Question for Democrats, Libs, and Leftists

LibertyWeeps

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Now, if you can keep a civil thought and speak with a civil tongue...........
I'd like to ask a question.

If there were an alternative to keeping illegals who DO NOT have criminal records, and have the means for them to become citizens.......
Would you accept the below proposal for it?

Proposal -

All illegals who DO NOT have any kind of criminal record (aside from coming here illegally) shall be given a choice of how to become a citizen or given a free ticket to go any other country they want.

The choices are as follows:

*Entering the military for no less than 4 years.
*Going to government school to learn English, American history, American culture, manners, etiquette, and social responsibility while working a government approved job for 4 years.
*Going back to where you came from and applying for citizenship the LEGAL way, as millions of others have done.
*If you don't want to go back to your country, pick one and we will send you there via a free one-way ticket, but you can never come back here, not even for vacation.

Would this be more of a compromise than just sending everybody back to where they came from?
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Not a fan of #1 (Military) and #2 (School).

As a general rule, if you are an adult and entered the country illegally then there should be no path the permenance and/or citizenship.

If you have no criminal history and you voluntarily turn youself in, I'm open to providing transportation back to a home country and call it even. You can apply for future admission under existing programs no-harm-no-foul.

On the other hand if DHS has to find you, detain you, and involuntarily deport you - then you are tagged and cannot return in the future.
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I think the current anti-ICE/anti-CBP wave is less to do with the actual act of deportation, it's about the constant military like stance of teams and their methods of operation:
  • paramilitary squads (dress, manner, automatic long-arms, etc.)
  • Sweeps
  • Unconstitutional searches of property without a judicial warrant
  • Stopping citizens
  • "Paper" checks with no justification
  • The equivalant of SWAT like teams to pick up people at court proceedings while their status is being adjudicated
  • etc.
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IMHO the solution to illegal aliens will eventually have to center on lack of access to public services (schools, economic and housing support, etc.) and having a meaningful way for employers to verify work eligibility BEFORE hiring and then hold employers accountable. That is one side of the coin, the other is expaned guest worker programs where people can come here on a temporary basis and then be held responsible for leaving when their time has expired.

WW
 
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Not a fan of #1 (Military) and #2 (School).

As a general rule, if you are an adult and entered the country illegally then there should be no path the permenance and/or citizenship.

If you have no criminal history and you voluntarily turn youself in, I'm open to providing transportation back to a home country and call it even. You can apply for future admission under existing programs no-harm-no-foul.

On the other hand if DHS has to find you, detain you, and involuntarily deport you - then you are tagged and cannot return in the future.
.
.
.
.
I think the current anti-ICE/anti-CBP wave is less to do with the actual act of deportation, it's about the constant military like stance of teams and their methods of operation:
  • paramilitary squads
  • Sweeps
  • Unconstitutional searches of property without a judicial warrant
  • etc.
.
.
.
.
IMHO the solution to illegal aliens will eventually have to center on lack of access to public services (schools, economic and housing support, etc.) and having a meaningful way for employers to verify work eligibility BEFORE hiring and then hold employers accountable. That is one side of the coin, the other is expaned guest worker programs where people can come here on a temporary basis and then be held responsible for leaving when their time has expired.

WW
While I'm sure their are million here illegally that would serve either in the military or government jobs and do a great job and can be trusted, there are probably millions who would not do a great job and are here to spy on us or to cause harm to the country. Definitely out with Number 1 and probably with Number 2 as well. Just admit to getting caught up in the excitement of coming to America, leave peacefully, and do all of Number 2 from your country of origin. Unless, of course, you truly are need protection from your homeland.

As for your concern about how ICE is put together and does their job, how else would you send these brave ICE persons out to do their jobs safely for themselves? They are mainly looking for criminals who are potentially violent while confronting violent Democrat Communists. I don't see any alternative but to go in paramilitary like. In fact, I would like to see the military come in and quickly do the work and get out.
 
As for your concern about how ICE is put together and does their job, how else would you send these brave ICE persons out to do their jobs safely for themselves? They are mainly looking for criminals who are potentially violent while confronting violent Democrat Communists. I don't see any alternative but to go in paramilitary like. In fact, I would like to see the military come in and quickly do the work and get out.

By being respectful and not acting like paramilitary thugs.

By being in proper uniforms. By being properly badged with names displayed. Like State Police and local PD's and Sheriff Departments for general operations.

And I don't now, not shooting women in the head and a man in the back.

That would be a start.

WW
 
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By being respectful and not acting like paramilitary thugs.

By being in proper uniforms. By being properly badged with names displayed. Like State Police and local PD's and Sheriff Departments for general operations.

And I don't now, not shooting women in the head and a man in the back.

That would be a start.

WW

Actually I do agree with that part.
Police are now armed with tasers and are told to use such tasers in lieu of hand guns.
They are only to use guns to protect themselves if being attacked with weapons.

The could have shot the vehicle engine or shot out the womans tires. An easy arrest.
Shooting her in the shoulder would have been logical as well.
But she was thinking she had the right to harass law enforcement and then attempt to escape in a vehicle that was surrounded by agents, hitting one of them. SHE made THAT decision. If she had left her vehicle in park and TALKED to them like civilized people, she'd be home with her kids right now.

Same with the other guy. The agents were attempting to ignore him, but he kept harassing them and getting closer and closer.
Then he vandalized a government vehicle. They stopped and tried to get him to go away. Thats when they saw his gun, and all hell broke loose. Once again, PRETTI was not forced to harass officers nor was he forced to leave the safety zone to get close to the agents in question. Pretti made those decisions all on his own.

