Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

[Coyote]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

So we can pull down statues of abolitionists and marital cheaters like MLK ?

Wouldn't be at all a fan of doing this, but. . .

Rochester, NY, last night. The far lefties beat you to the punch when the took down a statue of famous abolitionist Frederick Douglass. These assholes are historically fucking illiterate. I say public corporal punishment for these fuckers. Cane 'em like they do in Singapore.

Yup there is a lot of mob ignorance going on.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

So we can pull down statues of abolitionists and marital cheaters like MLK ?

Wouldn't be at all a fan of doing this, but. . .

Rochester, NY, last night. The far lefties beat you to the punch when the took down a statue of famous abolitionist Frederick Douglass. These assholes are historically fucking illiterate. I say public corporal punishment for these fuckers. Cane 'em like they do in Singapore.

Yup there is a lot of mob ignorance going on.

I disagree strongly on your overall take on this situation, obviously, but I am truly glad that we can at least agree on this ^

It'd be nice to see more of the mainstream left take a few steps back from the ledge on this mob rule tactic.

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

You forgot to specify meanness, betrayal and extreme arrogance

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

Might makes right is a leftist tradition. Critical theory, which has filtered through from academia and become all the craze with your fellow travelers, literally posits that humans have no access to objective truth, and that therefore all discourse between people boils down to those people jostling for power for their respective identity groups. The pseudo-post modern pseudo-Marxists pushing this movement view everything in terms of power dynamics. Claiming that America is based on this is pure projection.

The American Constitution was somewhat revolutionary in its championing of the rights of individuals (though the Magna Carta, as an example, had already codified this philosophical course of action), and was extremely revolutionary in specifically being designed to protect those individual freedoms FROM power by enshrining those rights in law and creating a system of governance around checks, balances, and a separation of power designed specifically to prevent its accumulation into the hands of an elite few. That document was constructed, of course, after the American Revolution, during which a tiny group of colonies declared their right to independence from the nation with the world's most powerful military and the greatest naval force the world had ever seen. If those people were possessed of the attitude that you claim, no such revolution would have happened. Aside from being projection, claiming that the American system is based on "might makes right" is also ignorant as fuck.

Moreover, you say that the system is based on might makes right, AND that protest is legit? Protest is literally how average people come together to speak out against people in power. These two values you've posited are diametrically opposed, and no system BASED on such a blatant contradiction would have lasted this long or had anywhere near this sort of measurable success.

That said, protest is legit, and that IS an American tradition. The reason that those of us who are against these protests are, in fact, against them, is primarily threefold.

1. The powerful/influential people backing the protests, along with many of the protesters, have called us murderers for wanting to brave Covid so that we can go to work to pay our bills, feed our families, and keep the nation's economic heart pumping. Now that THEIR values demand risking Covid, suddenly chanting shoulder to shoulder in the street is more important than not being what those same people have already defined as a murderer.

2. We disagree with the overall aim of the protesters. "9 unarmed black men were killed by the police last year. That, coupled with the fact that there were things that this nation did in history that were bad, obligates you to give our leadership absolute control over the economy and the full authority to dictate what is and isn't okay to say in public." Not saying you can't demand it, just saying don't be surprised when you're told to STFU and go home.

3. Perhaps most importantly, we disagree (to put it fucking lightly) with the constant conflation out of the mainstream left of protesting and rioting. The protesting on which the US tradition is based is, as the Constitution states, PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY. Defacing monuments is what you do when the overthrow is in progress. We disagree with the protesters who indignantly and repeatedly remind us that most of them are peaceful, while simultaneously admitting that it's not their place to police the angry people who are engaging in violent behavior at their events. The people who acknowledge the violence within their ranks, and then act as human shields through their willful refusal to either call it out or get out of the way so that the rioters can be dealt with effectively.

