Proggress on Cold Fusion/LENR

[JimBowie1958]

Nebraska Engineer

Defkalion, the Greek company that was at one time working with Rossi and his e-cat, has developed their own version of LENR power generation product. They will have 7 different scientific groups coming in to perform tests on the product in the upcoming weeks. They intend to enter production with the products within the year. These will be 5KW to 45KW units, suitable to be used in a home or building....

In the academic / scientific space, MIT recently held a LENR seminar and demonstration: Cold Fusion Being Studied at MIT | E-Cat = Rossi Cold Fusion

And now CERN, the famous European physics research facility has announced a LENR seminar / discussion: Physicists Meet at CERN to Discuss Progress Made on Cold Fusion

All in all, progress continues. It is no longer career suicide to mention LENR / Cold Fusion research among scientists. So now that the thaw of the intellectual ice age has begun, LENR continues to approach commercial usefulness, and somewhat behind this, at least a beginning is being made to try and understand what exactly the phenomenon is that is being demonstrated.

This will hugely impact EVERYTHING, from space exploration to geopolitics to medicine and human longevity.

 

[FA_Q2]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

 

[Mr. H.]

But, will it hugely impact Greece's debt crisis?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

But, will it hugely impact Greece's debt crisis?

Not fast enough to keep Greece from dragging the EMU over the economic cliff.

 

[FA_Q2]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

From what little information I can get, it seems that these experiments are not done with any actual openness as to the exact contents of the device or any real explanation of how or why they are operating. That would lead me to believe that it is a gimmick and likely chemical, not nuclear. Admittedly, what I was looking at was specific to the cat and a little dated (mid 2011). Is there better, more open testing being done?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

From what little information I can get, it seems that these experiments are not done with any actual openness as to the exact contents of the device or any real explanation of how or why they are operating. That would lead me to believe that it is a gimmick and likely chemical, not nuclear. Admittedly, what I was looking at was specific to the cat and a little dated (mid 2011). Is there better, more open testing being done?

The MIT demo is totally open and part of a class there.

And while Rossi is engaging in some secrecy and is guilty of some sloppiness for a bonafide experiment meant to pass peer review, he is trying to make a buck, not prove anything scientifically and the energy output and density of his results overwhelm his lack of tight tolerances and/or stored chemicals. He is deomnstrating some kind of nuclear fusion of some sort, apparently.

He claims he will gain his validation through sales of his e-cat, but if he fails that will be seen as another black eye for LENR.

But even with that black eye, the technology is clearly legit and the only question is how awesome and how soon it will be before we see it become ubiquitous.

 

[konradv]

If it works, it would be awesome. Cheap energy would help us in so many ways. Not the least of those ways would be to raise standards of living around the world. Comfortable, contented people are less likely to think about going to war, a boon to all of humankind.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

From what little information I can get, it seems that these experiments are not done with any actual openness as to the exact contents of the device or any real explanation of how or why they are operating. That would lead me to believe that it is a gimmick and likely chemical, not nuclear. Admittedly, what I was looking at was specific to the cat and a little dated (mid 2011). Is there better, more open testing being done?

The MIT demo is totally open and part of a class there.

And while Rossi is engaging in some secrecy and is guilty of some sloppiness for a bonafide experiment meant to pass peer review, he is trying to make a buck, not prove anything scientifically and the energy output and density of his results overwhelm his lack of tight tolerances and/or stored chemicals. He is deomnstrating some kind of nuclear fusion of some sort, apparently.

He claims he will gain his validation through sales of his e-cat, but if he fails that will be seen as another black eye for LENR.

But even with that black eye, the technology is clearly legit and the only question is how awesome and how soon it will be before we see it become ubiquitous.

Rossi's work is deliberately secretive/vague. The problem regarding this technology is it falls too closely to already patent ideas/formulas. He can not patent his work and was trying to get patent. What is ocurring has not been explained and there is a very real black sheep in the scientific community regarding this. Hopefully someone, probably independent from any govt. agency or scientific authority, will eventually identify the phenom and hopefully get it peer passed. Form a first hand knowledge, this does work. It's just not predictable yet and results vary and are hard to replicate over and over.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Rossi's work is deliberately secretive/vague. The problem regarding this technology is it falls too closely to already patent ideas/formulas. He can not patent his work and was trying to get patent. What is ocurring has not been explained and there is a very real black sheep in the scientific community regarding this. Hopefully someone, probably independent from any govt. agency or scientific authority, will eventually identify the phenom and hopefully get it peer passed. Form a first hand knowledge, this does work. It's just not predictable yet and results vary and are hard to replicate over and over.

There are about a dozen possible theories but none are proven and toomany not disproven.

It's sort of a take your pick what yo want to guess kind of thing, IMO.

The undoubted facts are that energy is being produced somehow.

