President Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

[rubberhead]

Please help me with this Maineman, what exactly had he done when he was nominated?

I'm sorry, but I feel that this award is at least a year too early. I'm not saying that either next year or the year after he would not have deserved the recognition, but I truly believe that you are nominated for awards such as this for things that you have done, not things that you say you will do.

I believe that this award, not only cheapens the award itself but anything the President may do in the future regarding world peace.

Immie

yeah, how can obama be a champion of world peace when he is leading two wars?

I have been told you are a conservative and have seen little to dispute that. Would you consider that President Bush was attempting to bring peace to Iraq by building up that nation or do you simply think he was a warmonger?

How about Afghanistan? Was his goal there to bring about peace through strength or was it to kill innocent men, women and children?

If you would consider President Bush's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan as having the ultimate goal peace in the middle east, how can you fault President Obama for using the same methods?

Immie

Consider a president who withdrew all of our fighting men from every foreign post in the world except for our embassies abroad. Imagine the consequences of that. What kind of power vacuum would we see? Not that I'm against this because I think we are currently bankrupting our nation to defend ingrates who, in the absence of the need to defend their own nation, have become socialist democracies. Do you know why we have little assistance from European nations in Afghanistan? Because their bloated governments are too expensive for them to have a military that's worth a damn. If we decline and withdraw as a world hegemon, as Obama seems to be intent on eventuating, there will be a vacuum the likes of which the world has not seen since WW2. That is, the Nazi vacuum, that we hesitantly filled in the interest of peace. Guess who will fill this new vacuum? There are two choices: Russia and China. How do you think they'll do compared to us? If you haven't noticed we're already setting up for this scenario. Dismantling missile defense systems here, cancelling meetings with the Dahlai Lama there. Our record isn't perfect, but the world will be apologizing to us when the PRC or Russia are running things across the pond. It'll almost be worth turning the greatest country in the world into a banana republic just so I can say "I told you so", to uninformed idealistic robama zombies like yourself. Of course, you probably won't live through the transition so I'll have to settle for pissing on your grave instead.

 

[Modbert]

how did it work in West Germany? Wasn't it force on them?

Germany is a very delicate rarity. They had democracy before Hitler, they merely just received it back after Hitler.

 

[elvis]

how did it work in West Germany? Wasn't it force on them?

Germany is a very delicate rarity. They had democracy before Hitler, they merely just received it back after Hitler.

what about Japan? they had never had democracy.

 

[Modbert]

Eh, the seeds of democracy had been in place before Hitler. The Nazi's were just a detour.

You had beat me to it but I didn't see it due to the page change. You are correct.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

All this whinning by the pussies on the right is wonderful.

It's going to be a great eight years.

You are ******* delusional.

 

[Modbert]

what about Japan? they had never had democracy.

It came from within. However, do recall that they do have a Constitutional Monarchy.

 

[elvis]

"The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within," - Mohandas K. Gandhi.

how did it work in West Germany? Wasn't it force on them?

Eh, the seeds of democracy had been in place before Hitler. The Nazi's were just a detour.

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

 

[RadiomanATL]

how did it work in West Germany? Wasn't it force on them?

Eh, the seeds of democracy had been in place before Hitler. The Nazi's were just a detour.

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

I disagree.

The German people wanted it and were ready for it. Too bad those in the East had a to wait a bit longer.

 

[Modbert]

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

Remember, Gandhi was referring to the spirit of Democracy. The spirit of Democracy and actual Democracy are two different things. We can bring Democracy to these countries however the spirit won't be there. Which is why when we leave Afghanistan and Iraq, those Governments will fold like a deck of cards.

 

[elvis]

Eh, the seeds of democracy had been in place before Hitler. The Nazi's were just a detour.

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

I disagree.

The German people wanted it and were ready for it. Too bad those in the East had a to wait a bit longer.

so did they change their minds when hitler committed suicide? he had the Germans' respect until the very end until he committed suicide.

 

[Modbert]

so did they change their minds when hitler committed suicide? he had the Germans' respect until the very end until he committed suicide.

Once they learned Hitler committed suicide supposedly, he lost their respect. They saw him as this great leader who fought to the end. Ironically, if he had gone down being shot at, he would of been turned into a Martyr by many of the German people. Instead, he was a coward.

Although to be quite honest, I don't think the Soviets ever nabbed Hitler. I think he got away and that they didn't want to admit that he slipped through their fingers.

 

[GWV5903]

Yeah ok. I think the way women are being treated there is a function of their culture, not whether Hussein is in power.

Which is exactly my point and what I've been saying here on this board for over a year now.

The battle isn't in the desert wasteland battlegrounds. It's in the classroom. It's in teaching the males of Afghanistan that equality for women is the right thing to do. However, we can't do that since their culture would not allow them such a thing.

As long as their culture is the way it is, women in Afghanistan will never be liberated and always be second class citizens.

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

Remember, Gandhi was referring to the spirit of Democracy. The spirit of Democracy and actual Democracy are two different things. We can bring Democracy to these countries however the spirit won't be there. Which is why when we leave Afghanistan and Iraq, those Governments will fold like a deck of cards.

You are probably correct, that is why we stayed in Germany & Japan, and why we should stay in Iraq & Afghanistan......

 

[RadiomanATL]

Yes it was, but I don't think the democracy was brought about from within in 1945

I disagree.

The German people wanted it and were ready for it. Too bad those in the East had a to wait a bit longer.

so did they change their minds when hitler committed suicide? he had the Germans' respect until the very end until he committed suicide.

No, they pretty much lost it in the middle of the war. '43 and '44 at the latest. But by then it was too late by a long shot. Read some of the accounts of the Germans who lived under Hitler. Quite a few of them wanted the Nazi's out. But since the Nazi's had a, well, pretty direct method of dealing with those who they thought posed a threat they (the people) pretty much just hunkered down and decided to wait it out.

