Political Theories on Recent Shootings

[candycorn]

Bonds on the weapons aren't taxes

Like everything else ... A fee, a tax, a bond ... It is revenue for the Federal Government and you can call it whatever you want.
Also ... Bonds don't have to be taxes ... If they are legislative and restrict citizens from practicing a Constitutionally protected right, then out the window they go.

I mean face it ... Every bit of your ideas are a cowardly attempt to get around the Second Amendment ... And you don't have the honesty or wherewithal to understand why they put it their to start with.
.

You have the right to bear arms.
Nobody says it has to be inexpensive or free

As with all matters involving the court...thats up for a decision by the judges/juries. Did you think Obamacare was constitutional insofar as making us buy insurance? I didn't.

 

[BlackSand]

If the price of a pistol goes up from $375 to $600, you're saying that Janet will go rogue, start buying black market weapons?

Sell crazy somewhere else.

In some states (like Louisiana) it is not illegal to purchase a firearm from another person.
If Janet lives there ... She won't have to go to the black market.
You will have to outlaw firearms altogether ... Before you can make her look any further than a half-mile south of the Eagle Truck Stop on Hwy 84.

Edit:
Cost means nothing ... For all practical purposes, you can buy stock parts and make it yourself.
Gunsmiths have been making left-handed conversions for quite some time.

.

 

[BlackSand]

You have the right to bear arms.
Nobody says it has to be inexpensive or free

As with all matters involving the court...thats up for a decision by the judges/juries. Did you think Obamacare was constitutional insofar as making us buy insurance? I didn't.

That is my point ... You are not getting rid of firearms, or the continued production and feasible sales of firearms ... Until you take the steps necessary to outlaw the firearm itself.
If that is what you want ... Then there is a process by which it can be done ... But even if you stop the production of firearms, you are 270,000,000 plus firearms behind.

I think it will be more interesting than the ACA ... If the government gets stupid enough to try and collect them all.

.

 

[rdean]

The article continues:

The pattern is staggering. A number of U.S. cities have gun homicide rates in line with the most deadly nations in the world.

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.

Detroit's gun homicide rate (35.9) is just a bit less than El Salvador (39.9).

Baltimore's rate (29.7) is not too far off that of Guatemala (34.8).

Gun murder in Newark (25.4) and Miami (23.7) is comparable to Colombia (27.1).

Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

Los Angeles (9.2) is comparable to the Philippines (8.9).

Boston rate (6.2) is higher than Nicaragua (5.9).

New York, where gun murders have declined to just four per 100,000, is still higher than Argentina (3).

Even the cities with the lowest homicide rates by American standards, like San Jose and Austin, compare to Albania and Cambodia respectively.

Austin...the capitol of the reddest state in the union...

That any murder makes the news any longer is more bizarre than the murder itself it seems.

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

 

[Spoonman]

The article continues:

The pattern is staggering. A number of U.S. cities have gun homicide rates in line with the most deadly nations in the world.

If it were a country, New Orleans (with a rate 62.1 gun murders per 100,000 people) would rank second in the world.

Detroit's gun homicide rate (35.9) is just a bit less than El Salvador (39.9).

Baltimore's rate (29.7) is not too far off that of Guatemala (34.8).

Gun murder in Newark (25.4) and Miami (23.7) is comparable to Colombia (27.1).

Washington D.C. (19) has a higher rate of gun homicide than Brazil (18.1).

Atlanta's rate (17.2) is about the same as South Africa (17).

Cleveland (17.4) has a higher rate than the Dominican Republic (16.3).

Gun murder in Buffalo (16.5) is similar to Panama (16.2).

Houston's rate (12.9) is slightly higher than Ecuador's (12.7).

Gun homicide in Chicago (11.6) is similar to Guyana (11.5).

Phoenix's rate (10.6) is slightly higher than Mexico (10).

Los Angeles (9.2) is comparable to the Philippines (8.9).

Boston rate (6.2) is higher than Nicaragua (5.9).

New York, where gun murders have declined to just four per 100,000, is still higher than Argentina (3).

Even the cities with the lowest homicide rates by American standards, like San Jose and Austin, compare to Albania and Cambodia respectively.

Austin...the capitol of the reddest state in the union...

That any murder makes the news any longer is more bizarre than the murder itself it seems.

some of the toughest gun laws in the country in those cities

 

[legaleagle_45]

Sure...the guys living in slum apartments will convert their meth labs into weapons factories.....I can see it now.

You obviously are uniformed. In the aftermath of Tienanmen square, and "officially" as a crime control measure, the Chinese government became one of the very few countries in the world to totally ban the private ownership of all firearms (even the UK allows the ownership of long arms for hunting and Japan allows shotguns for hunting).

