"Pro-life" vs "pro-birth"

[Midnight FM]

There’s a third group…

#3. Anti-Abortion: we don’t really care about the mother or the baby. We are simply in support of forcing every woman who gets pregnant to endure the nine months of consequences for doing so.

There shouldn't be any consequences for doing so. That implies there is something "wrong" for doing so. There isn't. Get out of the Victorian era.

Abstinence is a 100% guaranteed contraceptive.

Doesn't matter. There's no reason people should be abstinent unless they really want to, and most don't. Having sex is so much more fun. Not owning a car is a 100% guarantee of never dying in a car accident, but it's a moot point, because there's certainly no imperative that person die in car accident simply because they choose to own or drive a car.

Consent to sex is consent tonparebthoood for both parties involved.

No it isn't. Unless the sex results in pregnancy and the couple gives birth to the child.

 

[Leo123]

My view is that people in the pro-life camp fall into two categories:

1. Pro-life - These people genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and needs to be protected.

2. Pro-birth - These people don't genuinely believe that an embryo or fetus is a human life, and simply want to encourage women to give birth or to encourage procreation in general. These people are motivated by archaic sentiments regarding women and people in general in regards to who should have children, often with a lack of regard for the circumstances and means which children are potentially born into. Often these people argue that a pregnancy is a "potential life" or "will become a baby" if left to its own devices, but fail to substantiate that it actually "is" a human life from the moment of conception, and paint "abortion" with a broad brush (since an abortion 1 day after conception and 1 day before birth are entirely different things which involve entirely different processes).

If we could distinguish these two camps from one another, and do our best to render the "pro-birth" camp irrelevant, I think that the genuinely pro-life camp would have more credibility, and it would be harder to paint them as just "hating women" or being akin to the Taliban.

An abortion 1 day after conception and and 1 day before birth murders a human life. That potential human being is dead either way by different 'processes.' Pro-life and pro-birth are the same whether or not you think so. The abortion 'process' is still the same, kill life before it gets and chance to develop.

 

[Midnight FM]

An abortion 1 day after conception and and 1 day before birth murders a human life.

Nope.

That potential human being is dead either way by different 'processes.'

Oh, so you're admitting it's just a "potential" human being, not an "actual" one. Now we're getting somewhere.

Pro-life and pro-birth are the same whether or not you think so.

Nope. I already explained this.

The abortion 'process' is still the same, kill life before it gets and chance to develop.

Killing something before it develops into a human being means no human being is being killed.

It would be better for you to abandon your concern for "human life" and advocate abortion, as doing so would be of more benefit to a consumer driven culture. Babies cost money, and many taxpayer-funded services help to support their existence, so allowing the killing of babies would render many of those services unnecessary, and allow people to prioritize spending on consumer products rather than having to waste money on children.

 

[Anathema]

There shouldn't be any consequences for doing so. That implies there is something "wrong" for doing so. There isn't. Get out of the Victorian era.


Doesn't matter. There's no reason people should be abstinent unless they really want to, and most don't. Having sex is so much more fun. Not owning a car is a 100% guarantee of never dying in a car accident, but it's a moot point, because there's certainly no imperative that person die in car accident simply because they choose to own or drive a car.


No it isn't. Unless the sex results in pregnancy and the couple gives birth to the child.

.
Basic morality and values supersedes religion, culture or society. Vaginal intercourse is for procreation, whether it feels good or not. So if you willingly engage in the act and end up creating a new life, you should be responsible to care for that child, one way or another. Make or female. It’s just that simple.

 

[Midnight FM]

Basic morality and values supersedes religion, culture or society. Vaginal intercourse is for procreation

Nope.

whether it feels good or not. So if you willingly engage in the act and end up creating a new life, you should be responsible to care for that child, one way or another. Make or female. It’s just that simple.

And you've failed to substantiate that a zygote is a human life from the moment of conception.

 

[Leo123]

Nope.


Oh, so you're admitting it's just a "potential" human being, not an "actual" one. Now we're getting somewhere.


Nope. I already explained this.


Killing something before it develops into a human being means no human being is being killed.

It would be better for you to abandon your concern for "human life" and advocate abortion, as doing so would be of more benefit to a consumer driven culture. Babies cost money, and many taxpayer-funded services help to support their existence, so allowing the killing of babies would render many of those services unnecessary, and allow people to prioritize spending on consumer products rather than having to waste money on children.

I said human life not human being but you use both terms like there is no difference in order to promote infanticide for personal pleasure. You’re a sick bastard.

