Rachel Corrie death trial, day 1

[P F Tinmore]

Pancake was anti-american!

And your point is? The last time I looked every American citizen has THE RIGHT to her/his opinion, whatever that may be.

That pancake was no angel!

I find your attempt at humor to be very distasteful.

However, the dufus who killed Rachel Corrie created a nightmare for Israel. Now her words are heard around the world.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X4-VtkriKY&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Alice Walker reads Rachel Corrie[/ame]

 

[Ragnar]

That pancake was no angel!

"Pancake"... does that mean we can refer to Israeli suicide bomb victims as "confetti"?

Good one Kablam. "Landmines" for bulldozer drivers and nicknames for people who are put in harms way by means not of their own choosing. Interesting choice of moral equivalence.

There should have been poll with this topic. Dumb girl fell down or the Great Israeli Bulldozer Conspiracy? Really, who else here is getting damn tired of the Jewish bulldozer violence diaspora?

 

[Winston Smith]

As Sorry as I am for Corrie's death, i cannot, help but wonder: She knew she was going into a warzone and putting her own life at risk. I'm sorry for what happened, but Corrie's death was her own doing and her parents have no one to blame for it than Rachel herself, though i don't blame them for what they're doing, i cannot even begin to grasp how one handles the death of one's own child.

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

the difference is pearl was kidnapped where as corrie was accidentily killed.

But yes, much like corrie pearl knew very well what he was getting himself into...

 

[Winston Smith]

That pancake was no angel!

"Pancake"... does that mean we can refer to Israeli suicide bomb victims as "confetti"? :eusa_think

don't really agree with about anything you say, but that made me laugh...

 

[xotoxi]

That pancake was no angel!

"Pancake"... does that mean we can refer to Israeli suicide bomb victims as "confetti"?

"Kosher pink clouds"

 

[xotoxi]

As Sorry as I am for Corrie's death, i cannot, help but wonder: She knew she was going into a warzone and putting her own life at risk. I'm sorry for what happened, but Corrie's death was her own doing and her parents have no one to blame for it than Rachel herself, though i don't blame them for what they're doing, i cannot even begin to grasp how one handles the death of one's own child.

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

the difference is pearl was kidnapped where as corrie was accidentily killed.

But yes, much like corrie pearl knew very well what he was getting himself into...

That was my entire point.

 

[Annie]

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

the difference is pearl was kidnapped where as corrie was accidentily killed.

But yes, much like corrie pearl knew very well what he was getting himself into...

That was my entire point.

Understood. Mine was, Pearl went to try and give voice to all, hoping to bring understanding to all. Corrie went to sow chaos. Pearl's family has tried to give voice to his legacy, so has Corrie's.

 

[xotoxi]

the difference is pearl was kidnapped where as corrie was accidentily killed.

But yes, much like corrie pearl knew very well what he was getting himself into...

That was my entire point.

Understood. Mine was, Pearl went to try and give voice to all, hoping to bring understanding to all. Corrie went to sow chaos. Pearl's family has tried to give voice to his legacy, so has Corrie's.

I agree...except with the part that she went to "sow chaos".

Unless you can find a link where she explicitly states that her motives were to help them destroy Israel and that she supported the terrorists, rather than help defend the innocent Palistinian men, women, and children.

 

[jillian]

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

I understand why you make that analogy. But it is a false one. Yes, both Daniel Pearl and she knew where they were going and the dangers. BUT... and here is the thing that people like to forget. Daniel Pearl was INTENTIONALLY kidnapped and killed. No one INTENDED Corrie's death. There is a huge difference in terms of culpability. The Israeli's were not bulldozing PEOPLE.

That said, I have read the various justifications posited for the bulldozing, including one saying there was a tunnel under the house and another saying they were clearing thousands of houses for border issues. Neither is correct to my recollection. In fact, as I recall, the Israeli's were bulldozing the homes of suicide bombers. The thinking was that if the terrorists knew that their families were going to be homeless after, they wouldn't go around blowing themselves up to kill israeli children.

