Planned Parenthood Exposed - New Undercover Video

[Steerpike]

I disagree. If a child falls pregnant, only she knows what is best.

This is such a ridiculous statement on its face that I can only assume (and hope) you have no kids. It shows a stunning lack of touch with reality.

 

[Steerpike]

Wouldn't the fact that a minor child got pregnant demonstrate that the parents were not being good caretakers of the child to warrant such control over her? .

No I don't think so. If that were the case, then the only 'good caretakers' would be ones who kept their child under constant surveillance, which is actually a 'bad caretaker.'

 

[Silence]

Wouldn't the fact that a minor child got pregnant demonstrate that the parents were not being good caretakers of the child to warrant such control over her? A 13 year old is old enough to decide for herself if she wants an abortion and if she wants her parents to know. Children are not private property.

so what I see you saying is that if heaven forbid your 14 year old niece, who you admit is on the verge of having sex any minute, were to go out and get pregnant that would demonstrate your sister's lack of good parenting skills, right?

I will say I agree with you, children are not priviate property but by law I am responsible for anything my daughter does. If she damages property I pay for it. If she skips school too much and I can't make her go to school I go to jail. I am legally bound to her until the age of 18 by law. So yes, I DO have a say in her well being and while I don't own her I certainly have a stake in what happens to her.

you do realize that there ARE in fact medical complications that arise from having an abortion, even today. what if this child hemorages and the parents have no clue what is wrong with her? you have to take pain medications following an abortion, should they be able to fill that prescription without their parents consent too even thought it could be a narcotic?

I find it funny that the people who seem to think I sound condescending are the same people who think children should be allowed to have sex unfettered by their parents. The REALITY is 12, 13, 14, and even 15 year old KIDS should NOT be having sex to begin with and if they are they shouldn't be able to obtain a medical procedure that can have risks and complications. **** you can't even give blood until you're 18 in the state I live in!

Do I think there should be safe guards for girls who are in situations where parental notice puts them in danger of abuse? hell yes I do. In fact I think there should be an immediate proceeding that can waive that parental notice as long as there is another responsible adult ready to assist that child should she become ill or have complications.

 

[Steerpike]

so what I see you saying is that if heaven forbid your 14 year old niece, who you admit is on the verge of having sex any minute, were to go out and get pregnant you'd be okay with her getting an abortion without her mother's knowledge OR consent.

you do realize that there ARE in fact medical complications that arise from having an abortion, even today. what if this child hemorages and the parents have no clue what is wrong with her? you have to take pain medications following an abortion, should they be able to fill that prescription without their parents consent too even thought it could be a narcotic?

I find it funny that the people who seem to think I sound condescending are the same people who think children should be allowed to have sex unfettered by their parents. The REALITY is 12, 13, 14, and even 15 year old KIDS should NOT be having sex to begin with and if they are they shouldn't be able to obtain a medical procedure that can have risks and complications. **** you can't even give blood until you're 18 in the state I live in!

Do I think there should be safe guards for girls who are in situations where parental notice puts them in danger of abuse? hell yes I do. In fact I think there should be an immediate proceeding that can waive that parental notice as long as there is another responsible adult ready to assist that child should she become ill or have complications.

People are nuts when it comes to dogma, Silence. You don't see people rallying around the cause to give blood at 13, or to have other medical procedures, with the knowledge of parents of the child. Change the issue to abortion and all reason and logic is tossed out the window and replaced with dogma. If you ask me, the extremists on both sides of the abortion issue are delusional in their views of reality.

 

[Ravi]

This is such a ridiculous statement on its face that I can only assume (and hope) you have no kids. It shows a stunning lack of touch with reality.

I think she has a point. Parents should no more be able to force their children to give birth than they should be able to force them to abort.

 

[Silence]

People are nuts when it comes to dogma, Silence. You don't see people rallying around the cause to give blood at 13, or to have other medical procedures, with the knowledge of parents of the child. Change the issue to abortion and all reason and logic is tossed out the window and replaced with dogma. If you ask me, the extremists on both sides of the abortion issue are delusional in their views of reality.

that ain't no shit steer. My daughter can't get anything on her body pierced without my consent because there are risks involved. She can't get a tattoo either and neither one of these procedures is as dangerous or potentially traumatic as abortion.

