Provocateurs at work

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

The official authorities of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) have repeatedly stated that the Ukrainian side is preparing sabotage at chemical plants of the South-East of Ukraine in order to announce that the DPR was using chemical munitions against the Ukrainian troops and population and unleash a big full-scale war in which Russia would be dragged. Actually, this is the goal of Western cryptoneozionist services.

For a time, these statements worked as a "fuse locker" of provocations. However, today the Ministry of State Security of the Donetsk People’s Republic directly pointed out that all signs are there that the provocations will be carried out in the very near future. In particular, this is indicated by the arrival in the Donbass of Western, including American, special services and the notorious "white helmets" which were repeatedly accused of ... staging scenes of the use of chemical weapons against civillians in Syria by the Assad regime”.

There is a certain "division of labor" among the Western instructors - the British military advisers are training the Ukrainian soldiers and planning an offensive on the Gorlovka direction, and the American ones - on Mariupol.

The representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry said that Ukraine is planning provocations using weapons of mass destruction - tanks with ammonia and chlorine, as well as analogues of projectiles, used only by rocket artillery of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics, have been delivered to the troops. The Ukrainian Nazi paramilitary units, disguised as the armed forces of the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics, are going to be used in order to carry out mass executions of civilians to accuse the armed forces of the independent republics of atrocities..

 

[Stratford57]

So true, as a resident of Ukraine I 100% agree.

Dec 17
Sergey Lavrov: We are not at war with the Ukrainian regime, which has all the features of the Nazi and neo-Nazi. The Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine who live in Donbass are fighting it. The Ukrainian people have nothing to do with it. The overwhelming majority, I am sure, wants peace in the country, wants to get rid of this shameful regime and return to normal relations with the Russian Federation.

According to additional information that we tend to believe, in the last ten days of December, President Poroshenko is planning an armed provocation on the border with the Russian Federation – Crimea.

He will get a response. He won’t find it funny, I can assure you.

According to our data, which seem credible, he is advised to maintain low-intensity hostilities to support the ongoing outcry in the propaganda space about “Russians attacking Ukraine” and “Russians need to be further sanctioned,” but in no case should military operations be allowed to reach a phase to elicit a full-blown response. Nasty, petty provocation. Our respective services take all necessary measures to prevent such excesses from happening.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview with Radio Komsomolskaya Pravda, Moscow, December 17, 2018

P.S. You'll see your thread will not get too much attention, nobody cares about genocide of civilians in Donbass which Ukrainian officials have been busy with for the last 5 years. And ... silence from all Human Rights organizations about Ukrainians' actions with 24/7 lies about "Russian aggression in Ukraine" .

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

AF: Thanks for the feedback.

 

[kyzr]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

 

[Kondor3]

The Russians are full of $hit on just about anything pertaining to this long-running confrontation.

How can you be sure they are lying about Ukraine?

Their lips are moving.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So true, as a resident of Ukraine I 100% agree.

Dec 17
Sergey Lavrov: We are not at war with the Ukrainian regime, which has all the features of the Nazi and neo-Nazi. The Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine who live in Donbass are fighting it. The Ukrainian people have nothing to do with it. The overwhelming majority, I am sure, wants peace in the country, wants to get rid of this shameful regime and return to normal relations with the Russian Federation.

According to additional information that we tend to believe, in the last ten days of December, President Poroshenko is planning an armed provocation on the border with the Russian Federation – Crimea.

He will get a response. He won’t find it funny, I can assure you.

According to our data, which seem credible, he is advised to maintain low-intensity hostilities to support the ongoing outcry in the propaganda space about “Russians attacking Ukraine” and “Russians need to be further sanctioned,” but in no case should military operations be allowed to reach a phase to elicit a full-blown response. Nasty, petty provocation. Our respective services take all necessary measures to prevent such excesses from happening.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s interview with Radio Komsomolskaya Pravda, Moscow, December 17, 2018

P.S. You'll see your thread will not get too much attention, nobody cares about genocide of civilians in Donbass which Ukrainian officials have been busy with for the last 5 years. And ... silence from all Human Rights organizations about Ukrainians' actions with 24/7 lies about "Russian aggression in Ukraine" .

Commies saying Nazis are bad...….PRICELESS!!!