Now, as much as this may have seemed like a good idea on paper, it was a terrible idea. First, outsiders rebuilt these homes and gave money to the families of the suicide bombers to rebuild. That kind of obviated whatever hesitation some suicidal fanatic might feel about leaving his family homeless. The families were also getting, I believe, about $5,000 in cash for their loved ones' endeavor. So any deterrant effect would have been lost anyway. Secondly, the incident was and continues to be damaging to Israel from a PR perspective in a way no other one was able to be. You know, "cute, earnest American girl dies falling under the big bad Israeli bulldozer" So of all the things Israel has done to try to defend itself, I always thought the bulldozers were the worst for a million reasons. But most because terrorist supporting scum should never have had the opportunity to use this terrible thing. Let me say this one more time... NO ONE INTENDED FOR HER TO DIE (unlike acts of terrorism which DO intend someone die... or kidnappings of journalists like Pearl).

Now, as to this kid ... she was a terrorist supporter. What made her a terrorist supporter? She was protecting the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. She had no business being there defending those actions. To be clear, she wasn't in Israel yelling about babies in carriages being blown to pieces. She was protecting the people who did the blowing up. Was this right after a particularly onerous piece of trash blew up a passover sedar at a hotel in israel? I don't remember. The bombs and missiles tend to run into each other in terms of the timeline.

She was no Daniel Pearl. Comparing the two is offensive, XO, no matter how much I know you don't intend for it to be.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

I understand why you make that analogy. But it is a false one. Yes, both Daniel Pearl and she knew where they were going and the dangers. BUT... and here is the thing that people like to forget. Daniel Pearl was INTENTIONALLY kidnapped and killed. No one INTENDED Corrie's death. There is a huge difference in terms of culpability. The Israeli's were not bulldozing PEOPLE.

That said, I have read the various justifications posited for the bulldozing, including one saying there was a tunnel under the house and another saying they were clearing thousands of houses for border issues. Neither is correct to my recollection. In fact, as I recall, the Israeli's were bulldozing the homes of suicide bombers. The thinking was that if the terrorists knew that their families were going to be homeless after, they wouldn't go around blowing themselves up to kill israeli children.

Now, as much as this may have seemed like a good idea on paper, it was a terrible idea. First, outsiders rebuilt these homes and gave money to the families of the suicide bombers to rebuild. That kind of obviated whatever hesitation some suicidal fanatic might feel about leaving his family homeless. The families were also getting, I believe, about $5,000 in cash for their loved ones' endeavor. So any deterrant effect would have been lost anyway. Secondly, the incident was and continues to be damaging to Israel from a PR perspective in a way no other one was able to be. You know, "cute, earnest American girl dies falling under the big bad Israeli bulldozer" So of all the things Israel has done to try to defend itself, I always thought the bulldozers were the worst for a million reasons. But most because terrorist supporting scum should never have had the opportunity to use this terrible thing. Let me say this one more time... NO ONE INTENDED FOR HER TO DIE (unlike acts of terrorism which DO intend someone die... or kidnappings of journalists like Pearl).

Now, as to this kid ... she was a terrorist supporter. What made her a terrorist supporter? She was protecting the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. She had no business being there defending those actions. To be clear, she wasn't in Israel yelling about babies in carriages being blown to pieces. She was protecting the people who did the blowing up. Was this right after a particularly onerous piece of trash blew up a passover sedar at a hotel in israel? I don't remember. The bombs and missiles tend to run into each other in terms of the timeline.

She was no Daniel Pearl. Comparing the two is offensive, XO, no matter how much I know you don't intend for it to be.

so what would you say if the homes that were bulldozed were not homes of families of suicide bombers?

 

[xotoxi]

Replace Rachel Corrie's name with Daniel Pearl.

I understand why you make that analogy. But it is a false one. Yes, both Daniel Pearl and she knew where they were going and the dangers. BUT... and here is the thing that people like to forget. Daniel Pearl was INTENTIONALLY kidnapped and killed. No one INTENDED Corrie's death. There is a huge difference in terms of culpability. The Israeli's were not bulldozing PEOPLE.

That said, I have read the various justifications posited for the bulldozing, including one saying there was a tunnel under the house and another saying they were clearing thousands of houses for border issues. Neither is correct to my recollection. In fact, as I recall, the Israeli's were bulldozing the homes of suicide bombers. The thinking was that if the terrorists knew that their families were going to be homeless after, they wouldn't go around blowing themselves up to kill israeli children.