I mean, look at the attempts on Hitler's life by his own staff, and their thoughts on his regime. While possibly not Democratic in nature, they damn sure realized that Hitler was doing more harm to Germany by '43 than actually doing anything to advance Germany. Hell, look how quickly they agreed to an unconditional surrender after he killed himself.

Sure, there are lots of people who went along with Hitler's delusions. Both among the populace and the high command, but there definitely was a rising tide of resentment against the Nazis towards the end of the war.

 

[Modbert]

You are probably correct, that is why we stayed in Germany & Japan, and why we should stay in Iraq & Afghanistan......

Except in Germany and Japan we weren't fighting against an entire culture. In Afghanistan and Iraq we are. Germany had Democracy before Hitler for example too.

Besides, it took two atomic bombs to get Japan to change it's tune. Do you say we should do the same to these two countries?

Germany/Japan and Afghanistan/Iraq are four entirely different situations but comparing the first two to the second two is apples to oranges.

 

[Immanuel]

yeah, how can obama be a champion of world peace when he is leading two wars?

I have been told you are a conservative and have seen little to dispute that. Would you consider that President Bush was attempting to bring peace to Iraq by building up that nation or do you simply think he was a warmonger?

How about Afghanistan? Was his goal there to bring about peace through strength or was it to kill innocent men, women and children?

If you would consider President Bush's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan as having the ultimate goal peace in the middle east, how can you fault President Obama for using the same methods?

Immie

Bush's ultimate goal was not peace in the middle east. it was democracy in the middle east. i wouldn't have given Bush a peace prize either.

Sure it wasn't oil?

/ducks

I thought the goal was to bring about peace... through democracy. But I agree, I would not have given the award to President Bush.

Immie

 

[elvis]

I disagree.

The German people wanted it and were ready for it. Too bad those in the East had a to wait a bit longer.

so did they change their minds when hitler committed suicide? he had the Germans' respect until the very end until he committed suicide.

No, they pretty much lost it in the middle of the war. '43 and '44 at the latest. But by then it was too late by a long shot. Read some of the accounts of the Germans who lived under Hitler. Quite a few of them wanted the Nazi's out. But since the Nazi's had a, well, pretty direct method of dealing with those who they thought posed a threat they (the people) pretty much just hunkered down and decided to wait it out.

I mean, look at the attempts on Hitler's life by his own staff, and their thoughts on his regime. While possibly not Democratic in nature, they damn sure realized that Hitler was doing more harm to Germany by '43 than actually doing anything to advance Germany. Hell, look how quickly they agreed to an unconditional surrender after he killed himself.

Sure, there are lots of people who went along with Hitler's delusions. Both among the populace and the high command, but there definitely was a rising tide of resentment against the Nazis towards the end of the war.

The soldiers on the eastern front were furious when they heard about von Staffenberg's assassination/coup attempt. The plan was to kill Hitler, make peace with the western allies, and continue the slaughter in the east. Maybe there were differences between soldiers and civilians.

 

[RadiomanATL]

so did they change their minds when hitler committed suicide? he had the Germans' respect until the very end until he committed suicide.

Once they learned Hitler committed suicide supposedly, he lost their respect. They saw him as this great leader who fought to the end. Ironically, if he had gone down being shot at, he would of been turned into a Martyr by many of the German people. Instead, he was a coward.

Although to be quite honest, I don't think the Soviets ever nabbed Hitler. I think he got away and that they didn't want to admit that he slipped through their fingers.

I disagree. They lost respect of Hitler much earlier than that. But they feared him and his regime. Their desire to live free did not get a chance to outweigh their fear of him before he killed himself and essentially ended the war. Therefore there was no real active resistance to speak of against the Nazi's within Germany. But I believe if the war had slogged on like WWI did, that eventually an attempt on Hitler's life would have succeeded, and, well....who knows from there.

Getting pretty deep into pure conjecture here. But bottom line is that IMO the German people did want democracy, and were ready for it by the end of the war. It wasn't just a light switch that got thrown when Hitler ate his gun.

 

[Immanuel]

But no, Bush didn't deserve it either. At any point in his life IMO. Clinton probably deserved it more. For both his accomplishments (and attempted accomplishments) while in office and his humanitarian efforts since.

I agree and I wonder if President Clinton has been nominated, if he was nominated this year and since he was clearly more deserving than President Obama by 2/1/9, why he did not get the award rather than President Obama.

Immie

 

[elvis]

I have been told you are a conservative and have seen little to dispute that. Would you consider that President Bush was attempting to bring peace to Iraq by building up that nation or do you simply think he was a warmonger?

How about Afghanistan? Was his goal there to bring about peace through strength or was it to kill innocent men, women and children?

If you would consider President Bush's efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan as having the ultimate goal peace in the middle east, how can you fault President Obama for using the same methods?

Immie

Bush's ultimate goal was not peace in the middle east. it was democracy in the middle east. i wouldn't have given Bush a peace prize either.

Sure it wasn't oil?

/ducks

I thought the goal was to bring about peace... through democracy. But I agree, I would not have given the award to President Bush.

Immie

Bush's goal was peace through democracy. Cheney and others?

 

[Meister]

you thought wrong.

no surprise there. traitor.

Not another mindless obamabot.

by the way....I'm not a republican

are you suggesting that the rules of the nobel prize committee preclue them from looking at any accomplishments of any nominees AFTER I Feb?

If so...please provide a link that supports that suggestion or...alternatively, stfu.

I see you don't comprehend the English language. What I am suggesting is that your a mindless obamabot. Don't try and read between the lines...no need to, it's basic English. Soooo....STFU.