Problem solved

[Esmeralda]

That is very Orwellian of you

I remember that scene in 1984. Where a reasonable concern by a store owner resulted in a thoughtful investigation by police. What page was that on?

Or was it Animal Farm.... when the police stopped by to speak with someone for a few minutes and then observe their behavior... how dare they!!

I don't think this was in either book.

 

[hazlnut]

Explain specifically how anything I suggested is an "end run"...

Credible reports of serious mental illness...

Sharing of trade data?

The sharing of AIDS infectors isn't allowed, but you want to share data of people with mental problems.

HIPPA laws are important. But there needs to be a balance. Also, sharing info with police doesn't make it public.

People who work with children in CA and other states are required by law to report child abuse -- bruises, statements by the child, etc. At which time a social worker and police visit the home and look into it. Is this perfect, NO. Have millions of children been rescued from horrible situations. YES.

If a health care professional or teacher observes disturbing behavior and threats, when the police investigate, why aren't they allowed to temporarily remove guns IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MEANT. Why are police not allowed to take preventative measures?

I believe one reason is because more that 60% of gun deaths are suicides and our society cynically sees this as "victimless" or a choice. Suicide happens when Major Depression or PTSD goes untreated. People who take anti-dresspents or anti-psychotics are not dangerous, when they take their meds and get needed therapy. However, when they stop therapy, go off meds--THEIR CHOICE-- if their behavior poses an obvious risk, then why don't we, as a compassionate society, intervene?

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

WILL? What do you know about suicidal ideology on a brain chemistry level? Has very little to do with Will.

 

[martybegan]

His parents were dead...mom died just recently. What's your Plan B?

Yes. There is no way to stop people like this kid from slipping through the cracks. His mother was likely the one thing keeping him from losing his shit and going postal.

It is too hard to patrol and take preemptive measures on things like this. Anyone could snap.

That's why #ShootBack is the only real solution short of infringing on rights and disarming the people. We will NEVER stand for disarming, so shoot back.

The only real and sane solution is to get rid of guns. The US is not a sane society.

Good luck with that. Let the government give up theirs first.

 

[whitehall]

Before lefties start meddling with litigation and product liability they should show that their concern isn't based on politics. The sad tragic incident in Florida was almost a daily occurrence in Mexico after the U.S. government shipped over 3,000 weapons to Mexican drug cartels. So far at least one American Border Patrol officer was killed with one of the weapons. Strangely enough nobody was even fired much less prosecuted for the insanity. Lefties need to show their concern by demanding that Obama officials be indicted for manslaughter in the death of the Border Patrol Officer before they get involved in product liability.

 

[hazlnut]

Any firearm purchases should be 100% private, and/or ownership to be 100% private it’s no one’s business but the owners… Then nanny state can not be trusted.

Then you're definitely in the wrong country.

As our supreme court, the final word on the law of the land, says different.

If you don't like it, you can leave.


Seriously people, if you don't like how SCOTUS has interpreted the 2nd amendment and clearly defined reasonable exceptions and limits, then **** off. That's the law. You don't like it, too bad.

 

[Defiant1]

The sharing of AIDS infectors isn't allowed, but you want to share data of people with mental problems.

HIPPA laws are important. But there needs to be a balance. Also, sharing info with police doesn't make it public.

People who work with children in CA and other states are required by law to report child abuse -- bruises, statements by the child, etc. At which time a social worker and police visit the home and look into it. Is this perfect, NO. Have millions of children been rescued from horrible situations. YES.

If a health care professional or teacher observes disturbing behavior and threats, when the police investigate, why aren't they allowed to temporarily remove guns IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MEANT. Why are police not allowed to take preventative measures?

I believe one reason is because more that 60% of gun deaths are suicides and our society cynically sees this as "victimless" or a choice. Suicide happens when Major Depression or PTSD goes untreated. People who take anti-dresspents or anti-psychotics are not dangerous, when they take their meds and get needed therapy. However, when they stop therapy, go off meds--THEIR CHOICE-- if their behavior poses an obvious risk, then why don't we, as a compassionate society, intervene?