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

AF: Alas, there MIGHT be "the dog" - the international kryptoneosionist forces view Ukraine as a strategic base for attacking Russia, rich in natural resources. For the fifth year, these forces are waging a proxi war against Russia in the Donbass. And do not forget about the richest chernozem fields of Ukraine, plus the huge deposits of natural shale gas in the Donbass

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

 

[Stratford57]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 2019

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

="Kondor3, post: 21454240, member: 20204"]The Russians are full of $hit when it comes to Ukraine.

How can you be sure they are lying about Ukraine?

Their lips are moving.

AF: I was born there and keep an eye on the developments. I get info directly from my countrymen.

In general, what happens in the Donbass is a MILITARY conflict between various groups of international cryptoneozionism, including Russian ones. But common Slavic men and women , old people and children are dying over there

 

[kyzr]

="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

AF: Alas, there MIGHT be "the dog" - the international kryptoneosionist forces view Ukraine as a strategic base for attacking Russia, rich in natural resources. For the fifth year, these forces are waging a proxi war against Russia in the Donbass. And do not forget about the richest chernozem fields of Ukraine, plus the huge deposits of natural shale gas in the Donbass

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

If Ukraine gets into NATO there will be more than just US forces to defend it. Until then, they shouldn't do anything stupid.
Ukraine pushes ahead with plans to secure NATO membership

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

="kyzr, post: 21454357, member: 21281"="Alexandre Fedorovski, post: 21454254, member: 67922"]="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

AF: Alas, there MIGHT be "the dog" - the international kryptoneosionist forces view Ukraine as a strategic base for attacking Russia, rich in natural resources. For the fifth year, these forces are waging a proxi war against Russia in the Donbass. And do not forget about the richest chernozem fields of Ukraine, plus the huge deposits of natural shale gas in the Donbass

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

If Ukraine gets into NATO there will be more than just US forces to defend it. Until then, they shouldn't do anything stupid.
Ukraine pushes ahead with plans to secure NATO membership

AF: And this is the behavior in the television studio of the Ukrainian wards of the American and British special services, which spend hundreds of millions of dollars of American taxpayers to support the Ukrainian Nazi regime. The cult of brute force - the basis of the regime in Ukraine

https://.....inform.org/753602?utm_source=push-notification&utm_medium=push-world&utm_campaign=push
Add word novoros
See 3:32

 

[kyzr]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 2019

Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

 

[Stratford57]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 2019

Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

1. I'm from Ukraine and the polls say the majority of Ukrainian citizens do NOT want any NATO but do want to be closer to Russia.
2. I hope NATO is not that nuts to allow crazy Ukraine to join it.

--
NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that,"

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.

"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"

Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

---
Nov, 17, former deputy head of the Main Headquarters of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Igor Romanenko:

It is necessary to sharpen and transfigure the situation into a large-scale war. In this situation, Ukraine will be able to count on the help of the West in diplomatic and economic formats. And if the conflict is aggravated, then we will be more actively helped with weapons - not in the way it is now.

https: //apostrophe.ua/article/society/accidents/2018-11-17/mejdu-ukrainoy-i-rossiey-zagoraetsya-tretiy-ochag-est-opasnost-bolshoy-voynyi/22103

Note: I added a space to the link above because it contains Ukrainian letters which this forum does not allow.

Does NATO need such an ally? Only if they want to start a new war. In other words, with such a "friend" who needs enemies.

 

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

="kyzr, post: 21454417, member: 21281="Stratford57, post: 21454289, member: 49659"="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region
Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 201
Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

AF: Russia cannot deal with its resources. In Ukraine, there is nothing that was not in Russia. And Ukraine, which has become in the four years of the rule of Poroshenko’s cryptoneozionist regime, the poorest country in Europe, one fifth of whose population works in Poland, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland. This is a strategic question for Russia: the flight time of an American missile, launched from the territory of Donbass in the direction of Moscow would be 4-5 minutes .... And the missiles on the hypersound - a minute оr less...

But I will not deny that the population of Ukraine is a huge market for Russian products.

 

[Stratford57]

Alexandre Fedorovski , when you quote somebody, look at your screen: there should be even amount of the words "QUOTE" (same number on the top and on the bottom). Start your writing under the last word "QUOTE" and do NOT change anything inside of the construction which automatically appears on your screen after you quote one or several posts. Otherwise it's hard to read your posts. Good luck.