If you take an honest look at where the "kicking" is coming from, and what we're "kicking" against, it shouldn't be difficult to understand.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

View attachment 360405

I guess the system of constitutional democracy, the invention of the electrical grid, the automobile, and air travel don't count as civilization? Turning the tide against the Nazi's and then rebuilding a huge portion of the world that was devastated by that war was probably pretty meaningless in that regard, too, huh? Putting a man on the moon and being perhaps the foremost progenitor of the economic system that's taken humanity from 140 thousand'ish years at 90+ percent extreme poverty to 10 percent is probably a throw-away accomplishment, as well.

Pretty easy to sit in historically unique safety and economic security and act like you're morally superior to those who came before you, though. That stuff probably all built itself, huh? Enjoy, I guess?

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

Does it mean i can pull down the monument of MLK? Or can i burn the residence of the speaker of the house? At what point does the violence , terror and destruction end? When the violent ones are shot and killed?

According to the op Nothing could be more American now !
Its just a good ol American tradition and thiers absolutely nothing wrong with it .
All that stuff belongs in a museum anyway where the always outraged left wing outrage mob starts a socail media movement to Destroy the museums promoting "racism, violence or hate or white supremcy" ...blah blah blah baah zzzzz

Censor or Destroy the museums coming to a town near you sooner or later

 

[emilynghiem]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

Dear Coyote
It has also been a historical trend in genocidal slavery
to rape the women and forcibly breed more slaves.

Which is part of the genocidal oppression being protested.
Do two wrongs make a right?

In the case of getting rid of statues of British royalty,
those were the current oppressors.

Who are the current oppressors today?

The saddest thing is the liberal politicians who keep
"blaming others" for the oppression have REFUSED
to implement solutions that would free constituents from
political dependence on govt fueling cycles of poverty.

The "enemy" here is within.

Half the nation who supports uplifting people through
economic and educational development to break the cycle of poverty and oppression
DO NOT DESERVE to be "collectively blamed and punished"
by destroying property when these are NOT the current oppressors
(as in the case of Great Britain subjugating the colonists and leading to revolution).

The problem America faces is a whole generation and movement of
people "enslaved and oppressed within their own minds" where they
have so much resentment and blame for others, they cannot make use
of the available resources to revolutionize the system directly.

I have found these solutions and OFFERED them to fellow Democrats to fix these problems,
and a lot of the liberals and progressives REFUSE to accept responsibility.

So how is that the fault of others?

If the people REFUSE to implement solutions because of the politics
that benefits from "blaming other groups" to solicit votes and donations?

Sorry but it is wrongful to blame the wrong people
then try to justify destruction of public property that is not responsible
for the problems of oppression that people can solve ourselves, without violence!

 

[emilynghiem]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

No Tommy Tainant
The basis of Constitutional laws is CONSENT.
It is an AGREEMENT between people and government
what duties and extent of authority is to be granted,
so the people are the ultimate check against collective abuse of power,
resources and authority.

* No taxation without representation.
* No deprivation of life, liberty or property without DUE PROCESS OF LAWS.
* Equal Justice Under Law

Where "consent of the governed" is specifically spelled out is the Declaration of Independence:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

Especially for those who build on Christian foundations,
establishing Universal Truth and Justice depends on AGREEMENT
between people (Matthew 18:15-20)


19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Laws are supposed to reflect CONSENT of the parties affected
in order to be legally binding contracts. Otherwise, imposing policies
without consent of the people affected is abusive, unnatural and
not ethical or sustainable to enforce. The whole point of the democratic
process is for people to share responsibility for self government.

www.ethics-commission.net

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yup...it’s nothing new.