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

WILL? What do you know about suicidal ideology on a brain chemistry level? Has very little to do with Will.

Brain chemistry.....Liberals have an excuse for everything.

 

[hazlnut]

Before lefties start meddling with litigation and product liability they should show that their concern isn't based on politics. The sad tragic incident in Florida was almost a daily occurrence in Mexico after the U.S. government shipped over 3,000 weapons to Mexican drug cartels. So far at least one American Border Patrol officer was killed with one of the weapons. Strangely enough nobody was even fired much less prosecuted for the insanity. Lefties need to show their concern by demanding that Obama officials be indicted for manslaughter in the death of the Border Patrol Officer before they get involved in product liability.

That program was started under Bush.

Sorry. Facts are stubborn.

 

[westwall]

Repeal state and federal laws shielding gun manufacturers from product liability? Let juries in these communities sort out what a modified AR-15 is for. Imagine that, a company has to take responsibility
for a product doing what it was designed to do.


Let the ATF share trace data with local law enforcement and the CDC. You know, let everybody see the evidence and talk about better enforcement guidelines.


Lower the mental illness standard from adjudicated to diagnosed. (as it is in several states) Let psychiatrists report credible diagnosis to police who respond appropriately, removing weapons.



Let's have a gun grab -- from felons, wife beaters, and seriously mentally ill people. Everyone else, enjoy your hobby, I do.




The above are all reasonable statements, ideas for discussion. However, watch the mouth foaming that follows.....


Facebook could easily write an algorithm that would have flagged the Florida shooter. They could have forwarded the EVIDENCE of serious mental derangement to local police and SAVED LIVES.

Don't forget to do the same for car makers too. After all, you can't have a drunk driver kill people without the car. That way, after all the car companies have gone belly up, you can walk. Seems like you need some exercise because your brain doesn't seem to be working too good.

 

[Papageorgio]

I know your intentions are good but the Facebook idea is the scariest idea I have seen to date.

If you own a Sandwich shop and every Thursday a customer comes in and is overheard saying really disturbing things, showing you his gun, talking about "doing something big"... and you call the police to report your concerns... why is that scary?

It would cost facebook some money to hire people to make sure it's done in manner that is effective and not opening them up to liability, but passing on information to law enforcement about a person who meets REASONABLE CRITERIA of concern... if they save a life, isn't it worth the extra expense.

Let me amend myself - the overall business policy and implementation would be complicated and expensive. Writing the code to flag people for review would be easy.

Ever try to load a video with copyrighted music onto facebook. They can flag that in a minute... pretty sure they can flag people showing off guns and using language or phrases indicating a threat... hiring staff to review the posts and coming up with a criteria for responsible reporting in the interest of public safety... expensive yes... worth doing?

Why is this hard? Oh right, they'll lose a few customers when it gets out... Darn, our profits might dip...

If it was about shopping trends, I have no issue. It is about policing, monitoring private citizens a huge potential for abuse of power. First off you have a private sector company determining what information they send to the government to use potentially harass a citizen that has not committed a crime. It is a big brother is watching tactic. I admit I am not that up on Facebook and nor do I intend to join as I see Facebook as intrusive to begin with.

Do you really want private companies monitoring our lives to then tattle to the government?

Not sure I want to go there, I value my freedom.

 

[Papageorgio]

Before lefties start meddling with litigation and product liability they should show that their concern isn't based on politics. The sad tragic incident in Florida was almost a daily occurrence in Mexico after the U.S. government shipped over 3,000 weapons to Mexican drug cartels. So far at least one American Border Patrol officer was killed with one of the weapons. Strangely enough nobody was even fired much less prosecuted for the insanity. Lefties need to show their concern by demanding that Obama officials be indicted for manslaughter in the death of the Border Patrol Officer before they get involved in product liability.

