Pro-choicers like abortion and wont admit it

SGdsn

Member
Nov 15, 2009
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I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.
 
I think Anti choice people should admitt their real agenda which is to make women third class citizens behind men and children.
 
Like it?


I hear they have abortion parties they enjoy it so much
 
Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?
 
Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?

I think you touched on an important point. I wish more women who regret having an abortion would speak out against it.
 
Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?

I think you touched on an important point. I wish more women who regret having an abortion would speak out against it.
Most women who regret or feel bad about their abortion know it is not their business to tell other people what to do with their body.
 
Most women who regret or feel bad about their abortion know it is not their business to tell other people what to do with their body.

from what i have seen, most women who made the decision feel they made the only decision they could have under the circumstances.... and know it is not the place of others to a) question them; b) try to guilt them after the fact; or c) try to take away that right from others.
 
I've yet to encounter a woman who had an abortion and could be honest with herself and others about what she'd done.
 
I am pro-life.

However, I think only those who profit from the procedure actually like it.

Most women who chose abortion do so because they believe that they have no other choice.

Most people who would not chose abortion for themselves but believe that the government has no right to make the decision for women... well, seeing as how I am for less government interference in our lives, it is hard to argue with that point of view... except that I believe that one aspect of government should be to protect human life, in fact, that should be the most important aspect of government.

I also believe that if those of us who are truly pro-life want to cut the number of abortions we have to realize that most of those who are "pro-choice" want the same thing as we do. If we want to cut the number of abortions we have to quit looking at them as the enemy and focus more on the business of abortion and how to make it less profitable and the alternatives to be more advantageous.

Immie
 
Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?

I think you touched on an important point. I wish more women who regret having an abortion would speak out against it.


Shouldn't it be a womans decision? Whether she regrets it or not?
 
I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. .

I've come to the realization that anti abortionists have a hidden agenda : the imposition of their victorian sexual views on the rest of us.

They never offer the putative mothers to adopt their offsprings. The typical anti-abotionist is old, ugly and not having sex.

.
 
☭proletarian☭;1890249 said:
I've yet to encounter a woman who had an abortion and could be honest with herself and others about what she'd done.

I know of at least one women who has been honest with other's about what she has done . Putting people into boxes, isn't a very good policy.
 
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I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.


I could as well be arguing that 'pro-lifers' are not actually pro-life as they obviously do not give a flying fuck about the potential mother's life and free will - as they do not acknowledge her right to do as she wishes with her body and her life. I could actually go as far as to say that I consider them anti-liberty, anti-personal freedom.

What now? Where does that put us? In the midst of yet another tired abortion debate? Let's just swallow the fact we all have different opinions and our differing opinions should have no impact whatsoever on the lives of those that don't share them. If you are anti-abortion, don't have an abortion. If you don't want that 16-year-old living down the road having abortion, offer her to adopt her baby or pay its way through college.

Howgh.
 
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I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.

Human life just isn't that precious. If it were, we wouldn't send thousand of men and women to die for oil and $, and you right wingers know it too.

Now I value the 18 year old boy much more than a so called "pro lifer" does. I/We wouldn't send them to die for money and oil, like George Bush did.

And you defended that war. What was the reason we invaded again? Certainly not worth the lives lost. Saddam wouldn't have killed as many people that have died as a result of us invading Iraq.

I care more about a baby turtle who's trying to make it to the water and gets snatched up by a bird than I do for my neighbors fetus. I don't give a fuck about a seed in their stomach. She should have the right to abort, just like most of the pro lifers did when they were in highschool or college. Why do you think they are so guilty and hung up over other people having abortions? I don't give a fuck if you get one!!! Get it???

And they would get those abortions again if they were in the same situation. Now that they are not in that situation, they want to judge? Fuck them!

Abortion saves lives. All those potentially HORRIBLE mothers are not rasing our future convicts.

And since conservatives don't like welfare, who's gonna pay for them? Abortion is a necessary evil. And that's why we LOVE abortion.
 
Call me naive but I hardly think the goal of either side is to PROMOTE abortion. There are the scattered few that choose abortion as a means of birth control and I think they belong in the league of murders.

I HOPE (and maybe it's a pipe dream) that for most women the choice to abort would be the ONLY choice they see available for whatever reason at that time. I would imagine it is heartbreaking if not at that moment then later in their life. Even "Jane Roe" turned pro life later in her maturity.

Along with the need for sex education I think our country needs MAJOR reform to the adoption process. When did adoption become the "worst choice" in most unwanted pregnancies? Why is it easier for Americans to adopt abroad than in our own country? Why are irresponsible drug addicts and child abusers repeatedly returned custody of their innocent children?