Pulling down statues? It’s a tradition that dates back to U.S. independence

Enthusiasm for the American Revolution led colonists to burn, disfigure, and deface any symbol of Britain and its hated king.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fireworks, bands, and cookouts are essential ingredients of any Fourth of July celebration. What’s usually not on the menu is toppling statues, ripping down signs, or burning portraits. But in the days following the new nation’s declaration of independence, Americans went on a frenzy of destruction that makes today’s attackson Confederate and other symbols of white supremacy pale by comparison.
The most dramatic act took place in New York City on July 9, 1776. Early that evening, General George Washington and his troops, along with hundreds of citizens, crowded into what is now City Hall Park to hear a reading of the document that had just arrived from Philadelphia. The enthusiastic throng then headed for Broadway and the two-ton equestrian statue of King George III on Bowling Green.
This was the same route protestors took in 1765 when New Yorkers demonstrated against the Stamp Act taxing a host of goods. The following year, the colony’s assembly commissioned the statue in recognition of the king’s support in repealing the despised legislation. Modeled on the classical equestrian sculpture of Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, it arrived from London in 1770 and was erected with great pomp. When John Adams paid his first visit to New York in 1774, he wrote to his wife Abigail that the king’s statue was “very large, of solid lead, gilded with gold, standing on a pedestal of marble very high.”

Two years later, fervent New Yorkers, with the help of Washington’s soldiers, quickly pulled it from its plinth and broke it into pieces. Much of the lead was shipped to Connecticut and melted down to make 42,008 bullets.

U.S. Postmaster Ebenezer Hazard wrote that the statue “has been pulled down to make musket ball of, so that his troops will probably have melted Majesty fired at them.”

A British officer who had the decapitated head rescued from a tavern before it reached the furnace noted that the nose was severed, the laurels were awry, and a musket ball was lodged “part of the way through his head.” He had it shipped back to London “to convince them at home of the infamous disposition of the ungrateful people of this distressed country.”


Washington wrote that while he didn’t doubt the zeal of those who mutilated the statue, he decried what had “so much the appearance of a riot, and want of order.” He told his soldiers to steer clear of such incidents in the future. (Washington also fought an epidemic during the American Revolution.)

Does it mean i can pull down the monument of MLK? Or can i burn the residence of the speaker of the house? At what point does the violence , terror and destruction end? When the violent ones are shot and killed?

According to the op Nothing could be more American now !
Its just a good ol American tradition and thiers absolutely nothing wrong with it .
All that stuff belongs in a museum anyway where the always outraged left wing outrage mob starts a socail media movement to Destroy the museums promoting "racism, violence or hate or white supremcy" ...blah blah blah baah zzzzz

Censor or Destroy the museums coming to a town near you sooner or later

Yup. If anyone thinks these people are going to be satisfied if these historical figures likenesses are still standing ANYWHERE, it's because they haven't been paying attention.

As the lefties started leveraging social media companies to kick people off of their platforms for "hate speech", they told the conservatives who bitched about it that Twitter and FB and Youtube are all private corporations, and that if the right doesn't like it, they should go start their own social media platforms. Then, as other people do try to start alternative networks where political dissidents can have a voice, the same mainstream lefties who told the cons to go build their own platforms, point to the fact that the political outcasts from their networks have reemerged on these up-and-coming sites and use that fact as a justification to attack their potential advertisers and attempt to deplatform them.

These people aren't satisfied with dominance of the public discourse. The unfortunate reality is that they seek to eliminate all dissent, root and stem. They don't want the things that offend them to be marginalized, they want them to not exist.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

Because might makes right and the protesters need some might shoved up their asses. It's only right.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

Might makes right is a leftist tradition. Critical theory, which has filtered through from academia and become all the craze with your fellow travelers, literally posits that humans have no access to objective truth, and that therefore all discourse between people boils down to those people jostling for power for their respective identity groups. The pseudo-post modern pseudo-Marxists pushing this movement view everything in terms of power dynamics. Claiming that America is based on this is pure projection.

The American Constitution was somewhat revolutionary in its championing of the rights of individuals (though the Magna Carta, as an example, had already codified this philosophical course of action), and was extremely revolutionary in specifically being designed to protect those individual freedoms FROM power by enshrining those rights in law and creating a system of governance around checks, balances, and a separation of power designed specifically to prevent its accumulation into the hands of an elite few. That document was constructed, of course, after the American Revolution, during which a tiny group of colonies declared their right to independence from the nation with the world's most powerful military and the greatest naval force the world had ever seen. If those people were possessed of the attitude that you claim, no such revolution would have happened. Aside from being projection, claiming that the American system is based on "might makes right" is also ignorant as fuck.

