Petition to split California into six states gets green light.
- Thread starter O.R.I.O.N
- Start date
Silhouette
Gold Member
- Jul 15, 2013
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Good one..lol
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
Oh we certainly do.But California takes the cake there.
you do realize that one of the big reasons for Cal. demise is the millions of wackos from the other States moving in here over the last 30-40 years and bringing their failed ideas with them and voting many of those "ideas" in over the years....right?....
O.R.I.O.N
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- Jan 31, 2014
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- #24
Guess ^ has never heard of Baja Arizona eh? Twit.
I have heard old timers talk about that. How California was a great place 60 years ago etc..Would have been great to see it then around the time John Wayne and Walt Disney were starting up.
Statistikhengst
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #25
It is interesting, but highly unlikely that it will pass. Nonetheless, thank you for starting the thread, [MENTION=47163]O.R.I.O.N[/MENTION].
I would like to submit two very plausible reasons for WHY this petition was made:
1.) At the beginning of our republic, with the first census, our Union's largest state at that time (Virginia) was just about 10 times bigger than the Union's smallest state at that time (Delaware).
Today, our nation's largest state (California) is 61 times larger than our nation's smallest state (Wyoming). Splitting California into 6 states of equal size would mean that each one of those mini-Californias would be now 10 times larger than Wyoming and so, the relationship of 10-1 would be restored, at least in the case of California.
2.) The saying that Texas has a right to seceed is a lie. But, according to the Annexation treaty of, I believe, 1845, Texas has the ongoing right to SPLIT ITSELF into a total of five states, but one of them must still carry the name of Texas. Were Texas to do this, then where he had 2 Senators, we would have 10. But were California to do this, where we currently have 2 Senators, we would have 12. Facit: zero-sum game between the two dreadnaught states of our Union.
I frankly see no reason for either Texas or California to split.
However, California itself has the 12th largest economy in the world. Were California a country, with a population of 38.3 million citizens, it would be either the 34th or 35th largest country in the world - on par with Poland, but again, with the 12th largest economy in the world.
As I said, I am pretty sure that such a petition/proposition will go down in a vote, but I think there are some plausible reasons as to the WHY component of this.
best to you,
-Stat
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION] [MENTION=31258]BDBoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=39072]mamooth[/MENTION] [MENTION=3135]jillian[/MENTION] [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION] [MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION] [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]
Just some nice people I invited to share in the conversation because I do think the information is stimulating and I want to take the partisan bite out of this and just let the numbers speak for themselves. It is highly likely that a number of people both on the Left and the Right would have no problem with their home state of California splitting itself. The question is more of the type: does it do us any good.
I will remind that the last time that a state split itself into two states was during the time of the Civil War, as part of Virginia separated from the Old Dominion and eventually named itself "West Virginia". Did you know that the original proposal was to name the fledgling state "Kanwaha"?
Wolfsister77
Knowledge Is Power
So, adding more Senators to Congress is a good thing? Why 6 States-well, it sure looks to me like a proposal to increase the Republican presence in the Senate with 4 more red states and 2 blue. This will go nowhere. Ungovernable, really? Didn't they just balance their budget?
O.R.I.O.N
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- Jan 31, 2014
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- #27
I did not know that about WV..interesting...would be weird today having a state called Kanwaha.
It is interesting, but highly unlikely that it will pass. Nonetheless, thank you for starting the thread, [MENTION=47163]O.R.I.O.N[/MENTION].
I would like to submit two very plausible reasons for WHY this petition was made:
1.) At the beginning of our republic, with the first census, our Union's largest state at that time (Virginia) was just about 10 times bigger than the Union's smallest state at that time (Delaware).
Today, our nation's largest state (California) is 61 times larger than our nation's smallest state (Wyoming). Splitting California into 6 states of equal size would mean that each one of those mini-Californias would be now 10 times larger than Wyoming and so, the relationship of 10-1 would be restored, at least in the case of California.
2.) The saying that Texas has a right to seceed is a lie. But, according to the Annexation treaty of, I believe, 1845, Texas has the ongoing right to SPLIT ITSELF into a total of five states, but one of them must still carry the name of Texas. Were Texas to do this, then where he had 2 Senators, we would have 10. But were California to do this, where we currently have 2 Senators, we would have 12. Facit: zero-sum game between the two dreadnaught states of our Union.
