Pretty sad how little interest in science

[rdean]

No, to be accurate you can just assume that I am posting my own opinion. And I stand by my original opinion that what I called a screed was a screed.

You didn't just present "opinion", which of course should be respected. You also gave what you thought were a couple of "facts":

Interesting that President Bush first funded stem cell research, but placed limits on the source of the embryonic stem cells. It was limited to existing stem cell lines, and adult stem cell funding was not restricted and was supported by President Bush as a more viable means of research. It turns out that adult stem cells have been much more productive than embryonic.

Which I responded to:

In 1973 a moratorium was placed on government funding (which would lead you to believe that government funding was taking place BEFORE 1973) for human embryo research. In 1988 a NIH panel voted 19 to 2 in favor of government funding. (which proves that it was taking place in 1988 before either Bush was president).

That means that NEITHER Bush was "first".

Then your other claim that adult stem cells were "better". Was that also "opinion"?

Links support "opinion" with "facts".

Domestic policy of the George W. Bush administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote: Federal funding for embryonic stem cell research was first approved under President Bill Clinton on January 19, 1999,[13] but no money was to be spent until the guidelines were published. The guidelines were released under Clinton on August 23, 2000.[14] They allowed use of unused frozen embryos. On August 9, 2001, before any funding was granted under these guidelines, Bush announced modifications to the guidelines to allow use of only existing stem cell lines.[15] While Bush claimed that more than 60 embryonic stem cell lines already existed from privately funded research, scientists in 2003 said there were only 11 usable lines, and in 2005 that all lines approved for Federal funding are contaminated and unusable.[16] Adult stem cell funding was not restricted and was supported by President Bush as a more viable means of research

Then your other claim that adult stem cells were "better". Was that also "opinion"?

Links support "opinion" with "facts".

I've heard plenty of news reports since Bush allowed Fed spending. (Updated April 11, 2007)
stemcellresearch.org - Fact Sheet: Adult Stem Cells (72) v. Embryonic Stem Cells (0)

"It turns out that adult stem cells have been much more productive than embryonic."

It's odd that you would use an opinion site with a known agenda as "evidence". I was reading this "recent" piece from "Newsweek" (would you consider "Newsweek" as an opinion site with an agenda):

induced pluripotent stem (iPS) cells have the ability to differentiate into any of 220 kinds of human cells, from neurons to retinal cells to pancreatic cells. Their promise was so great that when President Obama announced last March that he was lifting the ban on the use of federal money for research on human embryonic stem cells, critics on the right were apoplectic: iPS cells, they said, made such a move scientifically unjustified. Even President George W. Bush's bioethics council cited the promise of iPS cells in chastising Obama).

Lanza, the chief scientific officer at Advanced Cell Technology, and colleagues shared the optimism about iPS cells. They were trying to grow various types of cells from the iPS cells. It went fine at first, with the iPS cells differentiating into blood, vascular, and retinal cells as intended, the scientists are reporting today in the journal Stem Cells. But things went south fast. Compared with specialized cells produced from the 25 lines of stem cells derived from embryos, those from the eight populations of iPS cells in the study had significantly higher rates of death through a mechanism called apoptosis (which is basically a suicide program within the cells), higher rates of aging (senescence), and severely lower rates of growth. The retinal cells and blood-vessel cells in particular were about as sprightly as cells ready for a nursing home, and lost their crucial ability to continue dividing.

Why Adult Cells Won't End the Stem-Cell Wars - Newsweek.com

 

[Dr Gregg]

to the op: post an interesting thread or two and see if it goes anywhere?

I have, and pretty much don't get much response.

You have started exactly ZERO science threads.

ZERO.

Why not start some, then decide if people here have interest.

Yes, I have, and maybe one person responded. Just look, even this that went to 5 pages was assholes like you just coming into sling mud.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I have, and pretty much don't get much response.

You have started exactly ZERO science threads.

ZERO.

Why not start some, then decide if people here have interest.

Yes, I have, and maybe one person responded. Just look, even this that went to 5 pages was assholes like you just coming into sling mud.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/search.php?searchid=2122354

Your political threads have gotten some number of responses. Your pharm one, not so much.

You have posted NO actual science threads however, mostly only trolling and baiting. Therefore your conclusion made in the OP is erroneous, and is just more trolling and baiting.

My pointing this out makes me a "asshole" I suppose, in your little thin-skinned world.

 

[American Horse]

"It turns out that adult stem cells have been much more productive than embryonic."

It's odd that you would use an opinion site with a known agenda as "evidence". I was reading this "recent" piece from "Newsweek" (would you consider "Newsweek" as an opinion site with an agenda): [Yes, actually I do, and I stopped my subscription to NW because of that]
Why Adult Cells Won't End the Stem-Cell Wars - Newsweek.com

Please correct me if I am wrong but Induced Pluripotent Stem Cells are not the embryonic stem cells which were so highly prized by the crowd which condemned Bush for limiting them:

Science 21 December 2007:
Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell Lines Derived from Human Somatic Cells

Somatic cell nuclear transfer allows trans-acting factors present in the mammalian oocyte to reprogram somatic cell nuclei to an undifferentiated state. We show that four factors (OCT4, SOX2, NANOG, and LIN28) are sufficient to reprogram human somatic cells to pluripotent stem cells that exhibit the essential characteristics of embryonic stem (ES) cells. These induced pluripotent human stem cells have normal karyotypes, express telomerase activity, express cell surface markers and genes that characterize human ES cells, and maintain the developmental potential to differentiate into advanced derivatives of all three primary germ layers. Such induced pluripotent human cell lines should be useful in the production of new disease models and in drug development, as well as for applications in transplantation medicine, once technical limitations (for example, mutation through viral integration) are eliminated

 

[Dr Gregg]

"It turns out that adult stem cells have been much more productive than embryonic."

It's odd that you would use an opinion site with a known agenda as "evidence". I was reading this "recent" piece from "Newsweek" (would you consider "Newsweek" as an opinion site with an agenda): [Yes, actually I do, and I stopped my subscription to NW because of that]
Why Adult Cells Won't End the Stem-Cell Wars - Newsweek.com

Please correct me if I am wrong but Induced Pluripotent Stem Cells are not the embryonic stem cells which were so highly prized by the crowd which condemned Bush for limiting them:

Science 21 December 2007:
Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell Lines Derived from Human Somatic Cells

Somatic cell nuclear transfer allows trans-acting factors present in the mammalian oocyte to reprogram somatic cell nuclei to an undifferentiated state. We show that four factors (OCT4, SOX2, NANOG, and LIN28) are sufficient to reprogram human somatic cells to pluripotent stem cells that exhibit the essential characteristics of embryonic stem (ES) cells. These induced pluripotent human stem cells have normal karyotypes, express telomerase activity, express cell surface markers and genes that characterize human ES cells, and maintain the developmental potential to differentiate into advanced derivatives of all three primary germ layers. Such induced pluripotent human cell lines should be useful in the production of new disease models and in drug development, as well as for applications in transplantation medicine, once technical limitations (for example, mutation through viral integration) are eliminated

Yeah, the derived adult stem cells have been better results. ES cells tend to form teratoma's in which the differentiate into a bunch of different tissues, so you get a mass of all kinds of cells, including bone. But adult stem cells are more invasive to isolate than just taking from a fertilized embryo.