Now, as much as this may have seemed like a good idea on paper, it was a terrible idea. First, outsiders rebuilt these homes and gave money to the families of the suicide bombers to rebuild. That kind of obviated whatever hesitation some suicidal fanatic might feel about leaving his family homeless. The families were also getting, I believe, about $5,000 in cash for their loved ones' endeavor. So any deterrant effect would have been lost anyway. Secondly, the incident was and continues to be damaging to Israel from a PR perspective in a way no other one was able to be. You know, "cute, earnest American girl dies falling under the big bad Israeli bulldozer" So of all the things Israel has done to try to defend itself, I always thought the bulldozers were the worst for a million reasons. But most because terrorist supporting scum should never have had the opportunity to use this terrible thing. Let me say this one more time... NO ONE INTENDED FOR HER TO DIE (unlike acts of terrorism which DO intend someone die... or kidnappings of journalists like Pearl).

Now, as to this kid ... she was a terrorist supporter. What made her a terrorist supporter? She was protecting the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. She had no business being there defending those actions. To be clear, she wasn't in Israel yelling about babies in carriages being blown to pieces. She was protecting the people who did the blowing up. Was this right after a particularly onerous piece of trash blew up a passover sedar at a hotel in israel? I don't remember. The bombs and missiles tend to run into each other in terms of the timeline.

She was no Daniel Pearl. Comparing the two is offensive, XO, no matter how much I know you don't intend for it to be.

Very good point...my only point was made about people who decide to put their heads in the mouths of crocodiles and are surprised when they are bitten.

 

[Annie]

That was my entire point.

Understood. Mine was, Pearl went to try and give voice to all, hoping to bring understanding to all. Corrie went to sow chaos. Pearl's family has tried to give voice to his legacy, so has Corrie's.

I agree...except with the part that she went to "sow chaos".

Unless you can find a link where she explicitly states that her motives were to help them destroy Israel and that she supported the terrorists, rather than help defend the innocent Palistinian men, women, and children.

Where did I say the bolded? Why would I have to defend it? Jillian has pretty much summed up my stance with Corrie. It was an accident, a preventable one by her and the group she was with.

I'm sorry about her death, she was young and doing what she thought right and 'just.' I disagreed with her actions then, still do. I still feel sorry for the loss her family suffers.

Pearl went to have all sides heard, not just the US. He was murdered by those he was willing to give a pulpit to. I thought his goals nobel then, still do, yet too idealistic.

 

[xotoxi]

I agree...except with the part that she went to "sow chaos".

Unless you can find a link where she explicitly states that her motives were to help them destroy Israel and that she supported the terrorists, rather than help defend the innocent Palistinian men, women, and children.

Where did I say the bolded? Why would I have to defend it? Jillian has pretty much summed up my stance with Corrie. It was an accident, a preventable one by her and the group she was with.

Okay...I jumped to a conclusion about what you meant by "sow chaos"?

I'm not sure what "sowing chaos" means.

Can you define it?

 

[Neser Boha]

Pancake was anti-american!

And that is a good reason to kill her, right?

Nice putting words in someones mouth! She wasn't murdered, she was killed by at worst negligence. Was her death tragic? Yes. Was she a stupid confused self-righteous trash? DMN RIGHT!

G, why do you have to shit in your own mouth right after actually saying something that makes sense?

Yes, it may have just been human error and negligence - or the driver simply didn't see her - and yes, it was tragic. But she was not trash! How the hell can you call her trash? Is it because she HAD THE AUDACITY to CRITICIZE Israel the Immaculate, the Infallible?

You are so obvious it makes me feel embarrassed - for your sake.

 

[Annie]

I agree...except with the part that she went to "sow chaos".

Unless you can find a link where she explicitly states that her motives were to help them destroy Israel and that she supported the terrorists, rather than help defend the innocent Palistinian men, women, and children.

Where did I say the bolded? Why would I have to defend it? Jillian has pretty much summed up my stance with Corrie. It was an accident, a preventable one by her and the group she was with.

Okay...I jumped to a conclusion about what you meant by "sow chaos"?

I'm not sure what "sowing chaos" means. Can you define it?

