So now why don't you explain how to administer a big country without big government?So more big government. Again NOT A LIBERAL. Thanks for playing.
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So now why don't you explain how to administer a big country without big government?So more big government. Again NOT A LIBERAL. Thanks for playing.
You're advocating for an individual right to commit control fraud?Is that the plan? Is that individual liberty? Is that limited government?
So now why don't you explain how to administer a big country without big government?So more big government. Again NOT A LIBERAL. Thanks for playing.
Bailed out bankers working for banks that were too big to fail (or jail) were allowed to keep the bonuses, remember?WTF are you yammering about here?
'Classical liberalism' dates back to the 19th century, but liberalism as a political movement dates back to the enlightenment: Classical liberalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopediaOnly a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
Does the USA precede the advent of what we now describe as 'classical liberalism?'
hipeter924
Bailed out bankers working for banks that were too big to fail (or jail) were allowed to keep the bonuses, remember?WTF are you yammering about here?
The two in bold already do, at least according to the intent of the US Constitution - and don't forget the monopoly that the British Empire had on America (not just the tax and duties) before the war of independence.Only a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
That's never been this country or any other.
Liberals aren't afraid of democracy, are you?Liberals are not big government advocates.
1) They didn't intend for there to be a Federal Reserve or a surveillance society, some were opposed to allowing slavery, and some opposed the concept of a Federal government itself.Only a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
Did the founders when they framed and ratified the US Constitution intend of having a free market economy as we understand it today and did they even know what a small government party is?
Nor was the constitution meant to be an economic rule book. It's fairly easy to argue what the founders didn't want, but the constitution they established doesn't necessary show their beliefs of how America should be - rather it was a messy compromise.
However, they did put forward the concept of limited government, rather than an overreaching one.
The US constitution changes according to the amendment process, and was never meant to be set in stone to the point it could never be amended by an elected government.
Liberals aren't afraid of democracy, are you?Liberals are not big government advocates.
The two in bold already do, at least according to the intent of the US Constitution - and don't forget the monopoly that the British Empire had on America (not just the tax and duties) before the war of independence.Only a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
That's never been this country or any other.
One of my friends dares people that speak against big government, to provide an example of a major nation or superpower that has come to exist without a strong and powerful government. Usually they fall silent, as pretty much every country on Earth was built on a fabric of regulation and government control over the economy.So now why don't you explain how to administer a big country without big government?So more big government. Again NOT A LIBERAL. Thanks for playing.
One of my friends dares people that speak against big government, to provide an example of a major nation or superpower that has come to exist without a strong and powerful government. Usually they fall silent, as pretty much every country on Earth was built on a fabric of regulation and government control over the economy.So now why don't you explain how to administer a big country without big government?So more big government. Again NOT A LIBERAL. Thanks for playing.
'Classical liberalism' dates back to the 19th century, but liberalism as a political movement dates back to the enlightenment: Classical liberalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopediaOnly a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
Does the USA precede the advent of what we now describe as 'classical liberalism?'
hipeter924
Depends on whether you identify with the liberal philosophies of the 18th century or the 19th - the US Constitution having been ratified in 1788, and before that the Articles of Confederation in 1777. The earlier shaped the initial beginnings of America, and classical liberalism came to hold a place in US politics after that.
Liberals aren't afraid of democracy, are you?Liberals are not big government advocates.
Which one, Massachusetts?The two in bold already do, at least according to the intent of the US Constitution - and don't forget the monopoly that the British Empire had on America (not just the tax and duties) before the war of independence.Only a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
That's never been this country or any other.
ever read teh state constitution that preceded the national one? - Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.?
Never said the founders agreed over everything. The US Constitution was ultimately a compromise of various religious and political factions, and one of those compromises was a secular government*. State constitutions after the Federal constitution was passed effectively became secondary, hence the situation today where US state constitutions can forbid atheists from holding public office, yet such restrictions are overturned by the Federal US constitution.Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments, provided he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship.
