President Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize

[elvis]

Well I thought it was the way you explain yours. Then I just realized you're ignorant to the truth.

Ask women in Afghanistan and Iraq about their so-called rights. Careful though, their husband or male family member right next to them may not like the questions you ask.

I don't understand why anybody wastes their time arguing with this piece of shit.

This is just a guess but...maybe because he makes some sense?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....

That's one of my favorite songs. Rep points for you.

 

[Modbert]

You're talking about undoing a culture that has been present for thousands of years.

No, I'm talking about what needs to be done to win. It can't be done. Which is my point. Which is why we need to leave Afghanistan. There's a reason why I call it a Desert Wasteland.

 

[Modbert]

But they HAVE the right to VOTE...do they not?

This woman would SLAP yer face...

But then you may be hiding your male chauvenistic side, eh?

Or are these people too STUPID for your taste? Or is their Liberty more than you can bear? Well? YOU have yours, don't you?

Women have the right to vote in Afghanistan like servants would. They can vote however they like, but it doesn't mean their husbands or male family members will be happy. And if they aren't happy, well I don't have to tell you what will happen.

Now you're being dishonest by trying to accuse me of being chauvenistic and I think everyone in this thread can agree on that.

 

[elvis]

You're talking about undoing a culture that has been present for thousands of years.

No, I'm talking about what needs to be done to win. It can't be done. Which is my point. Which is why we need to leave Afghanistan. There's a reason why I call it a Desert Wasteland.

I don't know. Germany no longer has the anti-Semitism and xenophobia they once had. and those things didn't start with Hitler.

 

[Coyote]

In those societies? They didn't! Great observation. Our sweat/Blood made it so.

To hear the left? They seem to be outraged. Where are the Women's groups in this countyry that seem to be apparently missing on their sisters over there being oppressed, and the fact that WE gave them the RIGHT to VOTE?

Awesome thought.

Women have no rights in Afghanistan and Iraq in the present. It will only get worse over time until eventually it's business as usual. We did not liberate and we can not liberate until women get rights in these countries. Since they do not have rights, these countries are not liberated.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

They can go to school, and fill public office.

Both of which they couldn't before Bush....so like I said..you don't know what you're talking about.

You really don't know what your talking about and your ignorance in lumping Afghanistan and Iraq is particularly glaring.

Women - at the moment, in Afghanistan - have more rights than they did under the Talibon - but - and this is a BIG BUT - those rights are fragile and eroding rapidly.

In Iraq, quite the opposite is true. Women actually had more rights - constitutionally - under Saddam than they do under their current government. The only thing Saddam did that was "good" was to run a secular state. Women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime. Under Saddam, they often occupying important government positions. Now, although their rights are still enshrined in the national constitution, in practice, they have lost almost all of their rights.

 

[Modbert]

I don't know. Germany no longer has the anti-Semitism and xenophobia they once had. and those things didn't start with Hitler.

It took 6 million dead Jews and a ravaged country and Europe to see the light though.

 

[elvis]

I don't know. Germany no longer has the anti-Semitism and xenophobia they once had. and those things didn't start with Hitler.

It took 6 million dead Jews and a ravaged country and Europe to see the light though.

But they did change once a new government was set up. at least in West Germany.

 

[Modbert]

But they did change once a new government was set up. at least in West Germany.

Because we forced it and had the support of the entire world. This is not the case here. Plus, I'm willing to bet the # of males in Afghanistan who do not wish to see women's rights is much higher % wise than the # of Anti semites in Germany. Before Hitler, it wasn't that strong. What Hitler did was play on people's fears and created a scapegoat like environment that created all the anti semites.

 

[mudwhistle]

Well I thought it was the way you explain yours. Then I just realized you're ignorant to the truth.

Ask women in Afghanistan and Iraq about their so-called rights. Careful though, their husband or male family member right next to them may not like the questions you ask.

I don't understand why anybody wastes their time arguing with this piece of shit.

This is just a guess but...maybe because he makes some sense?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....

The only thing clear about him is that is that he doesn't know how to talk to people that have an opposing viewpoint without acting like a total dickwad.

 

[Coyote]

I don't understand why anybody wastes their time arguing with this piece of shit.

This is just a guess but...maybe because he makes some sense?

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....

That's one of my favorite songs. Rep points for you.

lol...it is a good song, one of my fav's too

 

[Modbert]

The only thing clear about him is that is that he doesn't know how to talk to people that have an opposing viewpoint without acting like a total dickwad.

Now that's a myth if I ever saw one. I get along with plenty of Conservatives on this board. Elvis being one of them technically if he a Conservative.

 

[elvis]

But they did change once a new government was set up. at least in West Germany.

