Punitive enforcement of Society's Rules.

[Man of Ethics]

For some strange reason, many people are fascinated with Horror and Suffering. Historical documentaries are much more interesting and real then many of the fictional ghost stories. Many Civilizations inflicted severe punishment and suffering on those who broke the Law of The Land. In this nanoessay, I present a very small slice of History of Penal Systems and a very brief philosophical discussion on the issue.


One of the worst punishments practiced in China was Lingchi -- cutting the convict to pieces. In Ancient Persia, one of the worst punishments was Scaphism -- a person rotted for days in their own waste.


One of the worst tortures known to Humans is the SuperMax prison. The convict experiences terrible suffering for years or decades. This punishment is neither historic nor rare. In USA 2022, about 60,000 people (over 96% male) are in SuperMax. In about 2010, population of SuperMax reached a maximum population of about 120,000. Many SuperMax prisoners become insane from years of suffering, and almost all of them find ways to harm themselves. To understand the suffering of SuperMax prisoners, see the video at 11min55s:
[video]


Many humanitarians including myself have spoken against the excessive cruelty of American Penal System and Cancel Culture. Humanitarians have also condemned harsh Penal Systems which have been used to support Injustice. For instance, Russian Penal System in 1648-1861 was primarily used to enforce Serfdom. Chinese Penal System in 1966-1976 was used to support the Cultural Revolution which has lead to millions of excess deaths.


Nevertheless, in some strange way, documentary films about prisons remain strangely fascinating to many people. This may be explained by a paradoxical reason. Punitive enforcement of Society's Rules is one of the foundations of Society. Even the most Truly Liberal Society must have a Penal System. One example of such Society is Modern Finland. Even the most tolerant and humane Society must have a power structure which punitively enforces Society's Rules.

 

[beagle9]

For some strange reason, many people are fascinated with Horror and Suffering. Historical documentaries are much more interesting and real then many of the fictional ghost stories. Many Civilizations inflicted severe punishment and suffering on those who broke the Law of The Land. In this nanoessay, I present a very small slice of History of Penal Systems and a very brief philosophical discussion on the issue.


One of the worst punishments practiced in China was Lingchi -- cutting the convict to pieces. In Ancient Persia, one of the worst punishments was Scaphism -- a person rotted for days in their own waste.


One of the worst tortures known to Humans is the SuperMax prison. The convict experiences terrible suffering for years or decades. This punishment is neither historic nor rare. In USA 2022, about 60,000 people (over 96% male) are in SuperMax. In about 2010, population of SuperMax reached a maximum population of about 120,000. Many SuperMax prisoners become insane from years of suffering, and almost all of them find ways to harm themselves. To understand the suffering of SuperMax prisoners, see the video at 11min55s:
[video]


Many humanitarians including myself have spoken against the excessive cruelty of American Penal System and Cancel Culture. Humanitarians have also condemned harsh Penal Systems which have been used to support Injustice. For instance, Russian Penal System in 1648-1861 was primarily used to enforce Serfdom. Chinese Penal System in 1966-1976 was used to support the Cultural Revolution which has lead to millions of excess deaths.


Nevertheless, in some strange way, documentary films about prisons remain strangely fascinating to many people. This may be explained by a paradoxical reason. Punitive enforcement of Society's Rules is one of the foundations of Society. Even the most Truly Liberal Society must have a Penal System. One example of such Society is Modern Finland. Even the most tolerant and humane Society must have a power structure which punitively enforces Society's Rules.

So are you for or against the enforcement of societies rules ?

 

[1srelluc]

If it's one thing convicts feared it was our Super Max.....Virginia's Red Onion prison.

It's one thing to do 15 days in the hole and then be released back into population but it's another thing entirely to go "sit on the onion".

Same with it's sister Wallens Ridge.

And you don't have to be a axe-murderer to go to one of them....Just involvement in certain gangs will get you a trip to SW Virginia even if you just have a year of felon time to do.

The thinking is to isolate the ganged-up convict least he infect other convicts. Sure it's harsh but it seems to work. As a result there is very little overt gang activity in Virginia prisons.

 

[Man of Ethics]

If it's one thing convicts feared it was our Super Max.....Virginia's Red Onion prison.

It's one thing to do 15 days in the hole and then be released back into population but it's another thing entirely to go "sit on the onion".

Are there any documentaries about that prison?

 

[Man of Ethics]

So are you for or against the enforcement of societies rules ?

For. As long as
1) Enforcement is not excessive
2) Rules are not unjust

 

[1srelluc]

Are there any documentaries about that prison?

Dated and more than a little on the "do-gooder" side but here you go:



BTW.....Most of that howling you hear is for the benefit of the camera folks.....One the whole it's really pretty quiet.....Except for a full moon.

 

[whitehall]

Try getting arrested in relative nearby South American and Central American prisons before you make a quantum leap in logic to claim the U.S. Max Prisons "are one of the worse tortures known to humans". Maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" should travel the world before he condemns his own Country or maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" is just another anti-American foreign poster.