Moreover, you say that the system is based on might makes right, AND that protest is legit? Protest is literally how average people come together to speak out against people in power. These two values you've posited are diametrically opposed, and no system BASED on such a blatant contradiction would have lasted this long or had anywhere near this sort of measurable success.

That said, protest is legit, and that IS an American tradition. The reason that those of us who are against these protests are, in fact, against them, is primarily threefold.

1. The powerful/influential people backing the protests, along with many of the protesters, have called us murderers for wanting to brave Covid so that we can go to work to pay our bills, feed our families, and keep the nation's economic heart pumping. Now that THEIR values demand risking Covid, suddenly chanting shoulder to shoulder in the street is more important than not being what those same people have already defined as a murderer.

2. We disagree with the overall aim of the protesters. "9 unarmed black men were killed by the police last year. That, coupled with the fact that there were things that this nation did in history that were bad, obligates you to give our leadership absolute control over the economy and the full authority to dictate what is and isn't okay to say in public." Not saying you can't demand it, just saying don't be surprised when you're told to STFU and go home.

3. Perhaps most importantly, we disagree (to put it fucking lightly) with the constant conflation out of the mainstream left of protesting and rioting. The protesting on which the US tradition is based is, as the Constitution states, PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY. Defacing monuments is what you do when the overthrow is in progress. We disagree with the protesters who indignantly and repeatedly remind us that most of them are peaceful, while simultaneously admitting that it's not their place to police the angry people who are engaging in violent behavior at their events. The people who acknowledge the violence within their ranks, and then act as human shields through their willful refusal to either call it out or get out of the way so that the rioters can be dealt with effectively.

If you take an honest look at where the "kicking" is coming from, and what we're "kicking" against, it shouldn't be difficult to understand.

You do well to build a case but you leave out several pertinent facts. Might is right saw off the Native Americans because you had guns. Might is right subjected Black folk to 4 centuries of oppression which continues to this day. Check out the horrific postings of the recidivists on this site.
I also note that Kapernik protested peacefully and lost his job on the back of it. Is protest a white only privilege?

 

[Olde Europe]

Yup there is a lot of mob ignorance going on.

Is there, Coyote? For to me it would appear you are falling for Not2BSubjugated's mendacity. As of now, it is unclear who vandalized that statue, there is no evidence pointing to anyone.

For all I care, this may well have been a case of what righties on here already started to gloat about, that is, revenge vandalism by Robert E. Lee's heirs targeting statues the other side cherishes.

 

[Disir]

After Lexington & Concord, did King George rethink his colonial policies, consider easing up on the Coercive Acts or reopening Boston Harbor? Nope. It's not good to harden your position against protesters sometimes; the colonists' attitudes also hardened against the King for his refusal to meet them halfway. Everything went downhill from there.

Trump is following that same playbook, although BLM is keeping its cannons in the garage for the moment--I'm not suggesting we are working up to a shooting war here. But by not listening, by simply dismissing them and talking like they're the "enemy," Trump is hardening the protesters' attitudes toward the government, too. Locally, towns and cities are making changes, so maybe this thing will eventually die down, thanks to cooler heads. But on a national level, he's making the same mistake King George did. A lot of you are. The summer isn't half over. It's going to be a long one, the more people resist listening to each other.

I was scrolling through TikTok last night and there was an older couple with a kid. They say in unison whilst words flash across the screen the following; Trump is a white supremacist and if you vote for him then you are a white supremacist too. There is not a doubt in my mind that these people believe their own bullshit. Further, there are already the seeds being planted in preparation for Trump's reelection of how-once again- this election was stolen and there could be an uprising.