Because we forced it and had the support of the entire world. This is not the case here. Plus, I'm willing to bet the # of males in Afghanistan who do not wish to see women's rights is much higher % wise than the # of Anti semites in Germany. Before Hitler, it wasn't that strong. What Hitler did was play on people's fears and created a scapegoat like environment that created all the anti semites.

that's not entirely true. Some of it goes back hundreds of years. martin luther was a raving anti-Semite and he had a big influence on German culture. anti-semitism was strong in Vienna when Hitler was living there as a struggling artist. Austria welcomed the Nazis and their anti-jewish laws. The historical part of the Sound of Music is total bullshit.

 

[mudwhistle]

Women have no rights in Afghanistan and Iraq in the present. It will only get worse over time until eventually it's business as usual. We did not liberate and we can not liberate until women get rights in these countries. Since they do not have rights, these countries are not liberated.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

They can go to school, and fill public office.

Both of which they couldn't before Bush....so like I said..you don't know what you're talking about.

You really don't know what your talking about and your ignorance in lumping Afghanistan and Iraq is particularly glaring.

Women - at the moment, in Afghanistan - have more rights than they did under the Talibon - but - and this is a BIG BUT - those rights are fragile and eroding rapidly.

You figured out a way to agree with me but disagree.

He said women have no rights. So obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about and even you agree with me.

Then you said I didn't know what I was talking about but you said they have rights.

So in effect you should agree with me that he doesn't know what he's talking about....but instead you decided to be on his side.

I guess it all depends on who you want to side with on any issue whether it's right or wrong.

Glad you made that very clear to us.

 

[Modbert]

that's not entirely true. Some of it goes back hundreds of years. martin luther was a raving anti-Semite and he had a big influence on German culture. anti-semitism was strong in Vienna when Hitler was living there as a struggling artist. Austria welcomed the Nazis and their anti-jewish laws. The historical part of the Sound of Music is total bullshit.

That's very true if you look at it that way. However as you stated earlier:

You're talking about undoing a culture that has been present for thousands of years.

I'm not denying that Anti-semitism didn't exist in Germany before Hitler. I'm just saying it wasn't at the level it was during Hitler's reign. However, the current culture in Afghanistan is dominant in all walks of Afghanistan life and Government. The hurdle of stopping this culture in Afghanistan is much harder than it is in Germany. Hitler was a crazy, ruthless, and had much charisma. However, he was only one man. We're talking about an entire culture and majority of a gender in this case. Plus, to many people it's part of their religion. And a religion is also much harder to go against than a political way of thinking.

Whether it is viable is still up for question however I think it's doubtful.

 

[JW Frogen]

Not only do I think this award premature, as we all know Obama has not achieved any of the goals concerning peace he has advocated, but it is wrong. Morally wrong to give this award to Obama because where he has had a chance to act on behalf of peace he has not.

In Iran he remained silent as the democracy movement was brutally crushed, offering them not even rhetorical support (until he was forced to and then it was muted) and then rushed to recognize the stolen election result.

He will not meet with the Dali Lama and has offered little or no support to Chinese dissidents (two of whom were being considered for the Peace Prize and would have been far more worthy winners) so awarding to Obama only sends a signal to the Chinese that repression is not a Nobel Committee concern.

The war in Afghanistan has degenerated, it is more violent under Obama and his administration is clearly confused about what to do about it.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict is farther from solution than it has been in decades and Obama’s stumbling with Israel has seen them make statements they do no see him as an honest broker.

Iran, having been offered Obama’s open hand of diplomatic friendship (unconditionally) has snubbed him, continues to support terror in the region and build a nuclear weapon.

Obama abandoned our NATO allies in Eastern Europe pulling away a missile defense system most of them claim is essential (not to deter Iran) but to cement their place in the Western democratic world and protect them from a resurgent Russia.

Even on areas where Obama clearly wants progress, such as global warming he can not achieve it, he will be one of the only Western leaders to go to Copenhagen without any real emissions legislation in hand, he will talk of grand aspirations but will have done in reality nothing.

Once again the Nobel Committee has confirmed they care more about PC feel good slogans than they really do the hard work of peace with freedom.

Indeed freedom does not seem to concern them at all.-

 

[Modbert]

You figured out a way to agree with me but disagree.

He said women have no rights. So obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about and even you agree with me.

Then you said I didn't know what I was talking about but you said they have rights.

So in effect you should agree with me that he doesn't know what he's talking about....but instead you decided to be on his side.

I guess it all depends on who you want to side with on any issue whether it's right or wrong.

Glad you made that very clear to us.

The "rights" of women in Afghanistan are exactly what Coyote said. They are an illusion and rapidly going back to the level they were during the Taliban. They may exist on paper but when put into action, they falter. Women can have the right to run for public office, but might telling us how many women have been elected? Women have the right to go to school, but mind telling us how many graduate? It makes it tougher upon them when the majority of them are sold off or married off before the age of 16.

