Police admit they were wrong in delaying engaging shooter in Uvalde School

[1srelluc]

There was an event at school that day if I understand correctly. It was the end of the school year. If you think doors are not propped open on those days to let big groups of parents in and out I don't know what you're thinking.

But yeah, since that teacher already probably literally wants to die--if she is already not one of two teachers who died--go ahead and vilify her more. Teachers don't get enough of that crap and there are SO MANY people banging on the school doors who can't wait to be teachers!!!!!!!

Maybe a deserved prosecution will give teachers/school officials pause before willingly compromising the security of their schools.

That said current school security is a joke and unless doors/movement are controlled it will remain a joke.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

And no one ever will. The video I showed to the first teacher killed via Mia who saw what happened.

The killer shot out the window in the door. Walked at the teacher as she backed up. Then said GOOD NIGHT. And shot her at point blank range. Then shot the next teacher and shot at everyone in the room.


Watch the MIA video........the reporter told her story. She took the phone off the dead teacher and called for help. The shooter was in the next room. Pleading.........WE ARE IN TROUBLE. HELP.

Are you telling me if you were outside and heard that you would JUST SIT THERE?

If I knew I could get there before he got into the other room then I would have gotten in there and took the proper cover and opened fire.

We both know what a slug shot could do and no matter what he would have went down, so yes I would have entered and engaged.

 

[eagle1462010]

Question the non-lethal means include a shotgun with bean bag round, and taser style gun?

There are many means. Those could be used. A Pkp Fire extinguisher. Bear mace. Wasp spray. A BASEBALL BAT..........a desk.

ANYTHING. Think outside the box. I think they need basic defense training from trained professionals. Doesn't mean they will survive the next shooting. Just gives them enough to at least have a better chance of living when it happens again.

 

[eagle1462010]

If I knew I could get there before he got into the other room then I would have gotten in there and took the proper cover and opened fire.

We both know what a slug shot could do and no matter what he would have went down, so yes I would have entered and engaged.

So would I. That's the whole point. These guys didn't. And while they sat there more died.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Every cop who waited a single moment after arriving needs to be charged as an accessory in every murder that occurred after they made the decision to wait.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

There are many means. Those could be used. A Pkp Fire extinguisher. Bear mace. Wasp spray. A BASEBALL BAT..........a desk.

ANYTHING. Think outside the box. I think they need basic defense training from trained professionals. Doesn't mean they will survive the next shooting. Just gives them enough to at least have a better chance of living when it happens again.

Flip desk as a shield is what I teach and that everything is a weapon and what that little girl did was smart and saved her life when she wiped blood all over her.

You are correct every teacher and student need to be trained and I am thinking we need Israeli training for them…

So would I. That's the whole point. These guys didn't. And while they sat there more died.

The issue is we can’t count on local authorities to do what is needed.

We have people scuffing at automatic lockdown on doors because they view it as a prison but our schools are minimum security prisons already so let do it correctly…

What need to change in schools:

1. A Central Control that will lock the rooms down.

2. The inside of the glass room should have shutters that roll down over the windows and door.

3. All teachers and students to be trained in what to do and that mean flipping the desks and using them as shields.

4. Shotgun with bean bag ammo along with mace should be used and Bear spray or even a loud can horn to blow so you can distract the shooter.

5. Never count on the local authorities because they lack the proper training and shouldn’t be counted on.

Final note in this response:

What has happened will happen again, so let work on those things along with getting the mentally insane the mental health they are needed and if it mean locking them up in hospitals then let do it.

We need to change the culture we are in but until we do it nothing will be done.

We can argue about how we would have handled it but if we have it where we control the path of the shooter then we can have a better chance of stopping the mass shooting at a school…

 

[eagle1462010]

Flip desk as a shield is what I teach and that everything is a weapon and what that little girl did was smart and saved her life when she wiped blood all over her.

You are correct every teacher and student need to be trained and I am thinking we need Israeli training for them…

The issue is we can’t count on local authorities to do what is needed.

We have people scuffing at automatic lockdown on doors because they view it as a prison but our schools are minimum security prisons already so let do it correctly…

What need to change in schools:

1. A Central Control that will lock the rooms down.

2. The inside of the glass room should have shutters that roll down over the windows and door.

3. All teachers and students to be trained in what to do and that mean flipping the desks and using them as shields.

4. Shotgun with bean bag ammo along with mace should be used and Bear spray or even a loud can horn to blow so you can distract the shooter.

5. Never count on the local authorities because they lack the proper training and shouldn’t be counted on.

Final note in this response:

What has happened will happen again, so let work on those things along with getting the mentally insane the mental health they are needed and if it mean locking them up in hospitals then let do it.

We need to change the culture we are in but until we do it nothing will be done.

