What would you like for me to be responsible for specifically?
Zone1 Pray for the Iranian people, many comparisons right now to the Book of Esther.
- Thread starter DennisPTate
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What have I said that would give you this impression?
Yeah sure. You love Jesus so much you threw him under the bus hoping to escape the penalty for your own sins. I am sure that Jesus is extremely impressed by your love for him.
I am.
That was all the doing of Jesus Christ.
In Christian theology, Jesus' death is understood as a voluntary, sacrificial act to pay the penalty for human sin, rather than an act of Christians "throwing him under the bus." According to mainstream Christian doctrine, Jesus willingly took the punishment for humanity's transgressions—often called penal substitutionary atonement—to allow believers to be reconciled with God.
Here is a breakdown of the theological and historical understanding of this event:
- Voluntary Sacrifice, Not Betrayal: The core of the doctrine is that Jesus was not a passive victim of a conspiracy, but a voluntary participant in a divine plan. He is described as a "sacrificial lamb" who willingly gave his life, rather than being forced under the "bus" of God's wrath.
- The Penalty of Sin: Scripture states "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). Christian doctrine holds that humanity incurred a debt of sin that it could not pay, so Jesus paid that debt on the cross (Colossians 2:14).
- Substitutionary Atonement: Jesus is considered the "proxy" or substitute who took the punishment humanity deserved (penal substitution). This action is seen as a demonstration of God’s love and mercy, as God took the initiative to save humans from the consequences of their actions.
- Different Perspectives: While many Christians believe Jesus paid the literal penalty for sins, some theological perspectives, such as Christus Victor, emphasize Jesus' death as a victory over evil, death, and the devil rather than a punishment for sin.
- Alternative Viewpoint: Some interpretations argue that God was not punishing Jesus, but rather that Jesus, in his death, was revealing God’s love and absorbing the full force of human violence and hatred.
I don't care what AI regurgitates about what Christians profess to believe out of ignorance.
Before Jesus died on the cross he said telestai, a legal expression meaning "debt paid in full", his debt, not yours. Jesus showed the only way to eternal life. He can't do it for you.
You lazy spineless bastard.
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A perfect example of fostering and encouraging hate.
You are what you is.
You have even admitted to being an asshole. Were you encouraging hate against yourself?
The gospels make a concerted effort to show Jesus as teaching the role of the Messiah was as a suffering servant, prophet, high priest, and king who came to save people from sin and establish a spiritual kingdom, ultimately sacrificing his life as atonement.
Where are you getting your beliefs from?
Jesus described his role as the Messiah not as a military conqueror, but as a suffering servant, prophet, high priest, and king who came to save people from sin and establish a spiritual kingdom, ultimately sacrificing his life as atonement. He fulfilled Old Testament prophecies by acting as the mediator between God and humanity and preaching the kingdom of God.
Key elements of Jesus’ messianic role included:
- Prophet: Jesus taught the Word of God, performed miracles (healing, curing the blind/deaf), and brought the good news to the poor. He was likened to Moses, acting as a messenger authorized by God.
- High Priest: Jesus offered himself as the final sacrifice for sin, replacing the need for ritual sacrifices. He serves as a sympathetic intercessor who reconciles humanity to God.
- King: Jesus claimed a kingdom "not of this world," focused on spiritual reign rather than immediate earthly rule. He will return to establish a millennial kingdom, as noted in.
- Suffering Servant: He fulfilled prophecies (e.g., Isaiah) by suffering, dying, and resurrecting to provide salvation for both Israel and Gentiles, rather than leading a revolt against Rome.
Oh sure, I am an asshole sometimes. No denying that.
No, but depending on how often and why I called someone else that it could be.
You are disagreeing with the gospels, not AI.
Yes, and I encourage you to keep me honest when I cross over the line like I will be doing for you.
No.
I am disagreeing with the most ignorant superficial literal interpretation of those fantastical stories possible perpetuated by silly Christians who act as if they never read a fairy tale.
"They pay no heed to the real hidden meaning of things but divert themselves instead with all kinds of iniquitous arcane lore. They do not know the hidden meaning of what is actually taking place, nor have they ever understood the lessons of the past. Consequently, they have no knowledge of what is coming upon them and have done NOTHING to save their souls from the deeper implications of present events."
The "job description" of the Messiah was kept hidden or, more accurately, misunderstood in first-century Judea. While Jewish tradition expected a political/military king to restore Israel, Jesus often concealed his identity (the "Messianic Secret") to avoid fostering a false, premature, or violent image of his spiritual role, favoring a suffering servant model.
Key Aspects of the Hidden Messiah
- The "Messianic Secret" (Mark): Jesus frequently commanded followers, demons, and those he healed not to disclose that he was the Messiah.
- Preventing Misunderstanding: Most Jews anticipated a warrior king to overthrow the Romans. By revealing himself slowly, Jesus avoided being misunderstood as a revolutionary leader and aimed to focus on a ministry of service and sacrifice rather than political power.
- The Suffering Servant: The biblical, prophetic view of the Messiah—including his role as a suffering servant who dies for sins (Isaiah 53)—was not a common expectation at the time.
- Timing of Revelation: The hidden nature allowed Jesus to control when his true identity would be revealed, aiming for it to be understood in the context of his death and resurrection rather than just his miracles.
- Some scholars, like William Wrede, suggested the secret was a literary creation of Mark to explain why Jesus was not seen as a king during his lifetime.
- Others interpret the "hidden messiah" as a tradition where the Messiah walks unrecognized until God reveals him.
Israel Institute of Biblical Studies +1
Thats right.
1st century Jewish Messianic expectations were as irrational as Christian beliefs about Jesus and expectations for the 2nd coming of "the Christ" are now, the Parousia, the Arrival.
If I were you I would abandon any political party or religion that advocates discrimination against the innocent, sinners in your eyes, immigrants, women, blacks, hispanics, gays, trans gender, the poor, demonized, and anyone who isn't a fascist asshole pig on the wing.
Jesus is coming! ANY MINUTE! Get it together dufus or there will be HELL to pay!
I heard that Jesus could get pissed off about such things. especially if done in his name.
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