Race Poverty, where are we now

[AVG-JOE]

Actually race is a good predictor for achievement and self support. What ever made you think it wasn't? Is there any reasonably large data set anywhere, for anything besides sports and entertainment, that doesn't show blacks perform worse on average?

Race is an EXCELLENT predictor of opportunity and achievement but only because graphing it along with a racial profile of economic power owned by the average Joe is a mirror image.

Economic Power is the deciding factor, with education being its leverage, in predicting opportunity and achievement - the matching race graph is merely a coincidence, given our history.

No, other way around.

The No. 1 predictor of someone's wealth is intelligence. Race and intelligence are tightly correlated.

Consider this: IQ predicts for wealth, regardless of race. Thus, smart blacks are richer than dumber whites.

Smart whites are richer than dumb blacks.

And in general, because whites are smarter than blacks, they're also generally richer.

If that were true, there would be no black doctors or professors. If that were true, the darker the skin, the more likely a man would be incapable of learning. If that were true there wouldn't be the steady stream of stupid, uneducated, poor white folk sitting at my desk on a daily basis crying about their circumstances.

The evidence my own eyes have witnessed during my fifty years on this planet does NOT support your theory.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The only thing that white America has imposed on blacks is that we have in effect kept them on a government plantation by creating social welfare programs that have ruined their culture by keeping them dependent, and in effect, saying that they can't make it on their own. We have also done this in a large portion of the white population. The solution is not to keep pouring money into programs that keep them dependent. Whatever you pay for, you get more of.

I could not agree with you more. And what an excellent way of stating it. Welfare and other entitlement programs destroy initiative. What starts out as a well intended helping hand develops into a way of life. It's like putting the Indian on a Reservation. You took a proud, productive, self sustaining culture and turned them into a race of dependent individuals with substance abuse problems.

I would much rather see money spent on education that cash entitlements which end up doing not much more than sustaining the status quo fo' the po'.

 

[IanC]

Race is an EXCELLENT predictor of opportunity and achievement but only because graphing it along with a racial profile of economic power owned by the average Joe is a mirror image.

Economic Power is the deciding factor, with education being its leverage, in predicting opportunity and achievement - the matching race graph is merely a coincidence, given our history.

No, other way around.

The No. 1 predictor of someone's wealth is intelligence. Race and intelligence are tightly correlated.

Consider this: IQ predicts for wealth, regardless of race. Thus, smart blacks are richer than dumber whites.

Smart whites are richer than dumb blacks.

And in general, because whites are smarter than blacks, they're also generally richer.

If that were true, there would be no black doctors or professors. If that were true, the darker the skin, the more likely a man would be incapable of learning. If that were true there wouldn't be the steady stream of stupid, uneducated, poor white folk sitting at my desk on a daily basis crying about their circumstances.

The evidence my own eyes have witnessed during my fifty years on this planet does NOT support your theory.

Actually intelligence theory doesn't say that there are no smart blacks, but it does accurately predict life outcomes for people of differing cognitive levels, especially lower levels. Smart people have a choice whether to be successful or not, dull people have much fewer choices because of their cognitive limitations. Any reasonably large study will show that smart people outperform dull people, regardless of race. Of course observation and testing show that blacks have a lower average intelligence than other races. This is not caused by racists, it is the result of evolution under different conditions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

No, other way around.

The No. 1 predictor of someone's wealth is intelligence. Race and intelligence are tightly correlated.

Consider this: IQ predicts for wealth, regardless of race. Thus, smart blacks are richer than dumber whites.

Smart whites are richer than dumb blacks.

And in general, because whites are smarter than blacks, they're also generally richer.

If that were true, there would be no black doctors or professors. If that were true, the darker the skin, the more likely a man would be incapable of learning. If that were true there wouldn't be the steady stream of stupid, uneducated, poor white folk sitting at my desk on a daily basis crying about their circumstances.

The evidence my own eyes have witnessed during my fifty years on this planet does NOT support your theory.

Actually intelligence theory doesn't say that there are no smart blacks, but it does accurately predict life outcomes for people of differing cognitive levels, especially lower levels. Smart people have a choice whether to be successful or not, dull people have much fewer choices because of their cognitive limitations. Any reasonably large study will show that smart people outperform dull people, regardless of race. Of course observation and testing show that blacks have a lower average intelligence than other races. This is not caused by racists, it is the result of evolution under different conditions.

