pundit William F. Buckley calls the treaty a “suicide pact.” Fellow conservative pundit George Will calls Reagan “wildly wrong” in his dealings with the Soviets.

Conservatives gather to bemoan what they call “summit fever,” accusing Reagan of “appeasement” both of communists and of Congressional liberals, and protesting Reagan’s “cutting deals with the evil empire” (see March 8, 1983).

They mount a letter-writing campaign, generating some 300,000 letters, and launch a newspaper ad campaign that compares Reagan to former British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.

Senators Jesse Helms (R-NC) and Steven Symms (R-ID) try to undercut the treaty by attempting to add amendments that would make the treaty untenable; Helms will lead a filibuster against the treaty as well.
...
[Scoblic, 2008, pp. 142-145]

George Will

How Republicans created the myth of Ronald Reagan - Salon.com

Conservative Opposition - Hardline conservatives protest Gorbachev’s visit to Washington, and the signing of the treaty, in the strongest possible terms. When Reagan suggests that Gorbachev address a joint session of Congress, Congressional Republicans, led by House member Dick Cheney (R-WY—see 1983), rebel. Cheney says: “Addressing a joint meeting of Congress is a high honor, one of the highest honors we can accord anyone. Given the fact of continuing Soviet aggression in Afghanistan, Soviet repression in Eastern Europe, and Soviet actions in Africa and Central America, it is totally inappropriate to confer this honor upon Gorbachev. He is an adversary, not an ally.”

Conservative Paul Weyrich of the Free Congress Committee is more blunt in his assessment of the treaty agreement: “Reagan is a weakened president, weakened in spirit as well as in clout, and not in a position to make judgments about Gorbachev at this time.”

Conservative pundit William F. Buckley calls the treaty a “suicide pact.”

Fellow conservative pundit George Will calls Reagan “wildly wrong” in his dealings with the Soviets.

Conservatives gather to bemoan what they call “summit fever,” accusing Reagan of “appeasement” both of communists and of Congressional liberals, and protesting Reagan’s “cutting deals with the evil empire” (see March 8, 1983). They mount a letter-writing campaign, generating some 300,000 letters, and launch a newspaper ad campaign that compares Reagan to former British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain.

Senators Jesse Helms (R-NC) and Steven Symms (R-ID) try to undercut the treaty by attempting to add amendments that would make the treaty untenable; Helms will lead a filibuster against the treaty as well.

[Scoblic, 2008, pp. 142-145]

 

[Dante]

Obama will never be a Reagan..

Reagan cared about people and the country and that was a man who could speak, wrote his own speeches..

Obama reads scripted sermons written for him and hates everything about us or he wouldn't see a need, to transform us with his ugly "visions"

No he has no psychic advisers and he has all his marbles in his second term. Among other things he will not be drooling all over himself while not being able to remember who his cabinet secretaries are.

"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not." - Ronald Reagan