I frankly see no reason for either Texas or California to split.
However, California itself has the 12th largest economy in the world. Were California a country, with a population of 38.3 million citizens, it would be either the 34th or 35th largest country in the world - on par with Poland, but again, with the 12th largest economy in the world.
As I said, I am pretty sure that such a petition/proposition will go down in a vote, but I think there are some plausible reasons as to the WHY component of this.
best to you,
-Stat
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION] [MENTION=31258]BDBoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=39072]mamooth[/MENTION] [MENTION=3135]jillian[/MENTION] [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION] [MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION] [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]
Just some nice people I invited to share in the conversation because I do think the information is stimulating and I want to take the partisan bite out of this and just let the numbers speak for themselves. It is highly likely that a number of people both on the Left and the Right would have no problem with their home state of California splitting itself. The question is more of the type: does it do us any good.
I will remind that the last time that a state split itself into two states was during the time of the Civil War, as part of Virginia separated from the Old Dominion and eventually named itself "West Virginia". Did you know that the original proposal was to name the fledgling state "Kanwaha"?
PredFan
Diamond Member
I'd like to start a petition to build a fence all along the eastern and northern borders of the state. A fence with NO gates.
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
and it was great in the 70's too....it started changing sometime in the 80's.....imo
Mertex
Cat Lady =^..^=
- Apr 27, 2013
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Yes, the last I heard the Dem Gov has really helped California.....much to the dismay of some.
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
the only places doing well are the richer Counties.....all the others still have 9% UE or higher....those are the ones who are dismayed....
California Counties: California?s unemployment rate by county - Data Desk - Los Angeles Times
Mertex
Cat Lady =^..^=
- Apr 27, 2013
- 26,532
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- 1,445
Your link is a tad old.... unemployment dropped even more in Dec 2013 and is way better in 2014 than it was under Republican Schwarzenegger.
California State Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers
And......
For the first time in years, California is enjoying a revenue surplus.
Governor Jerry Brown released an update on his budget plan for the coming fiscal year.
The state has collected $4.5 billion more in tax revenue than expected.
The stock market and home prices are up, while the unemployment rate is down, which all lead to more revenue for California.
California enjoying a revenue surplus - YCV
Overall, California is doing better.
Statistikhengst
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #33
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
do you think the rates in those Counties has improved in the interim time that those people are jumping for joy?.....lots of farmers in those Counties are Unemployed,especially the ones in Imperial County.....they produce a lot of crops for the Country......the richer coastal areas are the areas doing fine.....the inland areas not so good.....those Counties and the people who live there are part of the State too.....and that "surplus" will get eaten up when they have to pay that huge amount of money to cover the State workers pension fund ....overall the wealthier Counties in California are doing fine....which is the way it always is.....the wealthy get the goodies and the regular guy gets what ever they can spare....
- Moderator
- #35
Why would Republicans oppose this? Simply leave the heavy leftist populations in one state and create 5 states with conservative populations. Simply putting LA and San Fran in one state will do most of that as it is.
I don't think Republicans would be as hurt as you think.
I don't think Republicans would be as hurt as you think.
emilynghiem
Constitutionalist / Universalist
Some ideas from other states:
1. Secession movement in New York pushes for Big Apple to split from Upstate - Washington Times
NY avoiding Congressional issues by keeping the separation within NY remaining a single state for federal purposes. This seems to be based on grouping counties together into two separate entities that are not separate states, but have separate representation, policies and taxing.
2. Hawaii
some of the native Hawaiians are still divided over whether to push for Native Tribal designation WITHIN the state of Hawaii still under US law and governance as other states.
some do not agree, but fear it will be abused to lose equal standing as US citizens. I think if this is done right, they can be physically a US state, but the citizens have their own government within that state representing Hawaiian natives and lineage.
And something I would like to see developed:
3. treating political parties as religious denominations
and setting up their own tithing or taxing for members
going into their own health care or educational policies and programs.
So this can replace the fights over taxes by competing ideologies.
if federal taxes are reserved to just areas where people agree to fund,
then the actual policies and programs could be separated by party.
And keep conflicting policies local and out of higher government.
So my question to the political groupings in these 6 areas:
if major religious denominations don't need to split off and become their own states,
but can operate and fund themselves separately from other religious groups,
why can't political groups or parties operate the same way?
for taxes, if there is a fund for education or health care for each subgroup, then why can't they decide separately how to manage those programs?
can't they organize by affiliation, similar to religious denominations. does it have to be geographically split into separate regions, or can it remain under one state?