 

[1srelluc]

Try getting arrested in relative nearby South American and Central American prisons before you make a quantum leap in logic to claim the U.S. Max Prisons "are one of the worse tortures known to humans". Maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" should travel the world before he condemns his own Country or maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" is just another anti-American foreign poster.

Meh, most folks don't know jack about the various DOCs across the nation.....Hell, there are more people with 1st hand knowledge that's been in and out of prison than some do-gooder will ever glean.

All people know is that they don't want to spend any money on keeping the convicts locked away but at the same time expect them to be treated well.

I'll say this, I was damn glad when the feds stepped in back in the early 70s and established standards the states had to meet. Prisons were animal houses back then due to overcrowding and a host of other ills.

Today's prisons are a huge improvement.....Except the food sucks now.....We did feed them really good back in the day. Fresh meat and veggies every day....Not the processed crap being served now.

 

[whitehall]

Good food and protection from assault. Clean conditions and 24/7 access to legal jurisdiction and the left calls it "torture". Get some freaking perspective.

 

[1srelluc]

Good food and protection from assault. Clean conditions and the left calls it "torture". Get some freaking perspective.

I would not call the food these days "good" but it meets the nutritional requirements set forth by the feds.

 

[whitehall]

I would not call the food these days "good" but it meets the nutritional requirements set forth by the feds.

You wouldn't call it "good food'? It doesn't do any good to compare the conditions in other regimes because the crybabies are in freaking charge.

 

[1srelluc]

You wouldn't call it "good food'? It doesn't do any good to compare the conditions in other regimes because the crybabies are in freaking charge.

What the blue fuck are you going on about?

1970s.....Really good food, most of it grown by the convicts, we raised our own livestock. Hell, we even served steak a couple of times a month....Sorta chewy at times but it was steak.....The only thing we bought was chicken and that was reserved for Sunday supper.

Above the chow line was a sign "take what you want, eat what you take"....They worked hard and we fed well.

Today.....Little in the way of fresh anything. Various processed meat products mostly made of turkey. About the only thing made fresh daily is the bread/rolls. Think of it like a school lunch.

Convicts live mostly on commissary items these days. I suspect a lot more food is wasted now than back in the day because it pretty much sucks.

 

[beagle9]

What the blue fuck are you going on about?

1970s.....Really good food, most of it grown by the convicts, we raised our own livestock. Hell, we even served steak a couple of times a month....Sorta chewy at times but it was steak.....The only thing we bought was chicken and that was reserved for Sunday supper.

Above the chow line was a sign "take what you want, eat what you take"....They worked hard and we fed well.

Today.....Little in the way of fresh anything. Various processed meat products mostly made of turkey. About the only thing made fresh daily is the bread/rolls. Think of it like a school lunch.

Convicts live mostly on commissary items these days. I suspect a lot more food is wasted now than back in the day because it pretty much sucks.

It should suck, the criminal pieces of crap.

 

[1srelluc]

It should suck, the criminal pieces of crap.

It's just the difference between "warehousing" convicts and having them out doing meaningful work to support themselves.....Adjusted for inflation the average cost per meal now is almost 5X than what is was in the 70s. The tax-payer pays for that....Oh well, that's the the way you want it, you gets it.

 

[Moonglow]

Good food and protection from assault. Clean conditions and 24/7 access to legal jurisdiction and the left calls it "torture". Get some freaking perspective.

You call it a retirement home.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Dated and more than a little on the "do-gooder" side but here you go:



BTW.....Most of that howling you hear is for the benefit of the camera folks.....One the whole it's really pretty quiet.....Except for a full moon.

Very interesting documentary.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Try getting arrested in relative nearby South American and Central American prisons before you make a quantum leap in logic to claim the U.S. Max Prisons "are one of the worse tortures known to humans". Maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" should travel the world before he condemns his own Country or maybe the self proclaimed "man of ethics" is just another anti-American foreign poster.

I am a US citizen since 1989.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Good food and protection from assault. Clean conditions and 24/7 access to legal jurisdiction and the left calls it "torture". Get some freaking perspective.

Long term Solitary Confinement is one of the worst tortures known to Humankind. It lasts years or decades of immense suffering.

 

[beagle9]

It's just the difference between "warehousing" convicts and having them out doing meaningful work to support themselves.....Adjusted for inflation the average cost per meal now is almost 5X than what is was in the 70s. The tax-payer pays for that....Oh well, that's the the way you want it, you gets it.

Maybe you misunderstood my post... I said that the food should suck, otherwise good for the criminal piece's of crap. They should have thought of all this before they decided to become career criminal's. No sympathy for a criminal, but after say his or her sentence is about to expire, and they've shown tremendous improvement or rehabilitation, then maybe, then maybe, but it's a huge maybe that they somehow are assimilated back into society somehow.

Maybe we can always hope, but it's definitely not the norm that they can reassimilate without issues.