POLL: If offered two options from politicians for your retirement which would you choose?

[Nostra]

PLAN A:

• Your are forced to contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get none of it back.
• Your death benefit is $255
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1000 and $1800 per month.
• You can't leave any of the hundreds of thousands you contributed to your heirs upon death. It's gone.

PLAN B:

• You are forced contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get no monthly income....but
• Your death benefit is up to $215,000
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1500 and $6000
• Once you die, at any age, the amount you have contributed PLUS any gains can be left to your heirs.

 

[Rambunctious]

I choose the one where they leave me the fuck alone... just like the constitution says....

 

[1srelluc]

Meh, I already got mine....Don't care....You youngins' can figure it out.

Oh, but don't think us old farts won't be watching you like hawks.....I like my fun money.

 

[Dragonlady]

PLAN A:

• Your are forced to contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get none of it back.
• Your death benefit is $255
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1000 and $1800 per month.
• You can't leave any of the hundreds of thousands you contributed to your heirs upon death. It's gone.

PLAN B:

• You are forced contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get no monthly income....but
• Your death benefit is up to $215,000
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1500 and $6000
• Once you die, at any age, the amount you have contributed PLUS any gains can be left to your heirs.

Plan B does not exist, and is a flight of your imagination.

The USA has the 3rd highest levels of poverty in the developed world. What you're currently doing isn't working.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

PLAN A:

• Your are forced to contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get none of it back.
• Your death benefit is $255
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1000 and $1800 per month.
• You can't leave any of the hundreds of thousands you contributed to your heirs upon death. It's gone.

PLAN B:

• You are forced contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get no monthly income....but
• Your death benefit is up to $215,000
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1500 and $6000
• Once you die, at any age, the amount you have contributed PLUS any gains can be left to your heirs.

Plan B is just your fantasy. Why didn't you say so?

 

[kyzr]

Looks like plan-A is Social Security and plan-B is a 401k??
But there is no way to guarantee $215,000.
You would get out what you put in plus any company match.

I have both.

 

[Mac1958]

Holy crap.

Well, having written, structured and implemented many retirement plans for clients over the last two-plus decades, I can tell you that these options are quite flawed, farcical, and a general waste of bandwidth.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Looks like plan-A is Social Security and plan-B is a 401k??
But there is no way to guarantee $215,000.
You would get out what you put in plus any company match.

I have both.

So do most people.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Holy crap.

Well, having written, structured and implemented many retirement plans for clients over the last two-plus decades, I can tell you that these options are quite flawed, farcical, and a general waste of bandwidth.

You don't realize that Plan A is very close to our current SS?

 

[Mac1958]

You don't realize that Plan A is very close to our current SS?

It's similar to it, but wrong.

Retirement planning is a serious undertaking, and misinformation just makes that worse.

 

[Seymour Flops]

PLAN A:

• Your are forced to contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get none of it back.
• Your death benefit is $255
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1000 and $1800 per month.
• You can't leave any of the hundreds of thousands you contributed to your heirs upon death. It's gone.

PLAN B:

• You are forced contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get no monthly income....but
• Your death benefit is up to $215,000
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1500 and $6000
• Once you die, at any age, the amount you have contributed PLUS any gains can be left to your heirs.

I think I see where you're going with this. If employers were forced to deduct from employees paychecks and put the money into a 401K type retirement plan, the return would be far greater, of course.

But return on investment for retirees is no longer the point of Social Security, if it ever was. The government immediately takes our contributions from the Social Security "Trust Fund," and replaces the actual money with treasury notes, so it can use the cash money to finance it's operations.

The government would never want to lose that cash cow.

 

[Nostra]

Plan B does not exist, and is a flight of your imagination.

The USA has the 3rd highest levels of poverty in the developed world. What you're currently doing isn't working.

Once again you demonstrate what a colossal moron you are Dragonlady

Plan B is just your fantasy. Why didn't you say so?

And you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are, Ensign Pulver.

4 counties in Texas opted out of SS before Congress outlawed it and implemented the plan described. This is a real world example of what we should have instead of the SS Ponzi scheme.