1. Secession movement in New York pushes for Big Apple to split from Upstate - Washington Times
NY avoiding Congressional issues by keeping the separation within NY remaining a single state for federal purposes. This seems to be based on grouping counties together into two separate entities that are not separate states, but have separate representation, policies and taxing.
2. Hawaii
some of the native Hawaiians are still divided over whether to push for Native Tribal designation WITHIN the state of Hawaii still under US law and governance as other states.
some do not agree, but fear it will be abused to lose equal standing as US citizens. I think if this is done right, they can be physically a US state, but the citizens have their own government within that state representing Hawaiian natives and lineage.
And something I would like to see developed:
3. treating political parties as religious denominations
and setting up their own tithing or taxing for members
going into their own health care or educational policies and programs.
So this can replace the fights over taxes by competing ideologies.
if federal taxes are reserved to just areas where people agree to fund,
then the actual policies and programs could be separated by party.
And keep conflicting policies local and out of higher government.
So my question to the political groupings in these 6 areas:
if major religious denominations don't need to split off and become their own states,
but can operate and fund themselves separately from other religious groups,
why can't political groups or parties operate the same way?
for taxes, if there is a fund for education or health care for each subgroup, then why can't they decide separately how to manage those programs?
can't they organize by affiliation, similar to religious denominations. does it have to be geographically split into separate regions, or can it remain under one state?
Last edited:
Two Thumbs
Platinum Member
It is interesting, but highly unlikely that it will pass. Nonetheless, thank you for starting the thread, [MENTION=47163]O.R.I.O.N[/MENTION].
I would like to submit two very plausible reasons for WHY this petition was made:
1.) At the beginning of our republic, with the first census, our Union's largest state at that time (Virginia) was just about 10 times bigger than the Union's smallest state at that time (Delaware).
Today, our nation's largest state (California) is 61 times larger than our nation's smallest state (Wyoming). Splitting California into 6 states of equal size would mean that each one of those mini-Californias would be now 10 times larger than Wyoming and so, the relationship of 10-1 would be restored, at least in the case of California.
2.) The saying that Texas has a right to seceed is a lie. But, according to the Annexation treaty of, I believe, 1845, Texas has the ongoing right to SPLIT ITSELF into a total of five states, but one of them must still carry the name of Texas. Were Texas to do this, then where he had 2 Senators, we would have 10. But were California to do this, where we currently have 2 Senators, we would have 12. Facit: zero-sum game between the two dreadnaught states of our Union.
I frankly see no reason for either Texas or California to split.
However, California itself has the 12th largest economy in the world. Were California a country, with a population of 38.3 million citizens, it would be either the 34th or 35th largest country in the world - on par with Poland, but again, with the 12th largest economy in the world.
As I said, I am pretty sure that such a petition/proposition will go down in a vote, but I think there are some plausible reasons as to the WHY component of this.
best to you,
-Stat
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION] [MENTION=31258]BDBoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=39072]mamooth[/MENTION] [MENTION=3135]jillian[/MENTION] [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION] [MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION] [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]
Just some nice people I invited to share in the conversation because I do think the information is stimulating and I want to take the partisan bite out of this and just let the numbers speak for themselves. It is highly likely that a number of people both on the Left and the Right would have no problem with their home state of California splitting itself. The question is more of the type: does it do us any good.
I will remind that the last time that a state split itself into two states was during the time of the Civil War, as part of Virginia separated from the Old Dominion and eventually named itself "West Virginia". Did you know that the original proposal was to name the fledgling state "Kanwaha"?
a few years ago, they had the 8th largest
Statistikhengst
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #38
It is interesting, but highly unlikely that it will pass. Nonetheless, thank you for starting the thread, [MENTION=47163]O.R.I.O.N[/MENTION].
I would like to submit two very plausible reasons for WHY this petition was made:
1.) At the beginning of our republic, with the first census, our Union's largest state at that time (Virginia) was just about 10 times bigger than the Union's smallest state at that time (Delaware).
Today, our nation's largest state (California) is 61 times larger than our nation's smallest state (Wyoming). Splitting California into 6 states of equal size would mean that each one of those mini-Californias would be now 10 times larger than Wyoming and so, the relationship of 10-1 would be restored, at least in the case of California.