China, of course is not a democracy, has no 2nd Amend, has no 4th Amend (allowing warrantless general searches) and no 5th Amend (thus no compensation for a taking)

China also has the second largest number of firearms currently in private hands... all of them illegally with a thriving home made gun business in Hong Kong. See, Small Arms Survey 2012 .

In the immediate aftermath of Washington DC banning the private ownership of handguns in 1976 20% of handguns recovered by DC police were homemade. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, Analysis of Operation CUE (Concentrated Urban Enforcement), interim report 133-34 (February 15, 1977).

If you make something rare, you increase its price on the black market. Equilibrium will come to play by encouraging illegal production or the sale of firearms unknown to the government. The only question is at what level will the price stabilize. Making guns is much easier, cheaper and less dangerous than making meth.... and it is harder to prevent. It is quite easy to put controls on sudafed, not so easy to put controls on scrap metal

A study which you may wish to read is Imagining Gun Control in America: Understanding the Remainder Problem Wake Forest Law Review, Vol. 43, 2008

Available for download here:

Imagining Gun Control in America: Understanding the Remainder Problem by Nicholas James Johnson :: SSRN

 

[g5000]

Take off your tin foil hat and think about this for a minute.

I don't wear a tin foil hat, but I see you do.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

They are not listing states, they are listing cities, such as

New Orleans (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1946)
Detroit (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1970)
Baltimore (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1967)
Newark (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1896)

well, you get the idea..

 

[Synthaholic]

Strict gun control in NYC, and they have one of the best ratios.

Imagine that. (Actually, you don't have to - it's a fact!)

 

[Pogo]

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

They are not listing states, they are listing cities, such as

New Orleans (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1946)
Detroit (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1970)
Baltimore (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1967)
Newark (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1896)

well, you get the idea..

I don't. What is the idea?

 

[rdean]

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

They are not listing states, they are listing cities, such as

New Orleans (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1946)
Detroit (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1970)
Baltimore (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1967)
Newark (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1896)

well, you get the idea..

Somehow you missed Atlanta and Houston and the FACT that two thirds of all gun related deaths are suicide with most being in Red States by white guys. But I guess that's OK.

 

[Clementine]

And, quite naturally, the 'Conservatives' answer is that we need more guns out there among civilians. I find myself totally astounded by that idea. What kind of alternative reality are these fools living in?

It's a reality where people realize that the majority of us are not criminals. We know criminals will still have guns regardless of how many laws are created. We know that there are not enough police to protect everyone from the criminals. Even the police with the fastest response can't get there before the perp kills the victim and that is IF anyone even calls the police prior to a murder. Usually, the caller just reports a body found. We also know that places where guns are banned might as well have targets painted on them.

It amazes me that some pretend to be scared because intelligent, normal human beings chose to have the ability to protect themselves instead of being vulnerable. They want laws to control those normal citizens, even though it would mean a surge in crime because it would turn us all into sitting ducks. What a dream that would be for those gangs, murderers, rapists and home invaders.

I know people have totally different ways of looking at things. Here's a little test for those who have a sense of humor. Might be a joke, but in a way rings true.

Are you a Democrat, a Republican or a Redneck?

Here is a little test that will help you decide.

Read the following scenario carefully and see what your instincts tell you to do. Then read what others would do and see which group you fit into.

Here's the scenario:

You're walking down a deserted street with your spouse and two small children.

Suddenly, a terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges at you.

You are carrying a Colt 1911 cal. 45 ACP, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?



Typical Democrat reaction:

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

What is a Colt 1911 cal. 45 ACP?

Does the man look poor or oppressed?

Is he really a terrorist? Am I guilty of profiling?

Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?

Could we run away?

What does my wife think?

What about the kids?

Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?

What does the law say about this situation?

Does the pistol have appropriate safety built into it?

Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?

Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?

If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?

Should I call 9-1-1?

Why is this street so deserted?

Can we make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.

I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

This is all so confusing!


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Most common Republican reaction:


BANG!



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Most common redneck reaction:


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

Click . . . . . (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG!
BANG!

Click


Southerner's Daughter: 'Nice grouping, Daddy!'
'Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?'

Southerner's Son: 'Can I shoot the next one?!'

Southerner's Wife: 'You ain't taking that to the Taxidermist!

 

[Geaux4it]

And, quite naturally, the 'Conservatives' answer is that we need more guns out there among civilians. I find myself totally astounded by that idea. What kind of alternative reality are these fools living in?

The reality is the armed police have no legal obligation to come to your aid. So it is the defenders responsibility to protect his life and property. Doing so, I choose to use the same weapon the police use should they show.

Pretty simple to understand I think.

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

They are not listing states, they are listing cities, such as

New Orleans (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1946)
Detroit (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1970)
Baltimore (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1967)
Newark (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1896)

well, you get the idea..