That program was started under Bush.

Sorry. Facts are stubborn.

Absolutely wrong, it was a different program with different operations and different objectives.

Sorry but like you said, facts are stubborn.

Barack Obama said 'Fast and Furious' began under the Bush administration

 

[Dragonlady]

Explain specifically how anything I suggested is an "end run"...

Credible reports of serious mental illness...

Sharing of trade data?

The sharing of AIDS infectors isn't allowed, but you want to share data of people with mental problems.

HIPPA laws are important. But there needs to be a balance. Also, sharing info with police doesn't make it public.

People who work with children in CA and other states are required by law to report child abuse -- bruises, statements by the child, etc. At which time a social worker and police visit the home and look into it. Is this perfect, NO. Have millions of children been rescued from horrible situations. YES.

If a health care professional or teacher observes disturbing behavior and threats, when the police investigate, why aren't they allowed to temporarily remove guns IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MEANT. Why are police not allowed to take preventative measures?

I believe one reason is because more that 60% of gun deaths are suicides and our society cynically sees this as "victimless" or a choice. Suicide happens when Major Depression or PTSD goes untreated. People who take anti-dresspents or anti-psychotics are not dangerous, when they take their meds and get needed therapy. However, when they stop therapy, go off meds--THEIR CHOICE-- if their behavior poses an obvious risk, then why don't we, as a compassionate society, intervene?

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Often, mental illness, such as depression, is involved.

Your comment shows how utterly ignorant of human reality you truly are.

 

[hazlnut]

HIPPA laws are important. But there needs to be a balance. Also, sharing info with police doesn't make it public.

People who work with children in CA and other states are required by law to report child abuse -- bruises, statements by the child, etc. At which time a social worker and police visit the home and look into it. Is this perfect, NO. Have millions of children been rescued from horrible situations. YES.

If a health care professional or teacher observes disturbing behavior and threats, when the police investigate, why aren't they allowed to temporarily remove guns IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MEANT. Why are police not allowed to take preventative measures?

I believe one reason is because more that 60% of gun deaths are suicides and our society cynically sees this as "victimless" or a choice. Suicide happens when Major Depression or PTSD goes untreated. People who take anti-dresspents or anti-psychotics are not dangerous, when they take their meds and get needed therapy. However, when they stop therapy, go off meds--THEIR CHOICE-- if their behavior poses an obvious risk, then why don't we, as a compassionate society, intervene?

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

WILL? What do you know about suicidal ideology on a brain chemistry level? Has very little to do with Will.

Brain chemistry.....Liberals have an excuse for everything.

Everything's a matter

Repeal state and federal laws shielding gun manufacturers from product liability? Let juries in these communities sort out what a modified AR-15 is for. Imagine that, a company has to take responsibility
for a product doing what it was designed to do.


Let the ATF share trace data with local law enforcement and the CDC. You know, let everybody see the evidence and talk about better enforcement guidelines.


Lower the mental illness standard from adjudicated to diagnosed. (as it is in several states) Let psychiatrists report credible diagnosis to police who respond appropriately, removing weapons.



Let's have a gun grab -- from felons, wife beaters, and seriously mentally ill people. Everyone else, enjoy your hobby, I do.




The above are all reasonable statements, ideas for discussion. However, watch the mouth foaming that follows.....


Facebook could easily write an algorithm that would have flagged the Florida shooter. They could have forwarded the EVIDENCE of serious mental derangement to local police and SAVED LIVES.

Don't forget to do the same for car makers too. After all, you can't have a drunk driver kill people without the car. That way, after all the car companies have gone belly up, you can walk. Seems like you need some exercise because your brain doesn't seem to be working too good.

Which laws shield automakers from liability? Please be specific.

Also, in your analogy, cars apparently come with a fully stocked bar and a bartender willing to let you drive home. Does he realize he's in the car with you?

