Plenty of "Good Guys with Guns" But 6 Injured Anyway

[eflatminor]

How do you get the right spring tension?

Well, that is tricky. You have to have a really special tool for that...a pair of needle nose pliers! You know, the kind with the little cutting tool at the pivot point. Then, you have to...wait for it....cut the spring until it has enough tension to load the next round, but not so much tension that you can't load all the rounds the magazine will hold.

REALLY complicated, I know...

 

[WinterBorn]

I

Then your saying capacity does matter. Make up your mind.

Am I? What I have been saying all along is that the ability to rapidly reload a semi-auto negates the advantage of banning larger magazines.

You have maintained that the smaller magazines require more frequent reloads which allow the shooter to be overwhelmed or allows for a greater chance that he will drop a magazine or other mistake.

I point out that the same things you hope for in the mass shooting can easily happen to someone defending themselves.

I have not wavered in my argument. Also, while I am confident in my ability to reload, I am against the gov't legislating what my fellow gun owners can or cannot have. Especially when it is based on such dubious evidence.

Yes you are as I have shown several times.

I have posted a study that defense on average is 2 shots. You have posted a video of a woman defending against 3 thugs with approximately 4 shots. I have heard no example of anyone needing a hi cap magazine for defense. There are lots of examples of mass shooters using hi cap magazines.

You posted a study showing averages. I did not see it say that defensive shootings never involve more shots. I have also stated that the situation in which more shots are needed to hold off attackers until the authorities arrive is easily possible.

Yes, there are plenty of examples of mass shootings involving high capacity magazines. But of all of those, I only saw one example of the reload being the weak point in the shooters assault. There are more examples of civilian shooters taking down the shooter than the reload being how he was taken down.

I also pointed out that the mass shooting, as you seem focused on, is only 1% of the gun related deaths. Yet you insist on placing regulations on law abiding gun owners (approx 63 million) based on the idea that it would reduce the number of fatalities. And yet you have no way of knowing what the reduction might actually be.

 

[WinterBorn]

And in your next post mistakes happen? Your arguing both sides, very dishonest.

Not dishonest at all. I have been consistent and straight forward in this entire discussion.

I can reload my pistol in less than 2 seconds. That does not mean that a larger capacity magazine has no use to any shooter. And I disagree with legislating the choice away in the hopes that the next mass shooter will drop a magazine.

You have said capacity doesn't matter because people can reload so fast. Then you say it does matter because mistakes happen. Yes that's very honest debate. sorry you fail

No failure at all. You are focused on a legislation that will effect a very large number of legal gun owners. And you HOPE that it will reduce the number of deaths, but have no way of showing by how many. And you ignore all other solutions, preferring to hang on to this "you are arguing both sides" nonsense.

 

[Brain357]

Not dishonest at all. I have been consistent and straight forward in this entire discussion.

I can reload my pistol in less than 2 seconds. That does not mean that a larger capacity magazine has no use to any shooter. And I disagree with legislating the choice away in the hopes that the next mass shooter will drop a magazine.

You have said capacity doesn't matter because people can reload so fast. Then you say it does matter because mistakes happen. Yes that's very honest debate. sorry you fail

No failure at all. You are focused on a legislation that will effect a very large number of legal gun owners. And you HOPE that it will reduce the number of deaths, but have no way of showing by how many. And you ignore all other solutions, preferring to hang on to this "you are arguing both sides" nonsense.

Then pick a side now. Does capacity matter?

 

[Brain357]

Still no response. Telling indeed. Let's try it one more time, just for shit's and giggles. Okay gun grabbers, tell us:

What exactly makes you think these "shooters" will obey your magazine limit law...or any law that restricts the ability of law abiding citizens to defend themselves?

I really would love to see someone address this question DIRECTLY.

Not holding my breath...

They will become hard to get

They will be harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to get. So, once again, I ask, what makes you think criminals won't have them? There are MILLIONS out there, they're VERY easy to make. You'll only be ensuring the bad guys have the tools that you find so evil, while the good guys don't. It's as though you're rooting for the criminals! How crazy is that???

and not often used just like machine guns.

Not often used by good guys. Bad guys all over the world use them, even where civilian firearm ownership is banned. That's the point.

You said capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast, so why would criminals bother with them?

Because not everyone can change a magazine as fast as a competition shooter, as YOUR previous post demonstrated. Oh the irony.

So, one more time, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK CRIMINALS WILL OBEY YOUR MAGAZINE LAWS?

You already posted that capacity doesn't matter because it's so quick and easy to reload. Why do you care if criminals have them?

 

[Brain357]

How do you get the right spring tension?

