Zone1 Questions for Christians who still put their trust in politicians and the political system

[buttercup]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

I’ll start with those questions.

PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

 

[JGalt]

The only Christians I know of trust neither politicians nor the political system. That's why they're so actively involved in trying to change them.

flashpoint

Brannon Howse

 

[buttercup]

The only Christians I know of trust neither politicians nor the political system. That's why they're so actively involved in trying to change them.

flashpoint

Brannon Howse

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've found that a lot of believers (mainly online) still enthusiastically participate and put their trust in certain political leaders...whether that's out of a "we have to keep out the other party" mindset, or because they genuinely believe in and admire said political leaders.

Those were the ones I was hoping would answer the questions... But so far, I can see that it has mostly been crickets chirping.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

L
I’ll start with those questions.
Werc
PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

I have a few questions for you buttercup . Why do you assume conservative Christians put their "trust" in a man and not God?

We have at least a few leftists on this board that call themselves Christian. Did you ever ask such questions of them during the Biden or Obama administrations? Why not?

Was Satan alive and roaming the earth during the days of a ancient Israel? Was he king over all the world?

Was Satan the ruler of the world during the days of Hezekiah? Josiah? These were among the good kings of Judah who tried to restore Israel/Judah

My "trust" is not in Donald Trump but in God.

I believe it is clear as day that GOD is giving America ONE LAST CHANCE before we enter the Great Tribulation.
This current INSURRECTION tells me we are FAILING. and too far gone. But it is clear God is giving us ONE LAST CHANCE

 

[Seymour Flops]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've found that a lot of believers (mainly online) still enthusiastically participate and put their trust in certain political leaders...whether that's out of a "we have to keep out the other party" mindset, or because they genuinely believe in and admire said political leaders.

Those were the ones I was hoping would answer the questions... But so far, I can see that it has mostly been crickets chirping.

I think you are confusing not wanting the government to run roughshod over them and picking politicians unlikely to let government do that, with putting trust and faith in government and politicians.

That's like saying I vote for a Sherif who will stop anti-Christian terrorists from disrupting church services is putting faith in anti-Christian terrorists.

 

[buttercup]

I have a few questions for you buttercup . Why do you assume conservative Christians put their "trust" in a man and not God?

We have at least a few leftists on this board that call themselves Christian. Did you ever ask such questions of them during the Biden or Obama administrations? Why not?

Was Satan alive and roaming the earth during the days of a ancient Israel? Was he king over all the world?

Was Satan the ruler of the world during the days of Hezekiah? Josiah? These were among the good kings of Judah who tried to restore Israel/Judah

My "trust" is not in Donald Trump but in God.

I believe it is clear as day that GOD is giving America ONE LAST CHANCE before we enter the Great Tribulation.
This current INSURRECTION tells me we are FAILING. and too far gone. But it is clear God is giving us ONE LAST CHANCE

Most lefties that I've seen on this site aren't Christian. There might be a few, (like Care4All) but for the most part, the lefties here tend to be either non-religious or non-Christian. So why would I ask atheists, agnostics or non-christians this question?

ETA: But I do want to hear from them too, I never excluded them to begin with. Care4all is the only one who comes to my mind, but if there's anyone else you can think of, please tag them.

Ok, so you didn't really answer the questions directly... You did answer, but not the specific questions asked. But as for what you did say, alright, thanks for sharing your thoughts. That seems to be a fairly common view among the ardent Trump loyalists.

What I've seen is that most of the hardcore TLs seem to believe that the deception is very clear and open (of course coming from the left.) But that's not how the enemy operates, as I stated in the OP.

If everyone wore a white hat or a black hat, and everything was very clear and simple, then no one would ever be deceived. But again, typically that's not how things work, and I believe that as Christians we need to listen to the repeated warnings about deception (especially in the last days) and have some understanding of how the enemy operates.

 

[buttercup]

I think you are confusing not wanting the government to run roughshod over them and picking politicians unlikely to let government do that, with putting trust and faith in government and politicians.

That's like saying I vote for a Sherif who will stop anti-Christian terrorists from disrupting church services is putting faith in anti-Christian terrorists.

Well, I did acknowledge that many people vote for a candidate not out of admiration or full trust, but because they oppose and distrust the other side completely, and just want to keep the other side out. I get that. I don't agree with the LO2E mindset, but I understand that reasoning. I think that's part of the deception.

 

[JGalt]

Most lefties that I've seen on this site aren't Christian. There might be a few, (like Care4All) but for the most part, the lefties here tend to be either non-religious or non-Christian. So why would I ask atheists, agnostics or non-christians this question?