We can argue about how we would have handled it but if we have it where we control the path of the shooter then we can have a better chance of stopping the mass shooting at a school…

I agree with most of that..............auto locking down could actually aid the shooter after he gets in.......

I would rather have a way for chidren to get out the windows so easy to open from the inside......Then maybe they could have escaped as the shooter was in the next room. Not to mention they could have gotten police in the room through the window.

Everything else for some means of defense should be considered. I got attacked on a thread for saying use hot water the other day.......lmao

He stated hey dude wait for the water to boil before you shoot me......mocking me. I was giving basic examples of ANYTHING can be used to defend.......What if they were in the teachers lounge and got attacked and their are 2 COFFEE POTS with hot coffee..............While it's a long shot.........Throw that coffee at the guy at least instead of kneeling down.

Anything............I repeat anything can be used as a weapon......Time to teach them how to think outside the box.

 

[SweetSue92]

Maybe a deserved prosecution will give teachers/school officials pause before willingly compromising the security of their schools.

That said current school security is a joke and unless doors/movement are controlled it will remain a joke.

No it will not give them pause. Not one of us will pause as we file our termination and retirement notices.

 

[SweetSue92]

I agree with most of that..............auto locking down could actually aid the shooter after he gets in.......

I would rather have a way for chidren to get out the windows so easy to open from the inside......Then maybe they could have escaped as the shooter was in the next room. Not to mention they could have gotten police in the room through the window.

Everything else for some means of defense should be considered. I got attacked on a thread for saying use hot water the other day.......lmao

He stated hey dude wait for the water to boil before you shoot me......mocking me. I was giving basic examples of ANYTHING can be used to defend.......What if they were in the teachers lounge and got attacked and their are 2 COFFEE POTS with hot coffee..............While it's a long shot.........Throw that coffee at the guy at least instead of kneeling down.

Anything............I repeat anything can be used as a weapon......Time to teach them how to think outside the box.

Sadly.....

Our student are trained to do this. Counter with whatever you have. I pointed out things in my room you could throw at the shooters head that would at least throw him off.....in my field I have some good stuff.

Of course the idea is just to throw them off long enough for the cops to arrive. Not an hour.

 

[1srelluc]

No it will not give them pause. Not one of us will pause as we file our termination and retirement notices.

 

[JoeB131]

Would it have been more acceptable if he went old school jihadi and strapped himself with an explosive?

Look, I've never owed a gun in my life, never touched one, and I agree with you, he shouldn't have possessed a gun. However, you aren't going to have any fool proof system that handles all the deranged, especially when they come from a broken home and lack resources.

I was in the army for 11 years and touched a lot of guns. And some guns plain old SHOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE TO CIVILIANS.

In Canada in the last few years, we have had 22 people killed by a madman in one attack in N.S. This was a guy who LOVED the police. Even bought replica gear and vehicles out of admiration. He was a dentist FFS.

But that's the point, these incidents are RARE in Canada, which doesn't have total gun bans like the UK and Japan, where they are even rarer. We've had two of these in less than 10 days.

We've had mass killings in Toronto on the Danforth with guns by a terrorist, we've had a cretin run over many people with a van etc. A storming of parliament by a madman with an ak, resulting in murder (and it could have been much worse for than PM Harper). This, from a little shyte nation of 35M people and strict gun laws.

The difference between now and 50 years ago is social media and the general lack of morals and community that helps prevent murders. Yes, even in Chicago, NY and the like, I say "it takes a village to raise a child". A murderer must pay the price, but prevention can save lives before nuts go wild. Why focus on punishment alone when prevention is cheaper and more effective?

The difference between now and 50 years ago is that government and the gun industry was responsible. Even Ronald Reagan signed common sense gun laws. Today we have a gun industry that seems keen on providing as many bad actors with guns as possible, to convince everyone else they need one.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sadly.....

Our student are trained to do this. Counter with whatever you have. I pointed out things in my room you could throw at the shooters head that would at least throw him off.....in my field I have some good stuff.

Of course the idea is just to throw them off long enough for the cops to arrive. Not an hour.

Why I mentioned wasp spray. Blinds you. Need medical attention to see properly again. Hard to shoot when you can't see.

Gives people time to escape or attack.

A pkp bottle has a range of 15 to 20 feet. Shoots a chemical powder. Will make them gag. will temporary blind them as well.........If they are wearing a face covering the powder would still cover it........and they would breathe it in........That might be enough time for you to hit that asshole in the balls with the metal cylinder.

 

[eagle1462010]

She is not the enemy bro.............Your attacking teachers for an open door instead of the perv killer is noted.

Guy would have just shot the damned lock off anyway.........In regards to teachers leaving.........I don't want to lose teachers like Sue........but they feel attacked as a whole for the acts of some wacked ones.......