 

[DOTR]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

No we do not. But the liberals here..make that the (((liberals)...have been pressing for war with Russia for two years now. They never saw a war they didnt like unless it was communists we were fighting but they have a particular hatred for people who wont bow to the globalists. Plus the ethnic hatred between Jews and Slavs is deep and long standing.
In the end I feel like they will get their way. What they did to Ukraine is really not fixable without war and I suppose that was the point all along.

 

[DOTR]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 2019

Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

1. I'm from Ukraine and the polls say the majority of Ukrainian citizens do NOT want any NATO but do want to be closer to Russia.
2. I hope NATO is not that nuts to allow crazy Ukraine to join it.

--
NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that,"

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.

"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"

Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

---
Nov, 17, former deputy head of the Main Headquarters of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Igor Romanenko:

It is necessary to sharpen and transfigure the situation into a large-scale war. In this situation, Ukraine will be able to count on the help of the West in diplomatic and economic formats. And if the conflict is aggravated, then we will be more actively helped with weapons - not in the way it is now.

https: //apostrophe.ua/article/society/accidents/2018-11-17/mejdu-ukrainoy-i-rossiey-zagoraetsya-tretiy-ochag-est-opasnost-bolshoy-voynyi/22103

Note: I added a space to the link above because it contains Ukrainian letters which this forum does not allow.

Does NATO need such an ally? Only if they want to start a new war. In other words, with such a "friend" who needs enemies.

How do you feel about Obama/Kerry/Clinton orchestrating the overthrow of your elected President and starting all this?
Hopefully you wont hold it against the American people..they are trying to do the same thing here to our elected president..

 

[kyzr]

="kyzr, post: 21454417, member: 21281="Stratford57, post: 21454289, member: 49659"="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region
Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 201
Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

AF: Russia cannot deal with its resources. In Ukraine, there is nothing that was not in Russia. And Ukraine, which has become in the four years of the rule of Poroshenko’s cryptoneozionist regime, the poorest country in Europe, one fifth of whose population works in Poland, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland. This is a strategic question for Russia: the flight time of an American missile, launched from the territory of Donbass in the direction of Moscow would be 4-5 minutes .... And the missiles on the hypersound - a minute оr less...

But I will not deny that the population of Ukraine is a huge market for Russian products.

After reading this post and the OP again, I'm not sure what you are trying to debate?? The OP mentions some factions are preparing to use chemical weapons as a pretext to start a conflict. I don't know the regions by name w/o a map, but I assume that two eastern ones are controlled by Russia, and the others by the Ukes. Then you mention sectors with US and sectors with Brits. Your post is anti-Poroshenko, are you in the Uke or Russian sector? The Ukes are buying coal from the US, they make it sound like the Ukes have money. We gave them advanced anti-tank weapons to defend themselves. So do you want to be part of Russia again, based on the huge market for Russian products? Or do you want to get your two occupied ares back? Do you think that Poroshenko's forces can clear those regions of Russians? If not, its like Crimea.

 

[Stratford57]

This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region

Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 2019

Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

1. I'm from Ukraine and the polls say the majority of Ukrainian citizens do NOT want any NATO but do want to be closer to Russia.
2. I hope NATO is not that nuts to allow crazy Ukraine to join it.

--
NTV: Interview with former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: “Ukraine wanted to pull us into the war”

"I think we should not let Ukraine draw us into a war, and Ukraine tried to do that,"

In an interview, published by Tagesspiegel newspaper on Saturday, Gabriel also criticized Kiev’s demands to send warships to the Black Sea and its suggestion to close international ports for Russian vessels traveling from the Sea of Azov.

"Ukraine wollte uns in einen Krieg ziehen"

Former German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel: 'The World Is Changing Dramatically' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

---
Nov, 17, former deputy head of the Main Headquarters of Ukraine, Lieutenant General Igor Romanenko:

It is necessary to sharpen and transfigure the situation into a large-scale war. In this situation, Ukraine will be able to count on the help of the West in diplomatic and economic formats. And if the conflict is aggravated, then we will be more actively helped with weapons - not in the way it is now.

https: //apostrophe.ua/article/society/accidents/2018-11-17/mejdu-ukrainoy-i-rossiey-zagoraetsya-tretiy-ochag-est-opasnost-bolshoy-voynyi/22103

Note: I added a space to the link above because it contains Ukrainian letters which this forum does not allow.

Does NATO need such an ally? Only if they want to start a new war. In other words, with such a "friend" who needs enemies.