Like Social Security, employees contribute 6.2 percent of their income, with the county matching the contribution (Galveston has chosen to provide a slightly larger share). Once the county makes its contribution, its financial obligation is done. So there are no long-term unfunded liabilities.

But not all of that money goes into an employee’s retirement account. When financial planner Rick Gornto devised the Alternate Plan in 1981, he wanted it to be a complete substitute for Social Security. And Social Security isn’t just a retirement fund; it’s social insurance that provides a death benefit—a whopping $255—survivors’ insurance, and a disability benefit.

Part of the employer contribution in the Alternate Plan goes toward a term life insurance policy, which pays four times the employee’s salary tax free, up to a maximum of $215,000. That’s nearly 850 times Social Security’s death benefit.

More importantly, if a worker participating in Social Security dies before retirement, he loses his contribution (though part of that money might go to surviving children, if any, or a spouse who didn’t work and therefore didn’t establish his or her own benefits). But a worker in the Alternate Plan owns his account, so the entire account belongs to the estate. There is also, among other benefits, a disability benefit that pays immediately upon injury, rather than waiting six months, plus other restrictions, as under Social Security.

And those who retire under the Galveston model do much better than Social Security. For example:

• A lower-middle income worker making about $26,000 at retirement would get about $1,007 a month under Social Security, but $1,826 under the Alternate Plan, according to First Financial’s calculations.
• A middle-income worker making $51,200 would get about $1,540 monthly from Social Security, but $3,600 from the banking model.
• And a high-income worker who maxed out on his Social Security contribution every year would receive about $2,500 a month from Social Security vs. $5,000 to $6,000 a month from the Alternate Plan.

What the Alternate Plan has demonstrated over 30 years is that personal retirement accounts work, with many retirees making more than twice what they would have made under Social Security. And that model could work for the roughly 25 percent of public employees—about 6 million people—who are part of state and local government retirement plans. It could also serve as a model for reforming Social Security.

How Three Texas Counties Created Personal Social Security Accounts and Prospered

Three Texas counties opted out of Social Security 30 years ago by switching to personal accounts, and those workers have made money every year.

www.forbes.com

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It's similar to it, but wrong.

Retirement planning is a serious undertaking, and misinformation just makes that worse.

That's funny! Option A looks great deal like my SS benefits I just applied for!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

And you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are, Ensign Pulver.

4 counties in Texas opted out of SS before Congress outlawed it and implemented the plan described. This is a real world example of what we should have instead of the SS Ponzi scheme.




Like Social Security, employees contribute 6.2 percent of their income, with the county matching the contribution (Galveston has chosen to provide a slightly larger share). Once the county makes its contribution, its financial obligation is done. So there are no long-term unfunded liabilities.

But not all of that money goes into an employee’s retirement account. When financial planner Rick Gornto devised the Alternate Plan in 1981, he wanted it to be a complete substitute for Social Security. And Social Security isn’t just a retirement fund; it’s social insurance that provides a death benefit—a whopping $255—survivors’ insurance, and a disability benefit.

Part of the employer contribution in the Alternate Plan goes toward a term life insurance policy, which pays four times the employee’s salary tax free, up to a maximum of $215,000. That’s nearly 850 times Social Security’s death benefit.

More importantly, if a worker participating in Social Security dies before retirement, he loses his contribution (though part of that money might go to surviving children, if any, or a spouse who didn’t work and therefore didn’t establish his or her own benefits). But a worker in the Alternate Plan owns his account, so the entire account belongs to the estate. There is also, among other benefits, a disability benefit that pays immediately upon injury, rather than waiting six months, plus other restrictions, as under Social Security.

And those who retire under the Galveston model do much better than Social Security. For example:

• A lower-middle income worker making about $26,000 at retirement would get about $1,007 a month under Social Security, but $1,826 under the Alternate Plan, according to First Financial’s calculations.
• A middle-income worker making $51,200 would get about $1,540 monthly from Social Security, but $3,600 from the banking model.
• And a high-income worker who maxed out on his Social Security contribution every year would receive about $2,500 a month from Social Security vs. $5,000 to $6,000 a month from the Alternate Plan.