Provide a reputable link or I'm calling 'bullshit!'

 

[Oddball]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299]Amazon.com: Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A…[/ame]

 

[IanC]

If that were true, there would be no black doctors or professors. If that were true, the darker the skin, the more likely a man would be incapable of learning. If that were true there wouldn't be the steady stream of stupid, uneducated, poor white folk sitting at my desk on a daily basis crying about their circumstances.

The evidence my own eyes have witnessed during my fifty years on this planet does NOT support your theory.

Actually intelligence theory doesn't say that there are no smart blacks, but it does accurately predict life outcomes for people of differing cognitive levels, especially lower levels. Smart people have a choice whether to be successful or not, dull people have much fewer choices because of their cognitive limitations. Any reasonably large study will show that smart people outperform dull people, regardless of race. Of course observation and testing show that blacks have a lower average intelligence than other races. This is not caused by racists, it is the result of evolution under different conditions.

Provide a reputable link or I'm calling 'bullshit!'

Hundreds of thousands of students take the SATs every year. Blacks show a normal curve centred on a lower average than other races. The same case holds true for the ACT, MCATs, LCATs, any version of IQ tests, civil service exams, physical measurement of brain operating speed, brain size, etc. There is no doubt about the racial gap, only the reasons for it. The genetics plus nurture theory is a good fit with reality, the nurture only explanation is woefully at odds with what is found by observation.

 

[IanC]

Amazon.com: Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life (A…

While the Bell Curve is an interesting read, the books by Arthur Jensen are definitive explanations of intelligence and its measurement, without the political and social commentary. I recommend Bias in Mental Testing or The 'g' Factor.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Actually intelligence theory doesn't say that there are no smart blacks, but it does accurately predict life outcomes for people of differing cognitive levels, especially lower levels. Smart people have a choice whether to be successful or not, dull people have much fewer choices because of their cognitive limitations. Any reasonably large study will show that smart people outperform dull people, regardless of race. Of course observation and testing show that blacks have a lower average intelligence than other races. This is not caused by racists, it is the result of evolution under different conditions.

Provide a reputable link or I'm calling 'bullshit!'

Hundreds of thousands of students take the SATs every year. Blacks show a normal curve centred on a lower average than other races. The same case holds true for the ACT, MCATs, LCATs, any version of IQ tests, civil service exams, physical measurement of brain operating speed, brain size, etc. There is no doubt about the racial gap, only the reasons for it. The genetics plus nurture theory is a good fit with reality, the nurture only explanation is woefully at odds with what is found by observation.

I still say that the obvious observations that are being made are explained by economic prowess and race is merely a coincidence that makes perfect sense given our history. I'll be sticking to my guns unless I see a link to published data that shows whites systematically score better on IQ tests when queried and balanced across all economic lines of both races.

I talk to too many engaging and intelligent members of both races on any given day as well as examples of both races that are quite dull. The difference I continue to see is the economic and education opportunities ignored or taken advantage of by both groups.

 

[lizzie]

I talk to too many engaging and intelligent members of both races on any given day as well as examples of both races that are quite dull. The difference I continue to see is the economic and education opportunities ignored or taken advantage of by both groups.

I have similar experience, and I believe much of it to be cultural. I have alot of friends who are from Africa, various countries- Kenya, Sierra Leone, Botswana, Nigeria, and The Congo. From getting to know them well, it seems that education is much more valued in their home countries, as a general rule, than it is here. They are not only educated and intelligent, but culturally refined and very congenial as well.

 

[IanC]

Provide a reputable link or I'm calling 'bullshit!'

Hundreds of thousands of students take the SATs every year. Blacks show a normal curve centred on a lower average than other races. The same case holds true for the ACT, MCATs, LCATs, any version of IQ tests, civil service exams, physical measurement of brain operating speed, brain size, etc. There is no doubt about the racial gap, only the reasons for it. The genetics plus nurture theory is a good fit with reality, the nurture only explanation is woefully at odds with what is found by observation.

I still say that the obvious observations that are being made are explained by economic prowess and race is merely a coincidence that makes perfect sense given our history. I'll be sticking to my guns unless I see a link to published data that shows whites systematically score better on IQ tests when queried and balanced across all economic lines of both races.