The time for "listening to each other" has passed. I notice that comes at the very end when everything written prior to that line appears to indicate that only one side needs to listen. It passed the day that locally owned businesses were burned to the ground and the looting began. For some of the good folks on this forum, they had a responsibility to do their own research on how the system actually works. That was entirely too much work and it was far easier to allow others to use stats from the 1990s. It was easier not to research some of the non-profits that were rolling out policy.

This will be the second time that I will not be voting for Trump. But, I will not be voting for Biden. The thought of voting for anyone in the Democratic Party makes my skin crawl.

I'm sitting out on the sidelines again as well.

I would vote for Trump, but I just know too much.

Biden is a joke.

Both these monsters are a war mongers, and they are both working with some nasty folks.

Trump hasn't got them out of his administration, and he lies too much about what he has claimed he was going to do, versus what he actually does.

But as far as this "false paradigm" about Trump not caring, and Biden being a uniter? You are right. It is bullshit.

Trump is going out there trying to listen, while Biden is hiding in his basement, using money funneled through ACTBLUE, the Ford foundation, and the corporate media's interlocking directorate, to propagandize the nation into hating each other. It is sick, it is like one of Soros' color revolutions, right here at home.

Biden plans to stay home, testing limits of virtual campaign

Joe Biden has no foreseeable plans to resume in-person campaigning amid a pandemic that is testing whether a national presidential election can be won by a candidate communicating almost entirely from home.

apnews.com

Ben Carson says Trump considering 'national listening tour' to engage with black community

Housing and Urban Development Secretary Dr. Ben Carson told "Bill Hemmer Reports" Wednesday that President Trump is weighing embarking on a "national listening tour" to engage with and hear the concerns of minority communities.

www.foxnews.com

They are warmongers. But, this whole Trump needs to listen is bullshit. It doesn't matter what he says or does. The entire thing is bullshit. This is a political party that feels that they were denied their rightful place on the throne. Since no one is buying into their let"s support USAID bullshit and the corporations and major donors don't want to solve some of the problems they keep their little army going by making them feel like little saints.

What's fantastic is these fuckers still believe that this is controllable chaos. I mean it works in other countries, amiright? And these clowns are capable of recognizing that there are countries that want to exploit weaknesses but not smart enough to recognize it's their own little precious groups that are being exploited? Come on.

 

[Disir]

As a nation the US is based on the proposition that might is right and that protest is legit. Why are you all kicking against this ?

What do you get out of it?

 

[MisterBeale]

After Lexington & Concord, did King George rethink his colonial policies, consider easing up on the Coercive Acts or reopening Boston Harbor? Nope. It's not good to harden your position against protesters sometimes; the colonists' attitudes also hardened against the King for his refusal to meet them halfway. Everything went downhill from there.

Trump is following that same playbook, although BLM is keeping its cannons in the garage for the moment--I'm not suggesting we are working up to a shooting war here. But by not listening, by simply dismissing them and talking like they're the "enemy," Trump is hardening the protesters' attitudes toward the government, too. Locally, towns and cities are making changes, so maybe this thing will eventually die down, thanks to cooler heads. But on a national level, he's making the same mistake King George did. A lot of you are. The summer isn't half over. It's going to be a long one, the more people resist listening to each other.

I was scrolling through TikTok last night and there was an older couple with a kid. They say in unison whilst words flash across the screen the following; Trump is a white supremacist and if you vote for him then you are a white supremacist too. There is not a doubt in my mind that these people believe their own bullshit. Further, there are already the seeds being planted in preparation for Trump's reelection of how-once again- this election was stolen and there could be an uprising.

The time for "listening to each other" has passed. I notice that comes at the very end when everything written prior to that line appears to indicate that only one side needs to listen. It passed the day that locally owned businesses were burned to the ground and the looting began. For some of the good folks on this forum, they had a responsibility to do their own research on how the system actually works. That was entirely too much work and it was far easier to allow others to use stats from the 1990s. It was easier not to research some of the non-profits that were rolling out policy.

This will be the second time that I will not be voting for Trump. But, I will not be voting for Biden. The thought of voting for anyone in the Democratic Party makes my skin crawl.