What the Alternate Plan has demonstrated over 30 years is that personal retirement accounts work, with many retirees making more than twice what they would have made under Social Security. And that model could work for the roughly 25 percent of public employees—about 6 million people—who are part of state and local government retirement plans. It could also serve as a model for reforming Social Security.

How Three Texas Counties Created Personal Social Security Accounts and Prospered

Three Texas counties opted out of Social Security 30 years ago by switching to personal accounts, and those workers have made money every year.

www.forbes.com

Hey Shit for brains! I was a teacher for 21 years. and the last 10 contributed nothing to SS. My retirement benefits were reduced and I am ineligible for disability. Railroad workers do not use SS either!

We were not talking about EVERYONE, were we?

I also had a 403B which is the educator version of a 401K. Thanks to Brandon's stupid economic policies, I lost about 35 percent pf my retirement in 2021.

Does your alternate plan account for economic crashes?

 

[Mac1958]

That's funny! Option A looks great deal like my SS benefits I just applied for!

Then your benefits must not be very high. The OP says benefits are only $1000 to $1800 per month. Lots of people's benefits are $2800 and above. That makes a huge difference in retirement income planning.

Also spousal income benefits can make a huge difference.

So those are two significant distortions in the OP. I don't expect you to admit it or get it.

 

[Care4all]

I think I see where you're going with this. If employers were forced to deduct from employees paychecks and put the money into a 401K type retirement plan, the return would be far greater, of course.

But return on investment for retirees is no longer the point of Social Security, if it ever was. The government immediately takes our contributions from the Social Security "Trust Fund," and replaces the actual money with treasury notes, so it can use the cash money to finance it's operations.

The government would never want to lose that cash cow.

But the surplus collection days are over....there is no more SS surplus they can use to cover their deficit spending amounts?

Only now are those pushing this, pushing it....no more money to steal, borrow from....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Then your benefits must not be very high. The OP says benefits are only $1000 to $1800 per month. Lots of people's benefits are $2800 and above. That makes a huge difference in retirement income planning.

Also spousal income benefits can make a huge difference.

So those are two significant distortions in the OP. I don't expect you to admit it or get it.

My early retirement at 62 is over $1400 a month. At full retirement at 67 would be slightly over $2000, but I can't wait that long due to my health putting me out of work.

Your defklection and personal bias to exaggerate are noted.

 

[Nostra]

Hey Shit for brains! I was a teacher for 21 years. and the last 10 contributed nothing to SS. My retirement benefits were reduced and I am ineligible for disability. Railroad workers do not use SS either!

We were not talking about EVERYONE, were we?

I also had a 403B which is the educator version of a 401K. Thanks to Brandon's stupid economic policies, I lost about 35 percent pf my retirement in 2021.

Does your alternate plan account for economic crashes?

I guess you should read the link, Stupid. Your continued ignorance isn't my problem, Ensign.

 

[Nostra]

Then your benefits must not be very high. The OP says benefits are only $1000 to $1800 per month. Lots of people's benefits are $2800 and above. That makes a huge difference in retirement income planning.

Also spousal income benefits can make a huge difference.

So those are two significant distortions in the OP. I don't expect you to admit it or get it.

The Forbes link is from 2011, I believe, so SS numbers have most likely risen a little.................but the numbers from the alternative have most likely risen many times more than the SS increases.

 

[BluesLegend]

PLAN A:

• Your are forced to contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get none of it back.
• Your death benefit is $255
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1000 and $1800 per month.
• You can't leave any of the hundreds of thousands you contributed to your heirs upon death. It's gone.

PLAN B:

• You are forced contribute over 6% of every dollar you earn over your entire career to the plan
• If you die before retirement age you get no monthly income....but
• Your death benefit is up to $215,000
• Your expected monthly retirement is between $1500 and $6000
• Once you die, at any age, the amount you have contributed PLUS any gains can be left to your heirs.

Well shit Plan A won't work. The politicians can't steal your money and spend it on other crap or use your money to dole out FREE shit to people who don't pay into the plan or jack up the retirement age so you DIE before you collect one cent then keep all your money while laughing. Oh wait, that's Social Security.