Ok, so you didn't really answer the questions directly... You did answer, but not the specific questions asked. But as for what you did say, alright, thanks for sharing your thoughts. That seems to be a fairly common view among the ardent Trump loyalists.

What I've seen is that most of the hardcore TLs seem to believe that the deception is very clear and open (of course coming from the left.) But that's not how the enemy operates, as I stated in the OP.

If everyone wore a white hat or a black hat, and everything was very clear and simple, then no one would ever be deceived. But again, typically that's not how the enemy operates, and I believe that as Christians we need to listen to the repeated warnings about deception (especially in the last days) and have some understanding of how the enemy operates.

I've seen two types of Christians: Those who isolate themselves from the world and those who are actively engaged in trying to make the world more of a Christian nation. Many of the isolationist types aren't concerned with what's happening in the world. Many of them don't even watch much television, and don't have internet or email. Some of them don't even vote.

More than ever, I'm seeing the Christian "activists". They're well-informed, politically-active, and see God's Word as the ultimate standard for understanding life, truth, and society, challenging relativistic views and focusing on living according to Scripture. They critically evaluate media, culture, and education through a biblical lens, and take a position against postmodernism, relativism, secular humanism, feminism, illegal immigration, socialism, and "interfaith dialog."

And they do vote and run for political offices. The church my wife attends is one of of more than 7,600 churches that sprang up since 2019, when entire congregations disaffiliated themselves with the United Methodist Church, got up, and walked out. They refused to tolerate the UMC's stance on gay weddings, transgenderism, gay pastors, and the UMC's disobeying the the Biblical rules set in their "Book of Discipline."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Most lefties that I've seen on this site aren't Christian. There might be a few, (like Care4All) but for the most part, the lefties here tend to be either non-religious or non-Christian. So why would I ask atheists, agnostics or non-christians this question?

ETA: But I do want to hear from them too, I never excluded them to begin with. Care4all is the only one who comes to my mind, but if there's anyone else you can think of, please tag them.

Ok, so you didn't really answer the questions directly... You did answer, but not the specific questions asked. But as for what you did say, alright, thanks for sharing your thoughts. That seems to be a fairly common view among the ardent Trump loyalists.

What I've seen is that most of the hardcore TLs seem to believe that the deception is very clear and open (of course coming from the left.) But that's not how the enemy operates, as I stated in the OP.

If everyone wore a white hat or a black hat, and everything was very clear and simple, then no one would ever be deceived. But again, typically that's not how things work, and I believe that as Christians we need to listen to the repeated warnings about deception (especially in the last days) and have some understanding of how the enemy operates.

I answered your question.
You don't accept it.

I'll try again.
Trump is GOD SENT.
You don't agree, but I believe it is a fact

I don't worship Trump, but I respect him as Gods instrument

Trump is not a perfect man, nor does he need to be.

God spoke through Balaam's ass. He can use Trump

We (the world) are approaching the Last Days. I know the end. We still have a CHANCE to repent. We won't, but we have to have HOPE.

I KNOW how bad the next few years will be. I hope I'm accounted worthy to be taken out of it through death (hopefully peacefully)

Nobody will want to live through what's coming. If you think you do, you really don't know what is coming

Trump is GOD'S attempt to give us a little more time to repent.

I know you don't accept that, but you asked "us" to explain why we "put out trust in Trump"

I told you I don't, and what I believe. Accept it or reject my answer. I really don't care

 

[JGalt]

I answered your question.
You don't accept it.

I'll try again.
Trump is GOD SENT.
You don't agree, but I believe it is a fact

I don't worship Trump, but I respect him as Gods instrument

Trump is not a perfect man, nor does he need to be.

God spoke through Balaam's ass. He can use Trump

We (the world) are approaching the Last Days. I know the end. We still have a CHANCE to repent. We won't, but we have to have HOPE.

I KNOW how bad the next few years will be. I hope I'm accounted worthy to be taken out of it through death (hopefully peacefully)

Nobody will want to live through what's coming. If you think you do, you really don't know what is coming

Trump is GOD'S attempt to give us a little more time to repent.

I know you don't accept that, but you asked "us" to explain why we "put out trust in Trump"

I told you I don't, and what I believe. Accept it or reject my answer. I really don't care

Amen to that. God has used far worse men than Donald Trump.

 

[buttercup]

I've seen two types of Christians: Those who isolate themselves from the world and those who are actively engaged. Many of the isolationist types aren't concerned with what's happening in the world. Many of them don't even watch much television, and don't have internet or email.