I meant, it depends who you identify with, and whether you would consider the liberal philosophies of the 18th or 19th century (when 'classical liberalism' began) as more significant to the establishment of America.'Classical liberalism' dates back to the 19th century, but liberalism as a political movement dates back to the enlightenment: Classical liberalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopediaOnly a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
Does the USA precede the advent of what we now describe as 'classical liberalism?'
hipeter924
Depends on whether you identify with the liberal philosophies of the 18th century or the 19th - the US Constitution having been ratified in 1788, and before that the Articles of Confederation in 1777. The earlier shaped the initial beginnings of America, and classical liberalism came to hold a place in US politics after that.
So the people that founded the USA were not classical liberals?
Give me an example of a serious progressive authoritarian statist from 20th century US History; would either Teddy Roosevelt or Eugene V. Debs qualify?Using democracy in this regard is the hallmark of a serious progressive authoritarian statist.
Have to agree, as the founders clearly spoke against the 'tyranny of majority', and established checks and balances within the political system to avert such a situation.Liberals aren't afraid of democracy, are you?Liberals are not big government advocates.
This one is, as were most all of the Founders. Or at least the ones who won the argument of the day
Which one, Massachusetts?The two in bold already do, at least according to the intent of the US Constitution - and don't forget the monopoly that the British Empire had on America (not just the tax and duties) before the war of independence.Only a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
That's never been this country or any other.
ever read teh state constitution that preceded the national one? - Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.?
Never said the founders agreed over everything. The US Constitution was ultimately a compromise of various religious and political factions, and one of those compromises was a secular government*. State constitutions after the Federal constitution was passed effectively became secondary, hence the situation today where US state constitutions can forbid atheists from holding public office, yet such restrictions are overturned by the Federal US constitution.Article II. It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his religious profession or sentiments, provided he doth not disturb the public peace or obstruct others in their religious worship.
*Secular government is a loose term however, and doesn't have to mean absence of religion in politics, such as a separation of church and state.
I meant, it depends who you identify with, and whether you would consider the liberal philosophies of the 18th or 19th century (when 'classical liberalism' began) as more significant to the establishment of America.'Classical liberalism' dates back to the 19th century, but liberalism as a political movement dates back to the enlightenment: Classical liberalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopediaOnly a small percentage of Americans want a government and corporate restrained America. Very few of them are in the GOP or Democratic Party.Political Liberty and The Right of Popular Rebellion Against Tyranny: It is a liberal concept. So is democracy as well as republicanism. Conservatives in the USA come out of the liberal tradition.
We are all liberals. We're liberals of different stripes.
Sane, rational, and reasonable people know tyranny does not exist in the USA today. Why? We have representative government with open and free elections. The ultimate power resides in the vote, not money or political power.
A truly free America in terms of classical liberalism, would be one where most of these are the case:
- The government doesn't regulate most aspects of morality, including marriage.
- The governments focus is maintaing infrastructure and restraining corporations from establishing monopolies
- Taxes are voluntary and government services are on a use it you buy it principle.
- Everyone is taxed the same percentage.
- Property rights supersede utilitarian attitudes.
- Private healthcare, and no restrictions on operations like abortions, or stem-cell research. This goes with the government staying out of people's lives.
- Financial regulations are mostly removed, but there are no bailouts or subsidies. Just pure rise or sink capitalism.
- No government subsidies of any kind.
- Secular society where religion is a private sphere matter with no interference from the government.
- No welfare system, and obviously no food stamps.
That isn't the GOP platform, because it doesn't want small government any more than the Democratic Party. Without corporate donors and lobbyists, most US political parties wouldn't exist.
Most government legislation in America contains clauses that create subsidies or tax loopholes for a few corporations. This is not about building a free market, but using the government as a means to disadvantage other corporations or businesses.
There is no such thing as a 'small government party' in America, with the exception of the libertarian party. Only a few rebel factions exist in the two major parties - and like Ron Paul, they are ignored.
Does the USA precede the advent of what we now describe as 'classical liberalism?'
hipeter924
Depends on whether you identify with the liberal philosophies of the 18th century or the 19th - the US Constitution having been ratified in 1788, and before that the Articles of Confederation in 1777. The earlier shaped the initial beginnings of America, and classical liberalism came to hold a place in US politics after that.
So the people that founded the USA were not classical liberals?