What isnt known is if Dekaflon and Rossi are honest or scammers. In their defense they dont seem to be collecting any cash for all this. At least not yet.

Maybe what they are doing will work, maybe it wont, but there is no rational doubt about LENR any more, IMO.

 

[stans]

A NASA scientist is filing a patent for a Low Energy Nuclear Device (Not necessarily a low temperature device) but there's little in the patent other than the claims. This is from the MIT link. Revolutionary if something comes of it.

 

[stans]

Of course Exxon-Mobil will scramble to buy it and put the process in a secure safe.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Of course Exxon-Mobil will scramble to buy it and put the process in a secure safe.

I dont think so, since too many countries outside the US are moving to use this technology.

 

[Middleoftheroad]

Fake. Said it before and I'll say it again. I'm about 99% positive it is fake. Just another scam.
Truth is the scientific community is completely ignoring it. Most haven't even heard of it. The only reason I have heard of it is from this message board. Im guessing inside of this machine is a pre-charged battery.
This first link from this thread was a horrible link. First its form a website called energycatalyzer.com What is it promoting? Energy catalyzers (e-cat for short). Why not go to JimmyCarterWasTheBestPrez.com and ask if Jimmy Carter was a good prez? The link goes on to say that they don't know of any involvement between the guy that ran the 7 day course and the company making these machines. Then how did he get one? He managed to get a machine that no one else in the world can get, is not for sale, and is under such tight security that they wont even say how it works or what is involved. A machine that, as the only working model in the public, would literally be worth millions, if not billions, to the right corporation.
That's right, he walked into a lecture with a potentially billion dollar machine in his hands and no one thought twice about it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Fake. Said it before and I'll say it again. I'm about 99% positive it is fake. Just another scam.

You dont know two facts about this technology and you declare it a fake? lolol

Truth is the scientific community is completely ignoring it. Most haven't even heard of it.

DARPA, NASA, DoE, Bushnell, MIT, Swedish Royal Physics society, the Italian Physics society and moore have explored LENR technology and say there is some real potential to it and it is valid.


But I guess you know more because......????

The only reason I have heard of it is from this message board.

Wow, so you not knowing of it couldnt possibly mean that you are ignorant on the topic; it must mean it doesnt really exist!

lol

Im guessing inside of this machine is a pre-charged battery.

It is impossible for a battery that would fit in that box to provide enough heat to warm 2 tons of water by 5 degrees centigrade which is what Rossi has done with his e-cat.

And what of Bushnell at NASA? They are hiding batteries too? So is MIT?

This first link from this thread was a horrible link. First its form a website called energycatalyzer.com What is it promoting? Energy catalyzers (e-cat for short).

Yeah, that is sure sign that they must be lying because they are so convinced it is real they named their site after the invention, lolol. Rossi must be paying them to run that thing. ROFLMAO.

The link goes on to say that they don't know of any involvement between the guy that ran the 7 day course and the company making these machines. Then how did he get one? He managed to get a machine that no one else in the world can get, is not for sale, and is under such tight security that they wont even say how it works or what is involved. A machine that, as the only working model in the public, would literally be worth millions, if not billions, to the right corporation.
That's right, he walked into a lecture with a potentially billion dollar machine in his hands and no one thought twice about it.

The guy at MIT MADE HIS OWN MACHINE, DUDE!


ROFLMMFAO!


lol, you just cant make this shit up! lololololol

 

[Middleoftheroad]

You dont know two facts about this technology and you declare it a fake? lolol

Exactly, because that is NOT how science is done. As a rule in science, if someone refuses peer review, its because they are lying. NO exceptions. They can make excuses all they want, but no one cares.

DARPA, NASA, DoE, Bushnell, MIT, Swedish Royal Physics society, the Italian Physics society and moore have explored LENR technology and say there is some real potential to it and it is valid.


But I guess you know more because......????

Nasa's position
Cold Fusion: NASA Says Nothing Useful - Forbes

Their spokesman

In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I find a distinct absence of the latter. So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.

DoE
$29.5 Billion requested by DoE; $0 for cold fusion « Cold Fusion Now

Swedish Royal Physics Society
Never heard of them. Either has google, wikipedia or bing.
Do I really need to go on?

Wow, so you not knowing of it couldnt possibly mean that you are ignorant on the topic; it must mean it doesnt really exist!

Fine go here and ask them. Most of the poster's on this forum are physicists or students.
Physics Help and Math Help - Physics Forums
Here's a thread you might find interesting.
Tabletop Cold Fusion Reactor
Suggest it, and get laughed off the board like the last person did. Apparently only 14 year old girls believe it.

The guy at MIT MADE HIS OWN MACHINE, DUDE!l

Not according to YOUR article he didn't

The course included the demonstration of an LENR device built by a company called Jet Energy Inc.