I'm pro-choice, always have been. I believe that women should have access to safe abortions if they so choose. BUT I think a CHILD should have a guardian to look after them in the event they have this procedure done because it IS a medical procedure that is invasive and can lead to health complications.

I think she has a point. Parents should no more be able to force their children to give birth than they should be able to force them to abort.

I agree but a child needs a guardian to look after them following the abortion if they choose to have one. Optimally a parent would consider the young girls wishes and allow her to make her own decision, whether that be to proceed with the pregnancy or not. However, some girls choose abortion not because they don't want to have the baby but because they feel they have no support to take care of it afterwards (which is another reason they shouldn't be having sex ).

 

[Steerpike]

I think she has a point. Parents should no more be able to force their children to give birth than they should be able to force them to abort.

I think you should go back and read my posts properly, as should Makedde.

And further, if you look at my quote (which you in turn quoted) you'll see I was referring specifically to the categorical statement that ONLY the child knows what is best. That's nonsense on its face.

 

[Ravi]

I think you should go back and read my posts properly, as should Makedde.

And further, if you look at my quote (which you in turn quoted) you'll see I was referring specifically to the categorical statement that ONLY the child knows what is best. That's nonsense on its face.

Okay, just checking.

 

[Steerpike]

that ain't no shit steer. My daughter can't get anything on her body pierced without my consent because there are risks involved. She can't get a tattoo either and neither one of these procedures is as dangerous or potentially traumatic as abortion.

I'm pro-choice, always have been. I believe that women should have access to safe abortions if they so choose. BUT I think a CHILD should have a guardian to look after them in the event they have this procedure done because it IS a medical procedure that is invasive and can lead to health complications.

...

I agree but a child needs a guardian to look after them following the abortion if they choose to have one. Optimally a parent would consider the young girls wishes and allow her to make her own decision, whether that be to proceed with the pregnancy or not. However, some girls choose abortion not because they don't want to have the baby but because they feel they have no support to take care of it afterwards (which is another reason they shouldn't be having sex ).

You're far too reasonable for these forums. I demand that you delete your registration at once and stop all discourse on the internet. Or at least in this thread.

 

[Steerpike]

Okay, just checking.

Ah...got it.

Ravi maybe you have a theory on why the abortion issue makes this issue so dogmatic. In most other cases, and in far, far less serious cases, people could care less about the parents having knowledge, but when you change the issue to 'abortion' all reason is lost.

 

[catzmeow]

actually it's just the opposite. I didn't have decent parents. I basically raised myself getting a job to support myself when I was 16 because my father was a drunk and my mother was dying of cancer. They never offered me any guidance or wisdom on the ways of the world. I learned about sex at 15 when my sister (who had just turned 17) gave birth to a child none of knew she was expecting. She hid her pregnancy for 8 months, got no prenatal care and took a great risk with not only her life but the life of my nephew.

I have a teenager, I have a nephew who is 25, who has a girlfriend who just turned 21, and they have a 5 month old daughter. I see how they struggle, that's neither prejudice or wishful thinking.

This is precisely why I am so candid with my daughter about sex. I was raised in a strict Southern Baptist home. My parents never talked to me about sex. Everything I knew about sex, I learned from my friends.

My parents never gave me a bit of advice about handling pressure from boys to have sex, using birth control, how to set my boundaries, or dealing with the complex emotions that sex stirred up in me. Nor did they even present masturbation as an option. The sum total of my knowledge about sex, as a 16-18-20 year old was that it was evil/wrong. Trust me when I say that doesn't at all prepare a young person to deal with being a teenager and handling sexual impulses.

I've also worked professionally for the past 18 years WITH TEENAGERS.

No, I'm not a teen, but I've worked with underprivileged, drug-addicted, sexually-abused, pregnant, and gang-involved teenagers. I've seen the emotional/financial/familial/educational impact of unplanned pregnancies and abortions on my clients.

So, stow the "you're an adult, you can't possibly understand."

 

[Ravi]

Ah...got it.

Ravi maybe you have a theory on why the abortion issue makes this issue so dogmatic. In most other cases, and in far, far less serious cases, people could care less about the parents having knowledge, but when you change the issue to 'abortion' all reason is lost.