I'm sitting out on the sidelines again as well.

I would vote for Trump, but I just know too much.

Biden is a joke.

Both these monsters are a war mongers, and they are both working with some nasty folks.

Trump hasn't got them out of his administration, and he lies too much about what he has claimed he was going to do, versus what he actually does.

But as far as this "false paradigm" about Trump not caring, and Biden being a uniter? You are right. It is bullshit.

Trump is going out there trying to listen, while Biden is hiding in his basement, using money funneled through ACTBLUE, the Ford foundation, and the corporate media's interlocking directorate, to propagandize the nation into hating each other. It is sick, it is like one of Soros' color revolutions, right here at home.

Biden plans to stay home, testing limits of virtual campaign

Joe Biden has no foreseeable plans to resume in-person campaigning amid a pandemic that is testing whether a national presidential election can be won by a candidate communicating almost entirely from home.

apnews.com

Ben Carson says Trump considering 'national listening tour' to engage with black community

Housing and Urban Development Secretary Dr. Ben Carson told "Bill Hemmer Reports" Wednesday that President Trump is weighing embarking on a "national listening tour" to engage with and hear the concerns of minority communities.

www.foxnews.com

They are warmongers. But, this whole Trump needs to listen is bullshit. It doesn't matter what he says or does. The entire thing is bullshit. This is a political party that feels that they were denied their rightful place on the throne. Since no one is buying into their let"s support USAID bullshit and the corporations and major donors don't want to solve some of the problems they keep their little army going by making them feel like little saints.

What's fantastic is these fuckers still believe that this is controllable chaos. I mean it works in other countries, amiright? And these clowns are capable of recognizing that there are countries that want to exploit weaknesses but not smart enough to recognize it's their own little precious groups that are being exploited? Come on.

I am afraid that they are starting to push regular Democrats out of the DNC.

I just saw one post this today. . .



"I never cared if you were "gay" or whatever acronym you chose to call yourself, until you started shoving it down my throat.

I never cared what color you were, if you were a good human, until you started blaming me for your problems.

I never cared about your political affiliation until you started to condemn me for mine.

I never cared where you were from in this great Republic until you began condemning people based on where they were born and the history that makes them who they are.

I have never cared if you were well off or poor because I've been both. Until you started calling me names for working hard and bettering myself.

I've never cared if your beliefs are different than mine. Until you said my beliefs are wrong.

Now I care. I've given all the tolerance I have to give. This is no longer my problem. It's your problem. You can still fix it. It's not too late. But it will be. Soon.

I'm a very patient person at times. But I'm about out of patience. There are literally millions of people just like me.

We have had enough." - Silent Majority

 

[whitehall]

The fledgling United States tore down symbols of the British monarchy. Only savages, maniacs and anarchists destroy what they built themselves.

 

[whitehall]

Watch out when (mostly) lefties try to justify anarchy by citing the American Revolution. We were at war with the British and there was no Constitution or federal property a sense of law and order for that matter. Only savages who suffer from limited education and have no concept or respect for tradition or history, engage in mob violence including tearing down their own historic statues. It's nothing knew for the democrat party since the late 40's when a former KKK member appointed to the Supreme Court by FDR wrote the majority opinion creating a "separation of church and state" that had no basis in Constitutional law. Who would have thought they would be able to order a landmark Korean War monument bulldozed to rubble because some idiot claimed to be offended by the 30 ft Cross. First they come for your religious symbols and then they take away your history.

 

[Disir]

After Lexington & Concord, did King George rethink his colonial policies, consider easing up on the Coercive Acts or reopening Boston Harbor? Nope. It's not good to harden your position against protesters sometimes; the colonists' attitudes also hardened against the King for his refusal to meet them halfway. Everything went downhill from there.