Yes, these agents can be better trained in marksmanship, so just shooting someone in the shoulder or leg would stop the assailant.
But when you are being attacked by screaming lunatics, you have no idea what their plans are.

But thats not my question. I just want to know what the left thinks would be a better plan at allowing the NON-criminal people to stay here.
 
By being respectful and not acting like paramilitary thugs.

By being in proper uniforms. By being properly badged with names displayed. Like State Police and local PD's and Sheriff Departments for general operations.

And I don't now, not shooting women in the head and a man in the back.

That would be a start.

WW.
Well, guess what? They are not local, state, sheriff police. They are federal agents. So no, should we also have the National Guard wear policy uniforms with name tags on? Get real.

As for ICE being responsible for deaths, from what I see, 4 people have died under Trump's 2nd term. Under Obama's 8 years, ICE killed 56 people while removing 3 million illegal aliens. So, why don't you seem to remember this fact?

The start would be arresting the entire Biden administration for causing this problem. 20-30 million illegals, many criminals, poured into the U.S. They all should be charged with co-conspirators for murder for the deaths of these 4 people.

Now, back into your hole commie.
 
Actually I do agree with that part.
Police are now armed with tasers and are told to use such tasers in lieu of hand guns.
They are only to use guns to protect themselves if being attacked with weapons.

The could have shot the vehicle engine or shot out the womans tires. An easy arrest.
Shooting her in the shoulder would have been logical as well.
But she was thinking she had the right to harass law enforcement and then attempt to escape in a vehicle that was surrounded by agents, hitting one of them. SHE made THAT decision. If she had left her vehicle in park and TALKED to them like civilized people, she'd be home with her kids right now.

#1 I don't condone her actions, however DHS Agents chose to engage. She did not obstruct their operations, she stopped her vehicle perpendicular to the flow of traffic, a traffic violation outside the jurisdiction of Federal law enfocement. She did not impede their movement, as a matter of fact Officer Ross drove around here vehicle and exited his vehicle from the other side of Good. The shooting took place on Portland Avenue around the interstection of East 32nd street. The images/video of the event clearly show (as does the image below) there was plenty of room to proceed but DHS Agents decided to engage.

#2 DHS Policy is that agents do not place themselves in front of a running vehcile and that they do not attempt to shoot a fleeing vehicle. Because unlike the movies a sidearm isn't going to stop the motion of a multi-ton vehicle in motion.

#3 There was one shot in the windshield (lower drivers side near the A-Frame), the 2nd and 3rd shotsd were from the side when Officer Ross was already out of the way. So he continued to fire at a fleeing vehciel in violation of policy and training and put one through the drivers side window through the right side of Good's head.

Same with the other guy. The agents were attempting to ignore him, but he kept harassing them and getting closer and closer.
Then he vandalized a government vehicle. They stopped and tried to get him to go away. Thats when they saw his gun, and all hell broke loose. Once again, PRETTI was not forced to harass officers nor was he forced to leave the safety zone to get close to the agents in question. Pretti made those decisions all on his own.

#1 No the agents didn't "attempt to ignore him" he was filming from the street, attempted to help another woman and DHS agents approched him after crossing the street.

#2 He did not damage a vehicle that day, that was 11 days before the shooting and had no bearing on the events of the day he was killed.

#3 ".They stopped and tried to get him to go away", ah no. Again they approced him and initiated violence, when he attemptet to help another woman they OC sprayed him in the face and then threw him to the ground. Ever been sprayed with OC in the face? You are blinded and it causes severe pain in the eyes, nose, and mouth. At this point they had no idea that Pretti was a legal CC holder and had a firearm holstered on his back. Pretti never once reached for any weapon and through the entire event his hands are visible in front and holding his cell phone.

#4 During the scrum where 4-5 officer are holding Pretti face down on his knees/belly his jacket rides up an officer in a gray coat sees it, calls it out, removes it from the holster, exits the scrum. After officer departed and the firearm was clear, then the officer in the black mask shot Pretti in the back. He then continued to fire at an unarmed man on the ground and triggered another offcer to fire his weapon.

Yes, these agents can be better trained in marksmanship, so just shooting someone in the shoulder or leg would stop the assailant.

I don't now, their marksmenship seemed just fine. The fired and hit their targets. They shot an unarmed woman attempting to drive away through the temple and shot an unarmed man on the ground in the back 10 times.

But when you are being attacked by screaming lunatics, you have no idea what their plans are.

I don't give a rat fart "what their plans are". What I judge is actions. In both cases DHS Agents escallated the violence instead of descalating the scene. The violated the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments of citizens who where:
  • Exercising their right to protest and assemble.
  • 2nd Amendment right to lawfully carry a firearm.
  • 4th Amendment right to be secure in their persons because of violence committed against them.

But thats not my question. I just want to know what the left thinks would be a better plan at allowing the NON-criminal people to stay here.

OK.

Then respond to this if you wish but I'll disengage on the specifics of the shooting which you seemed uninformed about.

WW

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They can be deported if caught. Being we rarely address their employer most will stay.
they are being deported .. now they are being deported .. not so much during the last leftist regime that caused massive damage to this country ..
 
what about the millions that don't show up for their asylum hearing..

If they entered the country illegally and/or were granted asylum proceedings and failed to report...

Then they are unlawfully present and can be deported. But they have not committed a criminal offense.

WW
 
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