Well, that is tricky. You have to have a really special tool for that...a pair of needle nose pliers! You know, the kind with the little cutting tool at the pivot point. Then, you have to...wait for it....cut the spring until it has enough tension to load the next round, but not so much tension that you can't load all the rounds the magazine will hold.

REALLY complicated, I know...

Very scientific, I like your chances for jams. Where do you get this spring that fits your magazine?

 

[WinterBorn]

You have said capacity doesn't matter because people can reload so fast. Then you say it does matter because mistakes happen. Yes that's very honest debate. sorry you fail

No failure at all. You are focused on a legislation that will effect a very large number of legal gun owners. And you HOPE that it will reduce the number of deaths, but have no way of showing by how many. And you ignore all other solutions, preferring to hang on to this "you are arguing both sides" nonsense.

Then pick a side now. Does capacity matter?

I have far more concerns about intrusive legislation based on vague information than I do about magazine capacity.

For me, magazine capacity is not an issue. But that does not mean I will support legislation to ban hi cap magazines.

I do not own a rifle that fits the current political definition of "assault rifle". But I do not support instituting a ban on assault weapons.

Just because I do not need or own one (hi cap magazine or "assault rifle) does not mean I will not fight against legislation to ban them.

 

[eflatminor]

They will become hard to get

They will be harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to get. So, once again, I ask, what makes you think criminals won't have them? There are MILLIONS out there, they're VERY easy to make. You'll only be ensuring the bad guys have the tools that you find so evil, while the good guys don't. It's as though you're rooting for the criminals! How crazy is that???



Not often used by good guys. Bad guys all over the world use them, even where civilian firearm ownership is banned. That's the point.

You said capacity doesn't matter because you can reload so fast, so why would criminals bother with them?

Because not everyone can change a magazine as fast as a competition shooter, as YOUR previous post demonstrated. Oh the irony.

So, one more time, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK CRIMINALS WILL OBEY YOUR MAGAZINE LAWS?

You already posted that capacity doesn't matter because it's so quick and easy to reload. Why do you care if criminals have them?

No, I posted that for a skilled shooter, a mag change is a VERY quick process.

So, stop ducking the question. Answer DIRECTLY if you can, what makes you think criminals will obey your magazine law?

Why can't you address with specificity that which you so strongly advocate?

 

[Brain357]

No failure at all. You are focused on a legislation that will effect a very large number of legal gun owners. And you HOPE that it will reduce the number of deaths, but have no way of showing by how many. And you ignore all other solutions, preferring to hang on to this "you are arguing both sides" nonsense.

Then pick a side now. Does capacity matter?

I have far more concerns about intrusive legislation based on vague information than I do about magazine capacity.

For me, magazine capacity is not an issue. But that does not mean I will support legislation to ban hi cap magazines.

I do not own a rifle that fits the current political definition of "assault rifle". But I do not support instituting a ban on assault weapons.

Just because I do not need or own one (hi cap magazine or "assault rifle) does not mean I will not fight against legislation to ban them.

So it does matter or it doesn't? You answer like a politician. Pick a side flopper.

 

[eflatminor]

How do you get the right spring tension?

Well, that is tricky. You have to have a really special tool for that...a pair of needle nose pliers! You know, the kind with the little cutting tool at the pivot point. Then, you have to...wait for it....cut the spring until it has enough tension to load the next round, but not so much tension that you can't load all the rounds the magazine will hold.

REALLY complicated, I know...

Very scientific, I like your chances for jams. Where do you get this spring that fits your magazine?

A piece of wire.

 

[Brain357]

They will be harder for LAW ABIDING citizens to get. So, once again, I ask, what makes you think criminals won't have them? There are MILLIONS out there, they're VERY easy to make. You'll only be ensuring the bad guys have the tools that you find so evil, while the good guys don't. It's as though you're rooting for the criminals! How crazy is that???



Not often used by good guys. Bad guys all over the world use them, even where civilian firearm ownership is banned. That's the point.



Because not everyone can change a magazine as fast as a competition shooter, as YOUR previous post demonstrated. Oh the irony.

So, one more time, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK CRIMINALS WILL OBEY YOUR MAGAZINE LAWS?

You already posted that capacity doesn't matter because it's so quick and easy to reload. Why do you care if criminals have them?

No, I posted that for a skilled shooter, a mag change is a VERY quick process.

No, stop ducking the question. Answer DIRECTLY if you can, what makes you think criminals will obey your magazine law?

Why can't you address with specificity that which you so strongly advocate?

So capacity does matter then? I want to be clear in what side your on then we can continue.