Trump is following that same playbook, although BLM is keeping its cannons in the garage for the moment--I'm not suggesting we are working up to a shooting war here. But by not listening, by simply dismissing them and talking like they're the "enemy," Trump is hardening the protesters' attitudes toward the government, too. Locally, towns and cities are making changes, so maybe this thing will eventually die down, thanks to cooler heads. But on a national level, he's making the same mistake King George did. A lot of you are. The summer isn't half over. It's going to be a long one, the more people resist listening to each other.

I was scrolling through TikTok last night and there was an older couple with a kid. They say in unison whilst words flash across the screen the following; Trump is a white supremacist and if you vote for him then you are a white supremacist too. There is not a doubt in my mind that these people believe their own bullshit. Further, there are already the seeds being planted in preparation for Trump's reelection of how-once again- this election was stolen and there could be an uprising.

The time for "listening to each other" has passed. I notice that comes at the very end when everything written prior to that line appears to indicate that only one side needs to listen. It passed the day that locally owned businesses were burned to the ground and the looting began. For some of the good folks on this forum, they had a responsibility to do their own research on how the system actually works. That was entirely too much work and it was far easier to allow others to use stats from the 1990s. It was easier not to research some of the non-profits that were rolling out policy.

This will be the second time that I will not be voting for Trump. But, I will not be voting for Biden. The thought of voting for anyone in the Democratic Party makes my skin crawl.

I'm sitting out on the sidelines again as well.

I would vote for Trump, but I just know too much.

Biden is a joke.

Both these monsters are a war mongers, and they are both working with some nasty folks.

Trump hasn't got them out of his administration, and he lies too much about what he has claimed he was going to do, versus what he actually does.

But as far as this "false paradigm" about Trump not caring, and Biden being a uniter? You are right. It is bullshit.

Trump is going out there trying to listen, while Biden is hiding in his basement, using money funneled through ACTBLUE, the Ford foundation, and the corporate media's interlocking directorate, to propagandize the nation into hating each other. It is sick, it is like one of Soros' color revolutions, right here at home.

Biden plans to stay home, testing limits of virtual campaign

Joe Biden has no foreseeable plans to resume in-person campaigning amid a pandemic that is testing whether a national presidential election can be won by a candidate communicating almost entirely from home.

apnews.com

Ben Carson says Trump considering 'national listening tour' to engage with black community

Housing and Urban Development Secretary Dr. Ben Carson told "Bill Hemmer Reports" Wednesday that President Trump is weighing embarking on a "national listening tour" to engage with and hear the concerns of minority communities.

www.foxnews.com

They are warmongers. But, this whole Trump needs to listen is bullshit. It doesn't matter what he says or does. The entire thing is bullshit. This is a political party that feels that they were denied their rightful place on the throne. Since no one is buying into their let"s support USAID bullshit and the corporations and major donors don't want to solve some of the problems they keep their little army going by making them feel like little saints.

What's fantastic is these fuckers still believe that this is controllable chaos. I mean it works in other countries, amiright? And these clowns are capable of recognizing that there are countries that want to exploit weaknesses but not smart enough to recognize it's their own little precious groups that are being exploited? Come on.

I am afraid that they are starting to push regular Democrats out of the DNC.

I just saw one post this today. . .



"I never cared if you were "gay" or whatever acronym you chose to call yourself, until you started shoving it down my throat.

I never cared what color you were, if you were a good human, until you started blaming me for your problems.

I never cared about your political affiliation until you started to condemn me for mine.

I never cared where you were from in this great Republic until you began condemning people based on where they were born and the history that makes them who they are.

I have never cared if you were well off or poor because I've been both. Until you started calling me names for working hard and bettering myself.

I've never cared if your beliefs are different than mine. Until you said my beliefs are wrong.

Now I care. I've given all the tolerance I have to give. This is no longer my problem. It's your problem. You can still fix it. It's not too late. But it will be. Soon.

I'm a very patient person at times. But I'm about out of patience. There are literally millions of people just like me.

We have had enough." - Silent Majority

IDK.......when the "regular Democrats" simply repeat what they hear then they are no longer regular.