I talk to too many engaging and intelligent members of both races on any given day as well as examples of both races that are quite dull. The difference I continue to see is the economic and education opportunities ignored or taken advantage of by both groups.

I understand your hesentancy to acknowledge racial differences in intelligence. I grew up during the civil rights era and expected a blossoming of the black race once opportunities were advanced. And it did, but not fully and progress has stalled in reducing the racial gap even as we continue to try and find new ways to fix it.

Your contention is that blacks would score as well as whites if economics were equalized. My contention is that there is a biological difference that will overwhelm all efforts to totally equalize racial outcomes. My evidence to you is that SAT scores for blacks coming from families earning 100,000 dollars a year or more, average lower scores than whites with annual incomes of less than 20,000 dollars. Also, in the California school system with millions of students, poor white students outperform affluent black students.

Again, I understand your preference to stand in solidarity with the idea of black equality in all areas but reality paints a different picture.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hundreds of thousands of students take the SATs every year. Blacks show a normal curve centred on a lower average than other races. The same case holds true for the ACT, MCATs, LCATs, any version of IQ tests, civil service exams, physical measurement of brain operating speed, brain size, etc. There is no doubt about the racial gap, only the reasons for it. The genetics plus nurture theory is a good fit with reality, the nurture only explanation is woefully at odds with what is found by observation.

I still say that the obvious observations that are being made are explained by economic prowess and race is merely a coincidence that makes perfect sense given our history. I'll be sticking to my guns unless I see a link to published data that shows whites systematically score better on IQ tests when queried and balanced across all economic lines of both races.

I talk to too many engaging and intelligent members of both races on any given day as well as examples of both races that are quite dull. The difference I continue to see is the economic and education opportunities ignored or taken advantage of by both groups.

I understand your hesentancy to acknowledge racial differences in intelligence. I grew up during the civil rights era and expected a blossoming of the black race once opportunities were advanced. And it did, but not fully and progress has stalled in reducing the racial gap even as we continue to try and find new ways to fix it.

Your contention is that blacks would score as well as whites if economics were equalized. My contention is that there is a biological difference that will overwhelm all efforts to totally equalize racial outcomes. My evidence to you is that SAT scores for blacks coming from families earning 100,000 dollars a year or more, average lower scores than whites with annual incomes of less than 20,000 dollars. Also, in the California school system with millions of students, poor white students outperform affluent black students.

Again, I understand your preference to stand in solidarity with the idea of black equality in all areas but reality paints a different picture.

It's not a 'hesitancy to acknowledge racial differences in intelligence'. It is a simple observation that some of the most intelligent, successful and engaging people I've met are dark brown, black, light brown, golden yellow-brown, pale white, white and able to tan, blond, brunet, raven-haired, red-headed, and every shade in between - as are some of the most dull and single-minded people I meet and deal with on a daily basis.

My eyes and engagement with the human race continues to prove to me each and every day that the amount if melanin in a humans skin has nothing to do with their ability to carry on an intelligent conversation or accomplish educational or entrepreneurial goals.

The keys appear to me to be economic and educational opportunity. Hope also seems to play a role, but that is a direct reflection of our species history of 'Survival of the Fittest' - which fits the observations like a glove, especially when you understand that once a human feels secure in his own survival, he tends to work hard on the survival of his spawn.

Blood-families striving toward, working for, fighting and conniving to hold, killing and taking to consolidate and building technology and economic prowess to pass along to their descendants at the expense of other blood-families IS an accurate window on our history... Today's racial differences in economic power is merely a reflection of that history and evolution, not a measure of raw intelligence.

 

[editec]

Yeah well...

While I have little doubt that much of what this guy writes about is the truth, what can be done about it?

I have to tell yas that any solution that is RACE BASED is bound to fail.

What people seem to forget is that there are more White Americans living in poverty than Black Americans.

There were (2007) 25 MILLION Whites living in poverty.

There were (2007) 9 Million Blacks living in poverty.

Heres a clue for yas...poverty is an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY event in the USA.

The exact same conditions that cause Black folks to get trapped in poverty cause Whites to get trapped in that state.

Short of a complete RETHINK of the social contract, I see no solution on the horizon.

If your parents were poor?

Odds are highly in your favor that you will be too.