Helping those like suicide bombers or helping Israelis move onto the West Bank are in my mind, sowing chaos. Yours?

 

[al Haq]

That said, I have read the various justifications posited for the bulldozing, including one saying there was a tunnel under the house and another saying they were clearing thousands of houses for border issues. Neither is correct to my recollection. In fact, as I recall, the Israeli's were bulldozing the homes of suicide bombers. The thinking was that if the terrorists knew that their families were going to be homeless after, they wouldn't go around blowing themselves up to kill israeli children.

Now, as much as this may have seemed like a good idea on paper, it was a terrible idea. First, outsiders rebuilt these homes and gave money to the families of the suicide bombers to rebuild. That kind of obviated whatever hesitation some suicidal fanatic might feel about leaving his family homeless. The families were also getting, I believe, about $5,000 in cash for their loved ones' endeavor. So any deterrant effect would have been lost anyway. Secondly, the incident was and continues to be damaging to Israel from a PR perspective in a way no other one was able to be. You know, "cute, earnest American girl dies falling under the big bad Israeli bulldozer" So of all the things Israel has done to try to defend itself, I always thought the bulldozers were the worst for a million reasons. But most because terrorist supporting scum should never have had the opportunity to use this terrible thing. Let me say this one more time... NO ONE INTENDED FOR HER TO DIE (unlike acts of terrorism which DO intend someone die... or kidnappings of journalists like Pearl).

Now, as to this kid ... she was a terrorist supporter. What made her a terrorist supporter? She was protecting the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. She had no business being there defending those actions. To be clear, she wasn't in Israel yelling about babies in carriages being blown to pieces. She was protecting the people who did the blowing up. Was this right after a particularly onerous piece of trash blew up a passover sedar at a hotel in israel? I don't remember. The bombs and missiles tend to run into each other in terms of the timeline.

BS.

There is absolutely no evidence that Samir Nasrallah, nor any member of his family, was a suicide bomber, nor has he ever been accused of such a crime by the IDF or the Israeli government.

Corrie's death occurred during what the IDF has referred to as "routine" clearing of terrain and debris as part of a large-scale demolition of an entire neighborhood along the Egyptian border, in order to create a "buffer zone" between Rafah and Egypt.

Linkie:

American peace activist killed by army bulldozer in Rafah - Haaretz - Israel News

 

[al Haq]

so what would you say if the homes that were bulldozed were not homes of families of suicide bombers?

 

[P F Tinmore]

so what would you say if the homes that were bulldozed were not homes of families of suicide bombers?

Good point. We will await jillian's response.

What Israel says is almost true. It does bulldoze the homes of suicide bombers. (At least it did before Palestine stopped them as a policy years ago.) But anyone with enough brain to connect some dots will question this. There have been thousands of homes bulldozed but there have only been a handful of suicide bombers. This huge difference is homes demolished by Israel just because it wants to.

 

[Winston Smith]

so what would you say if the homes that were bulldozed were not homes of families of suicide bombers?

Good point. We will await jillian's response.

What Israel says is almost true. It does bulldoze the homes of suicide bombers. (At least it did before Palestine stopped them as a policy years ago.) But anyone with enough brain to connect some dots will question this. There have been thousands of homes bulldozed but there have only been a handful of suicide bombers. This huge difference is homes demolished by Israel just because it wants to.

It is not only homes of suicide bombers that get demolished, but also houses of other terrorists. in 2004 alone there were over 600 terrosit attacks on israel using explosive devices. the perpetrators of those actions also get the same treatment.

 

[jillian]

It is not only homes of suicide bombers that get demolished, but also houses of other terrorists. in 2004 alone there were over 600 terrosit attacks on israel using explosive devices. the perpetrators of those actions also get the same treatment.

Regardless of the details of the specific home, I think we can agree that the Israelis were trying to protect their people like ANY government would.

So, ultimately, it doesn't change the fact that, either way, this girl was supporting terrorism. That she died was a tragedy, but to me, I wouldn't go to Afghanistan to protect Taliban members.

I think the larger probem was that even if justified, it was heavy handed and Israel hurt its international image.

But countries do that sometimes. I seem to recall the U.S. doing some pretty untoward things over time. It didn't negate the good that the country does, but it does change the way people view you.