Because bearing a child is like nothing else and forcing the choice to have one, or not have one as the case may be, is as about as wrong headed and controlling as it gets.

 

[Steerpike]

Because bearing a child is like nothing else and forcing the choice to have one, or not have one as the case may be, is as about as wrong headed and controlling as it gets.

Again, not to belabor the point, but you aren't answering the question. You are changing the question and answering the one you want to answer. If you can find the word 'force' or 'consent' in any of my posts in this thread, please link to it. Otherwise, maybe you can answer the knowledge question

 

[Ravi]

Again, not to belabor the point, but you aren't answering the question. You are changing the question and answering the one you want to answer. If you can find the word 'force' or 'consent' in any of my posts in this thread, please link to it. Otherwise, maybe you can answer the knowledge question

Perhaps I don't understand the question, I thought I had answered it. I wasn't trying to imply that you were forcing anyone to do anything.

 

[catzmeow]

Because bearing a child is like nothing else and forcing the choice to have one, or not have one as the case may be, is as about as wrong headed and controlling as it gets.

As a mother, until my child is 18, it is MY LEGAL JOB to make decisions in her best interests. I can be held legally responsible for not doing so. And you propose to strip this responsibility from me in one area, only?

Tell me...if she chooses to have the child, who will be legally responsible for any expenses resulting from that decision? And, if my daughter chooses to abort, who will be legally responsible for medical decisions springing from that decision?

 

[Silence]

No, I'm not a teen, but I've worked with underprivileged, drug-addicted, sexually-abused, pregnant, and gang-involved teenagers. I've seen the emotional/financial/familial/educational impact of unplanned pregnancies and abortions on my clients.

So, stow the "you're an adult, you can't possibly understand."

My daughter has never once said to me, "you can't possibly understand". Thank God she's smart enough to realize that I DO understand because I HAVE been there.

 

[Amanda]

So, stow the "you're an adult, you can't possibly understand."

Of course you know that was never my point, it was an example of the absurdity in saying I couldn't understand a parental point of view. It was an example of the absurdity of an argument that rests on the logic of "Because I said so". As long as we're straight on that I think we're on the same page.

 

[Silence]

Of course you know that was never my point, it was an example of the absurdity in saying I couldn't understand a parental point of view. It was an example of the absurdity of an argument that rests on the logic of "Because I said so". As long as we're straight on that I think we're on the same page.

you asked when you would feel differently, I gave you my opinion when that change in attitude would occur. You didn't like the answer so you've tried to turn it around on me like I said something so completely outlandish and out of touch with reality that you find it offensive on it's very face.

I don't know, perhaps you won't change your mind when you have kids. Perhaps you'll be that parent who lets their 4 year old stay up until all hours of the night and eat cake and ice cream morning noon and night because it's their choice and you're all about fostering their independence. Perhaps you'll be that parent who lets her 13 or 14 year old daughter date a guy who is 19 or 20 and let him spend the night because after all she's old enough to decide if she wants to have sex.

and that's okay. I'm sure there will be a friend of your child's out there with a mother who will set boundaries and limitations for your child and you'll be left wondering why your kid is always at her friend's house and not home since she has so much freedom at home.

Kids WANT and NEED boundaries. If they have no boundaries they have no boundaries to test and figure out what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable. Society has rules and it's the parents first job to teach kids about those rules and the way they do that is by governing their behavior and actions while they are still too young to deal with the consequences of the choices they make.

 

[Steerpike]

A parental perspective is one of the things in life that you can't fully understand until you are a parent. That's the reality of it. I didn't like hearing it when I was younger, but once I had kids of my own I realized it was quite true.

Of course, that doesn't invalidate anyone's thoughts on the various issues. It is nevertheless true.

 

[catzmeow]

A parental perspective is one of the things in life that you can't fully understand until you are a parent. That's the reality of it. I didn't like hearing it when I was younger, but once I had kids of my own I realized it was quite true.

Of course, that doesn't invalidate anyone's thoughts on the various issues. It is nevertheless true.

It is an entirely different perspective that comes when you are the one who carries the entire burden of being responsible for another person. Even my 40-year-old childless boyfriend doesn't totally understand what it means to be a parent. At least he is wise enough to admit it, though.