I think you touched on an important point. I wish more women who regret having an abortion would speak out against it.
Most women who regret or feel bad about their abortion know it is not their business to tell other people what to do with their body.

Don't give me that defensive shit. If they've been through it, they have some wisdom to impart. It's not like they would be dictating to them what they should do with their bodies.
 
I've come to the realization that a lot of people who call themselves pro-choice actually are people who don't have any moral objections to abortion. This isn't a profound point -- I think most people could infer as much -- but it plays into the rhetoric they use.

The common refrain from pro-choicers goes something like this: "I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choice." Perfectly middle-of-the-road, inoffensive to everyone. But when you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense.

First of all, people should understand something: when you give your opinion about abortion in an informal setting, you're not obligated to be even-handed in that way. You can speak on your personal beliefs with relative impunity, and it's really nobody's business that your opinion isn't as yielding as they feel it should be. I think abortion is wrong. I don't care if you believe it's okay. I'm not running for office and the fate of abortion rights isn't hinged on my endorsement. So fuck off. I can say what I want to say. So can you.

HOWEVER, it's important to note that opinion does not accurately portray the current state of abortion politics. There's a federal court case protecting the "right" to abortion. There are two ways to undo that precedence and make abortion something that's totally banned in some states. One is for the Supreme Court to overturn that decision. The other is for Congress to pass a constitutional amendment banning the practice. Notice neither one of those options involves a public vote. So your PC political opinion of what you think of people's rights is nebulous considering there's little chance you'll be apart of upholding or doing away with it.

I never hear pro-choicers speak on the improprieties of abortion. Sure, they'll pay lip service and say stuff like "well, we need better sex education" (which is a total red herring if I've ever heard one) and give other answers that sound like they care, but they don't. If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Pro-choicers just want to play both sides: they don't want to come off as being anti-choice because that's non-PC and abortion advocates have made that about as bad as being a white supremacist, but they also don't want to come off as pro-abortion, because they don't want to seem like they hate children. So they straddle the fence and hope no one notices.

It's always bullshit when people act as if they have no problem putting their personal views aside due to their respect for the rule of law. You could tell gay marriage advocates every day from now on that there's no constitutional right to it, do you think they're going to submit that there isn't? No. They'll still make up some de facto right they think justifies it. The same goes for the pro-pot-legalization crowd. When people truly believe something is right or wrong in their heart, they defend that viewpoint and wont be deterred by the vagaries of law or public opinion.

So I think pro-choice advocates need to come clean about the fact that they have no problem with abortion as a procedure, and all that comes with it. You're not a humanitarian when you support a woman's right to kill her unborn child out of convenience. You're not pro-choice when you never mention how horrible of a procedure you think abortion is, but spend most of your time defending it, diminishing the existence of a fetus, and attacking those who hate the procedure for being anti-woman misogynists; you're pro-abortion.


I could as well be arguing that 'pro-lifers' are not actually pro-life as they obviously do not give a flying fuck about the potential mother's life and free will - as they do not acknowledge her right to do as she wishes with her body and her life. I could actually go as far as to say that I consider them anti-liberty, anti-personal freedom.

What now? Where does that put us? In the midst of yet another tired abortion debate? Let's just swallow the fact we all have different opinions and our differing opinions should have no impact whatsoever on the lives of those that don't share them. If you are anti-abortion, don't have an abortion. If you don't want that 16-year-old living down the road having abortion, offer her to adopt her baby or pay its way through college.

Howgh.

A very very small percentage of the population belongs to the so called moral majority. In fact, they are a minority. A fringe group. They live in those very very red states, like West Virginia and Alabama and Texas.

Those wackos who call the FCC about obsenaties, are a hand full of kooks.

I don't want them or the politicians to decide if a woman does or does not have a child. WTF!!!

Stari Decisis! That means the Supreme Court should honor past decisions on such things as abortion. In other words, Roberts and Alito were two right wing wackos that Bush put on the Supreme Court and Sandra Day O'Conner warned those two to follow Stari Decisis.

Another huge reason why the GOP can not win the White House for another 4 to 8 years. We need to replace the old ones with moderates, not right wing nuts.
 
If you want abortions to actually diminish, you have to start by having an admitted intolerance of it. You can't dilute it with saying you approve of the right to have one if you actually want it to go away. Either you want it to go away, and thus your attitude reflects that, or you don't (or don't care) and your attitude will reflect that, too.

Under that logic I cannot possibly hate a TV show unless I'm campaigning to get it banned.

Why is the concept of 'people have rights to do certain things I abhor' alien to you?
 
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