Somehow you missed Atlanta and Houston and the FACT that two thirds of all gun related deaths are suicide with most being in Red States by white guys. But I guess that's OK.

Why should you be concerned about suicides? More power to them to choose their own destiny

MYOB

-Geaux

 

[legaleagle_45]

Somehow you missed Atlanta and Houston

Atlanta (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1942)
Houston (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1939)

Happy now?

and the FACT that two thirds of all gun related deaths are suicide with most being in Red States by white guys. But I guess that's OK.

Most suicides are in rural areas and most rural areas are red, while most urban areas are blue. The fact that firearms are employed in suicides is irrelevant however.. at least if one were to believe the World Health Organization

“[R]emoving an easy and favored method of suicide was not likely to affect substantially the overall suicide rate because other methods would be chosen.” World Health Organization, Changing Patterns in Suicide Behavior.

The reason why suicide is higher in rural areas is because of isolation and the absence of a social safety net ... not the presence or absence of guns. This holds true worldwide with the presence or absence of firearms not being of too much import. Another major factor in suicides is cultural. Japan has almost no privately owned guns yet its suicide rate is substantially greater than the COMBINED homicide/suicide rate in the USA. Surprisingly, strict gun control France has a suicide rate which is almost equivalent to the COMBINED homicide/suicide rate in the USA... not sure why, perhaps because they eat frog legs? Latin America and other heavily roman catholic countries have very low suicide rates even though many of those Latin American countries have substantially greater homicides rates than the US. The fact is our suicide rate is quite similar to the suicide rate in strict gun control countries of Europe and is essentially equivalent to Canada's (some years theirs is higher and some years ours is higher).

However there is a distinct group of persons who are scientifically known as "irrationalis gungrabosus" and who differ with the conclusions of the World Health Organization. It is the firm belief of this group that guns give off evil vibes which compel otherwise normal and happy people to commit suicide. I assume you subscribe to that view?

 

[legaleagle_45]

Wow, look at all those Red State cities ahead of Chicago. USMB Republicans make it seem as if Chicago is the most dangerous place on earth. Guess they lied, again.

They are not listing states, they are listing cities, such as

New Orleans (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1946)
Detroit (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1970)
Baltimore (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1967)
Newark (continuous Democratic Mayor since 1896)

well, you get the idea..

I don't. What is the idea?

That rdean's theory of red guns versus blue gun is absurd.

 

[legaleagle_45]

I guess you got me on that one...no taxes!

Obviously you do not comprehend. A tax designed to limit the exercise of a right by selectively making that right more expensive via taxes, fess or other assessments of time and energy is unconstitutional. You should understand that argument quite well as liberals make the same exact argument in relation to requiring voter ID and in connection to requiring certain medical examinations for abortions.

A general sales tax on all items including firearms and printing supplies is quite ok. A special tax or fee which applies solely or primarily to firearms and/or printing supplies with the avowed purpose of "diminishing the supply" of firearms or newspapers is quite unconstitutional... to even assert otherwise is indeed

 

[legaleagle_45]

You have the right to bear arms.
Nobody says it has to be inexpensive or free

[sarcasm mode on] You have the right to free exercise of religion. Nobody says it has to be inexpensive or free. Thus, we can impose a huge tax on religions (especially high taxes on religions which we do not like) and thereby tax them out of existence...[sarcasm mode off]

 

[BlackSand]

I guess you got me on that one...no taxes!

Obviously you do not comprehend. A tax designed to limit the exercise of a right by selectively making that right more expensive via taxes, fess or other assessments of time and energy is unconstitutional. You should understand that argument quite well as liberals make the same exact argument in relation to requiring voter ID and in connection to requiring certain medical examinations for abortions.

A general sales tax on all items including firearms and printing supplies is quite ok. A special tax or fee which applies solely or primarily to firearms and/or printing supplies with the avowed purpose of "diminishing the supply" of firearms or newspapers is quite unconstitutional... to even assert otherwise is indeed

You are correct that it doesn't have to be a tax at all ... The cases also talked about "perfunctory purchase" ... Or the ability to buy something with ease and without added hardships.
Legislation that helps set the price of an item at a point where it restricts the ability of a citizen to exercise a Constitutionally protected right ... Is not acceptable in the view of the Supreme Court.

.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Strict gun control in NYC, and they have one of the best ratios.

Imagine that. (Actually, you don't have to - it's a fact!)

Why do you think gun control worked in NYC and failed in DC and Chicago? They had very similar crime rates in the early 1990's and each employed gun control as the primary crime prevention tool. Something changed in NYC and a steady drop in crime and homicides began under Giuliani starting in the mid 90's.. and it was not associated with any new gun control laws.

Meanwhile DC and Chicago maintained the same strategy of relying upon gun control and began an annual competition to win the coveted title of "murder capital USA".