How do you feel about Obama/Kerry/Clinton orchestrating the overthrow of your elected President and starting all this?
Hopefully you wont hold it against the American people..they are trying to do the same thing here to our elected president..

I completely agree with you and even posted earlier basically same thing:

Same people are controlling both USA and Ukraine: Deep State and its numerous puppets in US Congress, CIA, FBI. Look how they have been hobbling Trump from doing just about anything to pull USA away from their dirty and bloody Globalist hands.
Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

My Christmas wish is to clean my home country of Ukraine from Nazis and their numerous CIA patrons who have only 2 goals: to hurt Russia and to decrease the population in Ukraine (5 years ago there were 40 millions in Ukraine, now there are close to 34 millions).

Deep State has turned Ukraine into a spear to hurt Russia. And spear must be sharp but must NOT be happy.

P.S. What I can see from the forum American people (the vast majority) know NOTHING about real situation in Ukraine due to lying American Media and basically would never even find Ukraine on the map.

 

[DOTR]

="kyzr, post: 21454417, member: 21281="Stratford57, post: 21454289, member: 49659"="kyzr, post: 21454155, member: 21281"This issue probably falls under "the US is not the world's cop". However, its my understanding that we have about 3,500 troops in Ukraine to keep a lid on things. Since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we really don't have a dog in that fight.

Here’s the US military footprint in the Black Sea region
Take a look at this.

Dec, 22, National Interest:

The world remembered Ukraine when an incident at the passage into the Sea of Azov resulted in shots fired, a ramming and the detention of two Ukrainian patrol vessels. Whether instigated by Russia or Ukraine (and both governments appear to have played some part), the interception reignited tensions in a crisis that has smoldered for the last couple of years. The declaration of martial law by the Ukrainian government suggested the possibility of unrest in Ukraine.

To be sure, Russia seems to lack any interest in disrupting the status quo ahead of the Ukrainian elections, while the Ukrainian government continues to lack the capacity to consequentially change facts on the ground. The upcoming elections will probably not change the basic equation, but could introduce uncertainty. Given the continuing tensions between Russia and the United States, even a small shift could threaten the uneasy balance that has held for the last several years, potentially throwing Eastern Europe into chaos.

5 Places Where World War III Could Start in 201
Thank you for the excellent link to the 5 places WW3 could start. IMHO no one wants to see an all out war between major powers. That is a lose-lose proposition. The problem is keeping opposing forces far enough apart so that a small conflict doesn't escalate rapidly into a regional conflict. Putin doesn't have the cash for a major conflict, maybe he wants some of the natural resources of the Ukraine? IMHO if the Ukraine secures membership in NATO then Putin knows not to trigger any responses that might be more than he expected. Russia is no match for NATO.

AF: Russia cannot deal with its resources. In Ukraine, there is nothing that was not in Russia. And Ukraine, which has become in the four years of the rule of Poroshenko’s cryptoneozionist regime, the poorest country in Europe, one fifth of whose population works in Poland, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland. This is a strategic question for Russia: the flight time of an American missile, launched from the territory of Donbass in the direction of Moscow would be 4-5 minutes .... And the missiles on the hypersound - a minute оr less...

But I will not deny that the population of Ukraine is a huge market for Russian products.

After reading this post and the OP again, I'm not sure what you are trying to debate?? The OP mentions some factions are preparing to use chemical weapons as a pretext to start a conflict. I don't know the regions by name w/o a map, but I assume that two eastern ones are controlled by Russia, and the others by the Ukes. Then you mention sectors with US and sectors with Brits. Your post is anti-Poroshenko, are you in the Uke or Russian sector? The Ukes are buying coal from the US, they make it sound like the Ukes have money. We gave them advanced anti-tank weapons to defend themselves. So do you want to be part of Russia again, based on the huge market for Russian products? Or do you want to get your two occupied ares back? Do you think that Poroshenko's forces can clear those regions of Russians? If not, its like Crimea.

The communists used a trick that their modern descendants in the US and around the world at the levers of power use. Russification
Whats done is done. But when you import a large number of foreigners into a country to pacify the natives you get a constant conflict like this.
It is why liberals the world over..from the EU to Democrats in the US..always insist on open borders. A divided population is much easier to rule.
It is not the fault of the Russians in the Ukraine. They were born there. But it means they will never be unified. A multi-ethnic state has three choices only. (1) divide itself peacefully or violently (2) federate or confederate or (3) impose order with an iron fist as part of an empire.