 

[jasonnfree]

My entire country is a “gun free zone”. Only cops and crooks have guns.

Only the USA lets anyone who wants a gun to buy an AR15. 35,000 people a year die by gun violence in the US every year.

Semi-automatic weapons and 2nd Amendment have become the American suicide pact.

You're welcome, by the way.

I'll explain.

The U.S. has the most powerful military the world has ever known. That military likely protects your country. The people controlling our military have the power to do REALLY horrible things. We, the people, keep those people in check by the threat of armed rebellion.

Because we, the people are armed,, your country is allowed to exist without being overrun by warlords.

Again, you're welcome.

If you think we (citizens) pose any threat of armed rebellion, you're nuts.

Our economy is consumer driven and our Government functions on tax revenue. A military state type gun grab would destroy both-- the U.S. Government has no interest in ruining its own economy and tax base.

The majority of the Military and Cops have a like mindset.
If it ever comes to armed rebellion you can bet they'll be leading the charge.

What charge?

Do you have a problem with the english language?

Well you're actually not very clear about whose side the military and cops will take.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You're welcome, by the way.

I'll explain.

The U.S. has the most powerful military the world has ever known. That military likely protects your country. The people controlling our military have the power to do REALLY horrible things. We, the people, keep those people in check by the threat of armed rebellion.

Because we, the people are armed,, your country is allowed to exist without being overrun by warlords.

Again, you're welcome.

If you think we (citizens) pose any threat of armed rebellion, you're nuts.

Our economy is consumer driven and our Government functions on tax revenue. A military state type gun grab would destroy both-- the U.S. Government has no interest in ruining its own economy and tax base.

The majority of the Military and Cops have a like mindset.
If it ever comes to armed rebellion you can bet they'll be leading the charge.

What charge?

Do you have a problem with the english language?

Well you're actually not very clear about whose side the military and cops will take.

I think thats a foregone conclusion and it needs no clarification.

 

[Defiant1]

The sharing of AIDS infectors isn't allowed, but you want to share data of people with mental problems.

HIPPA laws are important. But there needs to be a balance. Also, sharing info with police doesn't make it public.

People who work with children in CA and other states are required by law to report child abuse -- bruises, statements by the child, etc. At which time a social worker and police visit the home and look into it. Is this perfect, NO. Have millions of children been rescued from horrible situations. YES.

If a health care professional or teacher observes disturbing behavior and threats, when the police investigate, why aren't they allowed to temporarily remove guns IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MEANT. Why are police not allowed to take preventative measures?

I believe one reason is because more that 60% of gun deaths are suicides and our society cynically sees this as "victimless" or a choice. Suicide happens when Major Depression or PTSD goes untreated. People who take anti-dresspents or anti-psychotics are not dangerous, when they take their meds and get needed therapy. However, when they stop therapy, go off meds--THEIR CHOICE-- if their behavior poses an obvious risk, then why don't we, as a compassionate society, intervene?

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Often, mental illness, such as depression, is involved.

Your comment shows how utterly ignorant of human reality you truly are.

So you don't believe a person can come to an objective conclusion that enough is enough?

 

[sartre play]

Do you think this new social wave of hate your fellow American because he has a different political view. could be having an influence on people who are not to tightly rapped?

 

[jasonnfree]

If you think we (citizens) pose any threat of armed rebellion, you're nuts.

Our economy is consumer driven and our Government functions on tax revenue. A military state type gun grab would destroy both-- the U.S. Government has no interest in ruining its own economy and tax base.

The majority of the Military and Cops have a like mindset.
If it ever comes to armed rebellion you can bet they'll be leading the charge.

What charge?

Do you have a problem with the english language?

Well you're actually not very clear about whose side the military and cops will take.

I think thats a foregone conclusion and it needs no clarification.