If they were rich? Odds are highly in your favor that you will be too.

Seriously...who doesn't know this?

Apparently only (political)faith-based idiots of the extreme left or extreme right seem to have trouble processing this unhappy fact.

When are we finally going to accept the undisputable fact that CLASS matters and has ALWAYS mattered in this nation?

Never would be guess.

When you've got BIG LIES as effective as the ones we've been telling outselves, they're mighty hard to give up. They're so comforting to thiose of us who are not suffering. They make us feel good about ourselves.

Because in order to give them up, we'd have to admit that we've got to change and few of us really want things to change.

 

[IanC]

Yeah well...

While I have little doubt that much of what this guy writes about is the truth, what can be done about it?

I have to tell yas that any solution that is RACE BASED is bound to fail.

What people seem to forget is that there are more White Americans living in poverty than Black Americans.

There were (2007) 25 MILLION Whites living in poverty.

There were (2007) 9 Million Blacks living in poverty.

Heres a clue for yas...poverty is an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY event in the USA.

The exact same conditions that cause Black folks to get trapped in poverty cause Whites to get trapped in that state.

Short of a complete RETHINK of the social contract, I see no solution on the horizon.

If your parents were poor?

Odds are highly in your favor that you will be too.

If they were rich? Odds are highly in your favor that you will be too.

Seriously...who doesn't know this?

Apparently only (political)faith-based idiots of the extreme left or extreme right seem to have trouble processing this unhappy fact.

When are we finally going to accept the undisputable fact that CLASS matters and has ALWAYS mattered in this nation?

Never would be guess.

When you've got BIG LIES as effective as the ones we've been telling outselves, they're mighty hard to give up. They're so comforting to thiose of us who are not suffering. They make us feel good about ourselves.

Because in order to give them up, we'd have to admit that we've got to change and few of us really want things to change.

Class is intrinsically linked to intelligence. Intelligence is highly heritable so children are similar to there parents and likely to have similar achievements on average. But what happens when siblings have different levels of intelligence? The smarter one becomes more educated, works at a more prestigious job, makes more money, and has less social pathologies. The siblings end up resembling others of similar intelligence level than each other.

Adoption studies show that adult intelligence is correlated to biological parents not adoptive ones.

These two points show why the racial gap in outcomes is going to be here for a very long time, maybe forever.

Regression to the mean also comes into play. Smart parents often have children that are closer to the racial average than they are. Blacks and whites have different racial averages. If middle class achievement requires at least average (white) intelligence, what predictions can we make? That black middle class families will produce children of lower intelligence than the white average and closer to the black average, which will lead to more of these children being unable to continue middle class outcomes. And this is indeed the case.

Just for the record, blacks have members at all levels of intelligence including very bright, but there is a difference of where the common levels clump up on the scale.

 

[Liberty]

the democrats and their constant welfare and reparations bullshit is what keeps minorities down. If instead, the government supported oh i dont know....jobs maybe? Then these racial minorities might stop shooting/raping eachother and get a damn job. The democrats keep minorities down. MLK knew this, and most people with half a brain knows this.

 

[IanC]

the democrats and their constant welfare and reparations bullshit is what keeps minorities down. If instead, the government supported oh i dont know....jobs maybe? Then these racial minorities might stop shooting/raping eachother and get a damn job. The democrats keep minorities down. MLK knew this, and most people with half a brain knows this.

Stopping low IQ immigration that competes for unskilled labour jobs would be another way of helping the lower classes.

 

[Liberty]

the democrats and their constant welfare and reparations bullshit is what keeps minorities down. If instead, the government supported oh i dont know....jobs maybe? Then these racial minorities might stop shooting/raping eachother and get a damn job. The democrats keep minorities down. MLK knew this, and most people with half a brain knows this.

Stopping low IQ immigration that competes for unskilled labour jobs would be another way of helping the lower classes.

agreed

 

[CountofTuscany]

I wonder, if we just stopped dwelling on racial issues, would they go away? Seems we always need to bring race to the forefront. At a time when we are probably further ahead on racial issues then ever before. We elected a black man president. 60% of Americans said race is not an issue. Of the 40% who didn't vote for him the majority of those did so for political reasons, not racial issues.

But it seems now the race card is played more than ever. And it's being played by the minority races.