 

[eflatminor]

You already posted that capacity doesn't matter because it's so quick and easy to reload. Why do you care if criminals have them?

No, I posted that for a skilled shooter, a mag change is a VERY quick process.

No, stop ducking the question. Answer DIRECTLY if you can, what makes you think criminals will obey your magazine law?

Why can't you address with specificity that which you so strongly advocate?

So capacity does matter then? I want to be clear in what side your on then we can continue.

I never said that. I want as much capacity as I can get because however fast I can change a magazine, it still takes some amount of time. I see no reason to be at a disadvantage no matter what.

Now, you still haven't answered the question. You obviously think capacity matters, so tell me, what makes you think criminals will obey your laws to limit that capacity?

Please, be specific.

 

[Brain357]

Well, that is tricky. You have to have a really special tool for that...a pair of needle nose pliers! You know, the kind with the little cutting tool at the pivot point. Then, you have to...wait for it....cut the spring until it has enough tension to load the next round, but not so much tension that you can't load all the rounds the magazine will hold.

REALLY complicated, I know...

Very scientific, I like your chances for jams. Where do you get this spring that fits your magazine?

A piece of wire.

Oh so now your making it from wire yourself. What is the proper hardness of the wire to get the correct tension? How will you bend it to get consistent tension to avoid jams? You should make one and document the process.

 

[eflatminor]

Well, that is tricky. You have to have a really special tool for that...a pair of needle nose pliers! You know, the kind with the little cutting tool at the pivot point. Then, you have to...wait for it....cut the spring until it has enough tension to load the next round, but not so much tension that you can't load all the rounds the magazine will hold.

REALLY complicated, I know...

Very scientific, I like your chances for jams. Where do you get this spring that fits your magazine?

A piece of wire.

Wait...do we need to outlaw springs now?

 

[Brain357]

No, I posted that for a skilled shooter, a mag change is a VERY quick process.

No, stop ducking the question. Answer DIRECTLY if you can, what makes you think criminals will obey your magazine law?

Why can't you address with specificity that which you so strongly advocate?

So capacity does matter then? I want to be clear in what side your on then we can continue.

I never said that. I want as much capacity as I can get because however fast I can change a magazine, it still takes some amount of time. I see no reason to be at a disadvantage no matter what.

Now, you still haven't answered the question. You obviously think capacity matters, so tell me, what makes you think criminals will obey your laws to limit that capacity?

Please, be specific.

So then capacity does matter right? You just argued that it does.

 

[eflatminor]

Very scientific, I like your chances for jams. Where do you get this spring that fits your magazine?

A piece of wire.

Oh so now your making it from wire yourself. What is the proper hardness of the wire to get the correct tension? How will you bend it to get consistent tension to avoid jams? You should make one and document the process.

Holly shit...now you want to regulate ownership of pieces of wire.

My goodness.

 

[eflatminor]

So capacity does matter then? I want to be clear in what side your on then we can continue.

I never said that. I want as much capacity as I can get because however fast I can change a magazine, it still takes some amount of time. I see no reason to be at a disadvantage no matter what.

Now, you still haven't answered the question. You obviously think capacity matters, so tell me, what makes you think criminals will obey your laws to limit that capacity?

Please, be specific.

So then capacity does matter right? You just argued that it does.

Let's say is really, really, really does, for sake of argument.

Now, answer the fucking question, if you can.

 

[Brain357]

A piece of wire.

Oh so now your making it from wire yourself. What is the proper hardness of the wire to get the correct tension? How will you bend it to get consistent tension to avoid jams? You should make one and document the process.

Holly shit...now you want to regulate ownership of pieces of wire.

My goodness.

Nope, you said that not me. I want criminals making magazines because they will jam.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Do you have any evidence of that, or are you just inventing things again, as you have done with what you have claimed that I said?

A simple link will do. I have no problem admitting you are right if you have some back up for your claim.

It would not surprise me if their insurance carriers required it. I just want you to show some proof besides your own claims.

I went to the "Great American" gun show in Scottsdale AZ. and EVERYONE was carrying a gun.

Zeke is just making shit up that he thinks will sound good.

 

[Brain357]

I never said that. I want as much capacity as I can get because however fast I can change a magazine, it still takes some amount of time. I see no reason to be at a disadvantage no matter what.

Now, you still haven't answered the question. You obviously think capacity matters, so tell me, what makes you think criminals will obey your laws to limit that capacity?

Please, be specific.

So then capacity does matter right? You just argued that it does.

Let's say is really, really, really does, for sake of argument.

Now, answer the fucking question, if you can.

Like I already said, they will become hard to get and used less and less. Just like machine guns.