The MIT course consisted of the demonstration and five days of presentations by Professor Hagelstein who explained his cold fusion theories. Hagelstein is a long time LENR proponent who is part of Cold Fusion Energy Inc, a consortium of scientists dedicated to commercializing cold fusion. It is not known whether there is a connection between that group and Jet Energy Inc.

 

[IanC]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

there are quite a few reasons to be doubtful. lack of mechanism to explain it would be the first and foremost

 

[JimBowie1958]

Very interesting but is it real is the question....

I dontthink there is reasonable doubt on LENR any more, though I dont think it has necesarily been proven to occur yet. MIT's experiment went twoweeks so far and is giving a COP of 10 to 14 times energy input though its at small current levels.

I dont know about Rossi's e-cat yet or Dekaflon, but I think there is a lot of ground to be hopeful. There is no reason to believe it is not legit.

there are quite a few reasons to be doubtful. lack of mechanism to explain it would be the first and foremost

There are several actually that seem to make sense, but who knows if they are true?

We have essentially the problem of over-coming the Coluomb barrier, IIRC, and the Hydrogen atom (of one electron and one proton )is being condensed into a tight volume that masks the overall positive charge and makes it 'look' like a Neutron. This is similar to muon fusion which has been known about since the 1950's, ehre the heavier meson causes the condensing of the hydrogen and it slips in masked in a similar way.

Getting Neutrons into atoms is not that big a deal, especially with some elements like tin, so if this 'disguise' actually happens then its no more difficult than putting a neutron into the nickel atom. The nickel then decays into various things like copper or iron depending on how many hydrogens get absorbed, releasing one or more electrons, and yeilding energy.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You dont know two facts about this technology and you declare it a fake? lolol

Exactly, because that is NOT how science is done.

Yeah, science is not done with facts...go figure.

As a rule in science, if someone refuses peer review, its because they are lying. NO exceptions. They can make excuses all they want, but no one cares.

lol, no one cares? You mean other than about five government groups and several major universities to include MIT?

lol, you really got to get over yourself; you do not speak for anyone but yourself, Sherlock.

DARPA, NASA, DoE, Bushnell, MIT, Swedish Royal Physics society, the Italian Physics society and moore have explored LENR technology and say there is some real potential to it and it is valid.


But I guess you know more because......????

Nasa's position
Cold Fusion: NASA Says Nothing Useful - Forbes

Their spokesman

Bushnell and others at NASA have shown keen interest in LENR technology, and so far no one has made anything useful with it as far as the market shows. Rossi, who may be the closest to getting something to market is still at least a year away from doing so.

So, big whooping deal, Einstein, you have pointed out what anyone else can see.

But that does not mean that there is no potential and several NASA scientists and many others have said that potential is a fact, not speculation from fools who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground.

DoE
$29.5 Billion requested by DoE; $0 for cold fusion « Cold Fusion Now

Yeah, another awesome discovery by you of things already posted BY ME on this board.

Man, you are on a roll today! lolol

Swedish Royal Physics Society
Never heard of them. Either has google, wikipedia or bing.

I got the name wrong:
Energy Catalyzer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Kungliga Vetenskapsakademien - Home

Do I really need to go on?

Go on? With what? What reason or facts have you given yet? None, other than you couldnt track down which Swedish science society had been involved in Rossi demonstrations?

Ad hominem in the form of spreading rumor and repeatedly stating that you think it is not legit is all you have done. But you have given no reason and no facts.

Fine go here and ask them. Most of the poster's on this forum are physicists or students.
Physics Help and Math Help - Physics Forums
Here's a thread you might find interesting.
Tabletop Cold Fusion Reactor
Suggest it, and get laughed off the board like the last person did. Apparently only 14 year old girls believe it.

More ad hom, but now you also make an appeal to authority.

Science does not work that way, dude. There are plenty of examplesof establishment scientists no believing that major disruptive technology was possible even years after it was proven, such as the Wright borthers and their flights at Kitty Hawk.

Not according to YOUR article he didn't

The course included the demonstration of an LENR device built by a company called Jet Energy Inc.

The MIT course consisted of the demonstration and five days of presentations by Professor Hagelstein who explained his cold fusion theories. Hagelstein is a long time LENR proponent who is part of Cold Fusion Energy Inc, a consortium of scientists dedicated to commercializing cold fusion. It is not known whether there is a connection between that group and Jet Energy Inc.

Lol, what the hell are you talking about?

The MIT demonstration/test did not use a Rossi e-cat!

ROFLMAO, you are really dense on this topic, apparently.

Have you even read what kind of LENR device was used at the MIT test?

lolololol

Here, maybe these articles can help you.

http://www.opednews.com/populum/pag...-steve-windisch-120202-446.html#startcomments

http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/successful-cold-fusionlanr-demonstration-at-mit-again/

 

[uscitizen]

Progress?

That sounds so progressive.