 

[Anathema]

Nope.


And you've failed to substantiate that a zygote is a human life from the moment of conception.

I haven’t bothered to try to substantiate anything. I’m not here to prove things to you… just ensure you don’t have the ability to claim you didn’t know any better when your soul gets judged.

 

[Leo123]

Nope.


And you've failed to substantiate that a zygote is a human life from the moment of conception.

All living cells have life. If they come from a human they are human life.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Doesn't matter. There's no reason people should be abstinent

There is no reason not to rely on alternatives to abortion. In other words, there's a pill for that...

 

[Zincwarrior]

There is no reason not to rely on alternatives to abortion. In other words, there's a pill for that...

MAGA legislatures are going after that too.

 

[whitehall]

Now that they lost the argument, the pro-abortion crowd seems to have shifted their position to parsing language. Even democrats agreed that the late term abortion procedure is nothing short of infanticide. Democrats had a shot along with republicans to outlaw the procedure in a bill that Clinton vetoed. Abortion is still legal in most states but lefties never quit whining about how hard it has become to murder the unborn.

 

[Midnight FM]

All living cells have life. If they come from a human they are human life.

Skin cells come from a human. They aren't a human life.

 

[Midnight FM]

Now that they lost the argument, the pro-abortion crowd seems to have shifted their position to parsing language. Even democrats agreed that the late term abortion procedure is nothing short of infanticide. Democrats had a shot along with republicans to outlaw the procedure in a bill that Clinton vetoed. Abortion is still legal in most states but lefties never quit whining about how hard it has become to murder the unborn.

Who's talking about late-term abortion?

I'm merely skeptical that this is a baby:

 

[Midnight FM]

There is no reason not to rely on alternatives to abortion. In other words, there's a pill for that...

There's no reason not to rely on abortion if that suits one's fancy. If a human life isn't at stake, it doesn't matter.

 

[Midnight FM]

I haven’t bothered to try to substantiate anything. I’m not here to prove things to you… just ensure you don’t have the ability to claim you didn’t know any better when your soul gets judged.

As if I would "know" anything from someone who's demonstrated profound ignorance. If I wanted to know something, I'd read a book instead.

 

[Midnight FM]

I said human life not human being but you use both terms like there is no difference in order to promote infanticide for personal pleasure. You’re a sick bastard.

I'll do as I please. There simply isn't any reason to believe this is a baby. I don't even think you do:

If you aren't concerned about the welfare of actual born babies, then you can't pretend to be concerned about a clump of cells which has no brain or human consciousness to speak of. You should support aborting them in the name of individual freedom.

 

[Anathema]

As if I would "know" anything from someone who's demonstrated profound ignorance. If I wanted to know something, I'd read a book instead.

You have been informed of the Right and Wrong of the situation. At some point in the future your Soul will be judged regarding that knowledge and your actions in life. Good luck to you with that.

 

[Midnight FM]

You have been informed of the Right and Wrong of the situation. At some point in the future your Soul will be judged regarding that knowledge and your actions in life. Good luck to you with that.

There's nothing wrong with having sex without desiring procreation. It's not that complicated. Procreation is merely a survivalist function, which is often unnecessary in modern life. You can think of it as sex being repurposed in the service of higher needs on Maslow's hierarchy, as opposed to lower ones such as survival, which were more necessary in ancient times than in modern ones.

The issue is when a human life begins and whether or not it is being taken if one has an abortion. Simply "being against" having sex without procreating, without any actual concern whether or not a human life is at stake, is silly and archaic. If no human life is at stake, then it's no different than using birth control. Most Christians that I know of have no problem with birth control; they only have a problem with abortion because they think it is taking a human life, but, so far, no one has explained to me how something with no brain can be a human life from the moment of conception. I'm still waiting on that one.

 

[The Irish Ram]

There's no reason not to rely on abortion if that suits one's fancy. If a human life isn't at stake, it doesn't matter.

Abortion is an invasive medical procedure, that comes with possible risks such as infection. Or you could swallow a pill...

 

[Leo123]

I'll do as I please. There simply isn't any reason to believe this is a baby. I don't even think you do:

If you aren't concerned about the welfare of actual born babies, then you can't pretend to be concerned about a clump of cells which has no brain or human consciousness to speak of. You should support aborting them in the name of individual freedom.

View attachment 1140166

That you do as you please is more than evident, just stop trying to project twisted 'do as I please' logic onto me and others you seem to hate for no reason. What a loon!!!