I know what I'm talking about. If you care to delude yourself that the women of Afghanistan have rights then so be it. However, don't try to peddle that to the rest of us here in reality. Why don't you go ask a woman in Afghanistan in front of her husband or male family members about whether she should have more freedom and be independent like women here in America. You can then relay us back her answer. Provided you aren't killed of course.

 

[Coyote]

You really don't know what you're talking about.

They can go to school, and fill public office.

Both of which they couldn't before Bush....so like I said..you don't know what you're talking about.

You really don't know what your talking about and your ignorance in lumping Afghanistan and Iraq is particularly glaring.

Women - at the moment, in Afghanistan - have more rights than they did under the Talibon - but - and this is a BIG BUT - those rights are fragile and eroding rapidly.

You figured out a way to agree with me but disagree.

He said women have no rights. So obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about and even you agree with me.

Then you said I didn't know what I was talking about but you said they have rights.

So in effect you should agree with me that he doesn't know what he's talking about....but instead you decided to be on his side.

I guess it all depends on who you want to side with on any issue whether it's right or wrong.

Glad you made that very clear to us.

You said: They can go to school, and fill public office.

Both of which they couldn't before Bush....so like I said..you don't know what you're talking about.

You are wrong. In Iraq at least, they could do both before Bush. Now, because of violence targeted at women's schools in some regions....can they still do both?

It's not a matter of siding with anyone, it's a matter of accuracy. Iraq and Afghanistan are as different as America and Italy.

 

[Modbert]

You said: They can go to school, and fill public office.

Both of which they couldn't before Bush....so like I said..you don't know what you're talking about.

You are wrong. In Iraq at least, they could do both before Bush. Now, because of violence targeted at women's schools in some regions....can they still do both?

It's not a matter of siding with anyone, it's a matter of accuracy. Iraq and Afghanistan are as different as America and Italy.

When we first invaded Iraq, the majority of people didn't want us there. Which is why in 2006, the majority of people wanted us gone. Now it's 2009, and I'm willing to bet they still want us gone.

Great post on your part and in this thread.

 

[Coyote]

You figured out a way to agree with me but disagree.

He said women have no rights. So obviously he doesn't know what he's talking about and even you agree with me.

Then you said I didn't know what I was talking about but you said they have rights.

So in effect you should agree with me that he doesn't know what he's talking about....but instead you decided to be on his side.

I guess it all depends on who you want to side with on any issue whether it's right or wrong.

Glad you made that very clear to us.

The "rights" of women in Afghanistan are exactly what Coyote said. They are an illusion and rapidly going back to the level they were during the Taliban. They may exist on paper but when put into action, they falter. Women can have the right to run for public office, but might telling us how many women have been elected? Women have the right to go to school, but mind telling us how many graduate? It makes it tougher upon them when the majority of them are sold off or married off before the age of 16.

I know what I'm talking about. If you care to delude yourself that the women of Afghanistan have rights then so be it. However, don't try to peddle that to the rest of us here in reality. Why don't you go ask a woman in Afghanistan in front of her husband or male family members about whether she should have more freedom and be independent like women here in America. You can then relay us back her answer. Provided you aren't killed of course.

Exactly! While the "right" to an education may exist on paper, and the "right" to vote, and the "right" to hold public office the reality is that violence against women - violence that is condoned by the government - prevents them from exercising those rights. They may as well not exist.

 

[Againsheila]

So? Have we annexed Afghanistan yet?

Silly Statist LIB toad...

In WAR you are there either to Liberate the oppressed, or there to take over the Country.

Which is it numbnuts?

And YES we Liberated them, or didn't the recent election say anything to you ?

Are you normally this dense, DoggieStyle?

Except we went to Afghanistan to eliminate Al-Qaeda. The fact that the Government was involved with the group was only a circumstance.

And the election that is coming under fair for voting fraud? And have you by any chance taken a look at the Afghanistan Constitution lately?

Afghanistan: Law Curbing Women’s Rights Takes Effect | Human Rights Watch

Karzai signed the Shia Personal Status Law in March, prompting a national and international storm of protest. The law regulates the personal affairs of Shia Muslims - who make up between 10 and 20 percent of the population - including divorce, separation, inheritance, and the minimum age for marriage. The initial version of the law included articles that imposed drastic restrictions on Shia women, including a requirement to ask permission to leave the house except on urgent business, and a requirement that a wife have sex with her husband at least once every four days.

The law was designed in secret by a powerful and hard-line Shia leader, Ayatollah Asif Mohseni, and supported by conservative Shia leaders in parliament. Many women activists have accused Karzai of abandoning his previous moderate views on women's rights to help him secure votes in the presidential election.

Yep! Look liberated to me! Meet the new boss, same as old the boss.

They were AFFORDED the oppritunity to VOTE for whomever by OUR sweat/Blood Equity. It was their choice wheter YOU personally agree to it or NOT.

But this too, escapes you.

Really? Did the women get to vote?