Sometimes a sniper is needed and not a flame thrower.

 

[1srelluc]

I was in the army for 11 years and touched a lot of guns. And some guns plain old SHOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE TO CIVILIANS.




But that's the point, these incidents are RARE in Canada, which doesn't have total gun bans like the UK and Japan, where they are even rarer. We've had two of these in less than 10 days.





The difference between now and 50 years ago is that government and the gun industry was responsible. Even Ronald Reagan signed common sense gun laws. Today we have a gun industry that seems keen on providing as many bad actors with guns as possible, to convince everyone else they need one.

Yeah, you are the same dumb fucks that take a fixed ten round SKS mag and weld on a post to the follower to limit it to five rounds.....That's some real retarded shit right there.

 

[1srelluc]

She is not the enemy bro.............Your attacking teachers for an open door instead of the perv killer is noted.

Guy would have just shot the damned lock off anyway.........In regards to teachers leaving.........I don't want to lose teachers like Sue........but they feel attacked as a whole for the acts of some wacked ones.......

Sometimes a sniper is needed and not a flame thrower.

She walks like a duck and talks like a duck so that pretty much narrows it down. As far as leaving if she does not like/want enhanced security and the responsibilities involved with it then, yeah, bye.

Anyway YOUR logic is severely flawed. Who is to say he would have "shot the lock off" if unable to gain access at that particular door but just moved on to the next one looking for the path of least resistance?

Even if he was OUTSIDE trying to shoot the lock or hinges police units were already responding so any extra time he spent OUTSIDE the building INCREASED the chances of a OUTSIDE engagement. Looking at the reported timeline I really like those odds but no, he just waltzed right in due to negligence.

I don't know, perhaps it was a administrator that told the teacher to prop open the door open for some reason but those facts damn sure need to come out and someone needs to be held responsible for their actions.

 

[eagle1462010]

Anyway YOUR logic is severely flawed. Who is to say he would have "shot the lock off" if unable to gain access at that particular door but just moved on to the next one looking for the path of least resistance?

Who said it.............Well I did. If he wants in then he will get in.............So saying if the door is locked he would have went somewhere else is flawed logic. Back at you.

She walks like a duck and talks like a duck so that pretty much narrows it down. As far as leaving if she does not like/want enhanced security and the responsibilities involved with it then, yeah, bye.

I have issues with the stop attacking all teachers too..........we have every right to call out abuses where they occur.............she feels attacked by parents and maybe she has reason to be that way...........I don't know.............perhaps she has had parents threaten her at PTA..........I DON'T KNOW THAT AND NEITHER DO YOU.

Even if he was OUTSIDE trying to shoot the lock or hinges police units were already responding so any extra time he spent OUTSIDE the building INCREASED the chances of a OUTSIDE engagement. Looking at the reported timeline I really like those odds but no, he just waltzed right in due to negligence.

What if games are kids games..........You are trying to place judgement on a locked door over a maniac with a gun..............No dice...........we disagree there.

I don't know, perhaps it was a administrator that told the teacher to prop open the door open for some reason but those facts damn sure need to come out and someone needs to be held responsible for their actions.

Yawn.............the one responsible is dead...........Now we can ask why the hell they waited 1 hour and 15 minutes to breech.

That is the main point of this thread.........not blame teachers over a door.

 

[1srelluc]

Who said it.............Well I did. If he wants in then he will get in.............So saying if the door is locked he would have went somewhere else is flawed logic. Back at you.


I have issues with the stop attacking all teachers too..........we have every right to call out abuses where they occur.............she feels attacked by parents and maybe she has reason to be that way...........I don't know.............perhaps she has had parents threaten her at PTA..........I DON'T KNOW THAT AND NEITHER DO YOU.


What if games are kids games..........You are trying to place judgement on a locked door over a maniac with a gun..............No dice...........we disagree there.


Yawn.............the one responsible is dead...........Now we can ask why the hell they waited 1 hour and 15 minutes to breech.

That is the main point of this thread.........not blame teachers over a door.

Yeah there's a "door" thread now so go ahead and post your flawed logic there.

 

[eagle1462010]

Yeah there's a "door" thread now so go ahead and post your flawed logic there.

You do it............what is your purpose here...........To divert to a DOOR THREAD when the police waited outside for 1 hour and 15 minutes while children were being slaughtered.

Screw your DOOR DID IT BS.........

 

[JoeB131]

Yawn.............the one responsible is dead...........Now we can ask why the hell they waited 1 hour and 15 minutes to breech.

That is the main point of this thread.........not blame teachers over a door.

How about blaming the gun store for selling this kid a gun.

 

[eagle1462010]

How about blaming the gun store for selling this kid a gun.

How about NO?

Same tactics.............Your tactics are in my signature.