More than ever, I'm seeing the Christian "activists". They're well-informed, politically-active, and see God's Word as the ultimate standard for understanding life, truth, and society, challenging relativistic views and focusing on living according to Scripture. They critically evaluate media, culture, and education through a biblical lens, and take a position against postmodernism, relativism, secular humanism, feminism, illegal immigration, socialism, and "interfaith dialog."

And they do vote and run for political offices. The church my wife attends is one of of more than 7,600 churches that sprang up since 2019, when entire congregations disaffiliated themselves with the United Methodist Church, got up, and walked out. They refused to tolerate the UMC's stance on gay weddings, transgenderism, gay pastors, and the UMC's disobeying the the Biblical rules set in their "Book of Discipline."

Good point, I agree that there seems to be two different schools of thought in regard to Christians being politically active.

There's a lot that can be said about that, but for now I'll just say this... As I'm sure you would agree, there are different ways to fight the enemy, and try to change society....not all those ways are political. While I do definitely agree with speaking out on certain important issues....overall I think there are more effective and powerful ways to "fight" the enemy and try to win souls.

 

[buttercup]

I answered your question.
You don't accept it.

I'll try again.
Trump is GOD SENT.
You don't agree, but I believe it is a fact

I don't worship Trump, but I respect him as Gods instrument

Trump is not a perfect man, nor does he need to be.

God spoke through Balaam's ass. He can use Trump

We (the world) are approaching the Last Days. I know the end. We still have a CHANCE to repent. We won't, but we have to have HOPE.

I KNOW how bad the next few years will be. I hope I'm accounted worthy to be taken out of it through death (hopefully peacefully)

Nobody will want to live through what's coming. If you think you do, you really don't know what is coming

Trump is GOD'S attempt to give us a little more time to repent.

I know you don't accept that, but you asked "us" to explain why we "put out trust in Trump"

I told you I don't, and what I believe. Accept it or reject my answer. I really don't care

No, you didn't answer the questions I asked, you gave an overall reply, threw other questions at me, and shared your view about God giving America "one last chance."

But it's fine, I'm not going to force anyone to answer the specific questions I asked.

 

[JGalt]

Good point, I agree that there seems to be two different schools of thought in regard to Christians being politically active.

There's a lot that can be said about that, but for now I'll just say this... As I'm sure you would agree, there are different ways to fight the enemy, and try to change society.... not all those ways are political. While I do definitely agree with speaking out on certain important issues.... overall I think there are more effective and powerful ways to "fight" the enemy and try to win souls. Did that make sense?

True. Winning souls is evangelizing, which is supposed to be one of the priorities of every Christian. The media's not covering it, but there's a massive revival going on in this country right now, especially among young people.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Another thing
The Sabbath Keeping Church I attended and was most important to me taught voting was wrong and discouraged. They said Christ is our king and we are merely ambassadors to this world.

That was never my view. I see our Christian responsibility as DUAL.

I am a citizen of the kingdom but I also have citizenship and responsibility here on earth. Paul recognized his Roman citizenship.

My first vote was for Reagan. The alternative was unthinkable.

We faced the same choice with Donald Trump versus his competition. I've NEVER regretted my choice

 

[buttercup]

Another thing
The Sabbath Keeping Church I attended and was most important to me taught voting was wrong and discouraged. They said Christ is our king and we are merely ambassadors to this world.

That was never my view. I see our Christian responsibility as DUAL.

I am a citizen of the kingdom but I also have citizenship and responsibility here on earth. Paul recognized his Roman citizenship.

My first vote was for Reagan. The alternative was unthinkable.

We faced the same choice with Donald Trump versus his competition. I've NEVER regretted my choice

To be clear, I don't hold that position that voting is wrong. I just believe that in regard to presidential elections, our vote doesn't matter, since both sides are controlled by the same power structure. That's the deception. And of course I know you vehemently disagree with that, but that's not the topic of the thread, so...I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth on that.

 

[toobfreak]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

Evil is the enemy of God and evil operates primarily through deception. Most politicians are deceptive.

Thus only a fool puts much trust nor faith in most politicians or their political system.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

No, you didn't answer the questions I asked, you gave an overall reply, threw other questions at me, and shared your view about God giving America "one last chance."

But it's fine, I'm not going to force anyone to answer the specific questions I asked.

Again I answered your questions. You didn't answer mine. You missed the answer when you ignored my questions about satan

I have you my deeply personal views on this president and government and why I support this particular president.

I noticed the difference in tone between the way you responded to JGalts answers (he didn't answer your specific questions either) and your more harsh response to mine.

I KNOW you want to lead us to YOUR conclusion and I will play your deceptive game but it will take a little time. My tremor in my hand makes it hard to give long winded answers.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

I’ll start with those questions.

PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

The craziest thing is that as bad as trusting American politicians, so many Christians trust Bibi, who is proactively destroying every Christian Church

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The craziest thing is that as bad as trusting American politicians, so many Christians trust Bibi, who is proactively destroying every Christian Church

The craziest thing is people like buttercup who believe EVERYTHING occurs because EVERYTHING is manipulated by some "powers that shouldn't be" and there is NO DIFFERENCE in the people we choose

But I don't want to derail her thread and will say no more. You obviously also understand the point she is hoping to lead us to

 

[DennisPTate]

Would you agree that the enemy of God operates through deception?

If your answer is yes....in the context of politics, which of the following scenarios is more likely: that the enemy would honestly present their intentions in a clear, open and truthful way? Or that the enemy would deceive people by presenting something that looks fantastic, but is actually a trojan horse?

What are your thoughts on 2 Corinthians 11:14? Do you interpret it only in a literal way, or do you think it’s also a general statement on how the enemy (plural) tricks people by presenting things that look great on the surface, but aren’t, in reality?

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.​

I’ll start with those questions.

PS: My timing is probably bad, because I have a meeting with someone at 1 (in about 10 minutes) but when I’m done with that I’ll get back to this thread later. Thanks!

I am of the belief that Christians like me are terribly unaware of the other aspect of life in Sodom and Gomorrah that was revealed in The Book of Jasher that gives us a different angle on the types of sins that can get our city or our nation destroyed.

[The Book of Jasher]
25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.



26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any thing to keep him alive, and he was just upon the point of death.



27 And her soul was filled with pity on account of the man, and she fed him secretly with bread for many days, and the soul of this man was revived.



28 For when she went forth to fetch water she would put the bread in the water pitcher, and when she came to the place where the poor man was, she took the bread from the pitcher and gave it him to eat; so she did many days.



29 And all the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wondered how this man could bear starvation for so many days.



30 And they said to each other, This can only be that he eats and drinks, for no man can bear starvation for so many days or live as this man has, without even his countenance changing; and three men concealed themselves in a place where the poor man was stationed, to know who it was that brought him bread to eat.



31 And Paltith daughter of Lot went forth that day to fetch water, and she put bread into her pitcher of water, and she went to draw water by the poor man's place, and she took out the bread from the pitcher and gave it to the poor man and he ate it.



32 And the three men saw what Paltith did to the poor man, and they said to her, It is thou then who hast supported him, and therefore has he not starved, nor changed in appearance nor died like the rest.



33 And the three men went out of the place in which they were concealed, and they seized Paltith and the bread which was in the poor man's hand.



34 And they took Paltith and brought her before their judges, and they said to them, Thus did she do, and it is she who supplied the poor man with bread, therefore did he not die all this time; now therefore declare to us the punishment due to this woman for having transgressed our law.



35 And the people of Sodom and Gomorrah assembled and kindled a fire in the street of the city, and they took the woman and cast her into the fire and she was burned to ashes.



36 And in the city of Admah there was a woman to whom they did the like.



37 For a traveler came into the city of Admah to abide there all night, with the intention of going home in the morning, and he sat opposite the door of the house of the young woman's father, to remain there, as the sun had set when be had reached that place; and the young woman saw him sitting by the door of the house.



38 And he asked her for a drink of water and she said to him, Who art thou? and he said to her, I was this day going on the road, and reached here when the sun set, so I will abide here all night, and in the morning I will arise early and continue my journey.



39 And the young woman went into the house and fetched the man bread and water to eat and drink.



40 And this affair became known to the people of Admah, and they assembled and brought the young woman before the judges, that they should judge her for this act.

Book of Jasher, Chapter 19 | Internet Sacred Text Archive

Christianity: 1 And the cities of Sodom had four judges to four cities, and these were their names, Serak in the city of Sodom, Sharkad in Gomorrah, Zab...

sacred-texts.com

The Mark of the Beast and the way Sodom treated the poor?​

Zone1 Thread 'The Mark of the Beast and the way Sodom treated the poor?'

Nov 30, 2025

Is there a possible connection between the future Mark of the Beast with the way that the City of Sodom treated the poor?

This is written about in an ancient Jewish Book called "The Book of Jasher."

25 And a poor man came into the city to seek a maintenance, and he remained in the city some days, and all the people of Sodom caused a proclamation of their custom not to give this man a morsel of bread to eat, until he dropped dead upon the earth, and they did so.



26 And Paltith the daughter of Lot saw this man lying in the streets starved with hunger, and no one would give him any...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Religion and Ethics