So a no answer is an answer in your book it looks like. This is what we're worried about. Nut jobs like yourself being allowed to own firearms.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The majority of the Military and Cops have a like mindset.
If it ever comes to armed rebellion you can bet they'll be leading the charge.

What charge?

Do you have a problem with the english language?

Well you're actually not very clear about whose side the military and cops will take.

I think thats a foregone conclusion and it needs no clarification.

So a no answer is an answer in your book it looks like. This is what we're worried about. Nut jobs like yourself being allowed to own firearms.

So you think cops and military personnel are leftist?

 

[westwall]

You’re a ******* control freak, basically is what you’re saying.
Lumping suicides together with homicides/murder is lying...

Lumping? What are you talking about? I'm just quoting the stat 60% -- if you think I made it up, check it out.

Let me be clear - I do not believe suicides are victimless as family and love ones are devastated.

So people are supposed to stay alive against their will because of "loved" ones and family.

Sounds like slavery.

WILL? What do you know about suicidal ideology on a brain chemistry level? Has very little to do with Will.

Brain chemistry.....Liberals have an excuse for everything.

Everything's a matter

Repeal state and federal laws shielding gun manufacturers from product liability? Let juries in these communities sort out what a modified AR-15 is for. Imagine that, a company has to take responsibility
for a product doing what it was designed to do.


Let the ATF share trace data with local law enforcement and the CDC. You know, let everybody see the evidence and talk about better enforcement guidelines.


Lower the mental illness standard from adjudicated to diagnosed. (as it is in several states) Let psychiatrists report credible diagnosis to police who respond appropriately, removing weapons.



Let's have a gun grab -- from felons, wife beaters, and seriously mentally ill people. Everyone else, enjoy your hobby, I do.




The above are all reasonable statements, ideas for discussion. However, watch the mouth foaming that follows.....


Facebook could easily write an algorithm that would have flagged the Florida shooter. They could have forwarded the EVIDENCE of serious mental derangement to local police and SAVED LIVES.

Don't forget to do the same for car makers too. After all, you can't have a drunk driver kill people without the car. That way, after all the car companies have gone belly up, you can walk. Seems like you need some exercise because your brain doesn't seem to be working too good.

Which laws shield automakers from liability? Please be specific.

Also, in your analogy, cars apparently come with a fully stocked bar and a bartender willing to let you drive home. Does he realize he's in the car with you?

You wish to make a gun manufacturer liable for the criminal misuse of their product. Car makers will be exactly the same target because you can't have a drunk driver without the car.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

My entire country is a “gun free zone”. Only cops and crooks have guns.

Only the USA lets anyone who wants a gun to buy an AR15. 35,000 people a year die by gun violence in the US every year.

Semi-automatic weapons and 2nd Amendment have become the American suicide pact.

You're welcome, by the way.

I'll explain.

The U.S. has the most powerful military the world has ever known. That military likely protects your country. The people controlling our military have the power to do REALLY horrible things. We, the people, keep those people in check by the threat of armed rebellion.

Because we, the people are armed,, your country is allowed to exist without being overrun by warlords.

Again, you're welcome.

Let’s apply some common sense to this total lack of logic on your part.

Yes, you have the most powerful military in the world and they have the most devasting and powerful weapons ever created. The notion that civilians need to be armed to protect themselves from their government, while not entirely without merit, denied the reality that your puny guns aren’t any kind of match for MOAB’s, tanks, smart bombs, and the myriad ways the government has to put down an insurrection.

If you want an example, try David Koresh and the Branch Davidians in Waco. And the government didn’t even break out their big guns for that one.

The idea that an army of civilians armed with handguns and rifles would be able to protect your democracy from the US military is laughable in the extreme.

If you want to protect yourself from your government, the way to do it is through your ballot box. Stop electing people in the pay of corporations and the elite. Elect a government “by the people, of the people, and for the people”, instead of those who serve the elite.

They sure didn't break out their big guns. They just burned innocent women and children to death.