2.) The saying that Texas has a right to seceed is a lie. But, according to the Annexation treaty of, I believe, 1845, Texas has the ongoing right to SPLIT ITSELF into a total of five states, but one of them must still carry the name of Texas. Were Texas to do this, then where he had 2 Senators, we would have 10. But were California to do this, where we currently have 2 Senators, we would have 12. Facit: zero-sum game between the two dreadnaught states of our Union.
I frankly see no reason for either Texas or California to split.
However, California itself has the 12th largest economy in the world. Were California a country, with a population of 38.3 million citizens, it would be either the 34th or 35th largest country in the world - on par with Poland, but again, with the 12th largest economy in the world.
As I said, I am pretty sure that such a petition/proposition will go down in a vote, but I think there are some plausible reasons as to the WHY component of this.
best to you,
-Stat
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION] [MENTION=31258]BDBoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=39072]mamooth[/MENTION] [MENTION=3135]jillian[/MENTION] [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION] [MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION] [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]
Just some nice people I invited to share in the conversation because I do think the information is stimulating and I want to take the partisan bite out of this and just let the numbers speak for themselves. It is highly likely that a number of people both on the Left and the Right would have no problem with their home state of California splitting itself. The question is more of the type: does it do us any good.
I will remind that the last time that a state split itself into two states was during the time of the Civil War, as part of Virginia separated from the Old Dominion and eventually named itself "West Virginia". Did you know that the original proposal was to name the fledgling state "Kanwaha"?
a few years ago, they had the 8th largest
The world is a big place and the EURO Zone continues to grow.
Mertex
Cat Lady =^..^=
- Apr 27, 2013
- 26,532
- 13,992
- 1,445
No, I'm sure they are not....but you seem to not see the big picture. They were doing bad when the whole state was doing bad....now the whole state is not doing bad.....geez, it's not rocket science....but I see, you want to keep pooping on their parade.....makes you feel more secure....
Harry Dresden
Only Adamantium Member
It is interesting, but highly unlikely that it will pass. Nonetheless, thank you for starting the thread, [MENTION=47163]O.R.I.O.N[/MENTION].
I would like to submit two very plausible reasons for WHY this petition was made:
1.) At the beginning of our republic, with the first census, our Union's largest state at that time (Virginia) was just about 10 times bigger than the Union's smallest state at that time (Delaware).
Today, our nation's largest state (California) is 61 times larger than our nation's smallest state (Wyoming). Splitting California into 6 states of equal size would mean that each one of those mini-Californias would be now 10 times larger than Wyoming and so, the relationship of 10-1 would be restored, at least in the case of California.
2.) The saying that Texas has a right to seceed is a lie. But, according to the Annexation treaty of, I believe, 1845, Texas has the ongoing right to SPLIT ITSELF into a total of five states, but one of them must still carry the name of Texas. Were Texas to do this, then where he had 2 Senators, we would have 10. But were California to do this, where we currently have 2 Senators, we would have 12. Facit: zero-sum game between the two dreadnaught states of our Union.
I frankly see no reason for either Texas or California to split.
However, California itself has the 12th largest economy in the world. Were California a country, with a population of 38.3 million citizens, it would be either the 34th or 35th largest country in the world - on par with Poland, but again, with the 12th largest economy in the world.
As I said, I am pretty sure that such a petition/proposition will go down in a vote, but I think there are some plausible reasons as to the WHY component of this.
best to you,
-Stat
[MENTION=42916]Derideo_Te[/MENTION] [MENTION=20412]JakeStarkey[/MENTION] [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=43625]Mertex[/MENTION] [MENTION=31258]BDBoop[/MENTION] [MENTION=39072]mamooth[/MENTION] [MENTION=3135]jillian[/MENTION] [MENTION=36767]Bloodrock44[/MENTION] [MENTION=36528]cereal_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=40540]Connery[/MENTION] [MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION] [MENTION=23239]westwall[/MENTION] [MENTION=38281]Wolfsister77[/MENTION]
Just some nice people I invited to share in the conversation because I do think the information is stimulating and I want to take the partisan bite out of this and just let the numbers speak for themselves. It is highly likely that a number of people both on the Left and the Right would have no problem with their home state of California splitting itself. The question is more of the type: does it do us any good.
I will remind that the last time that a state split itself into two states was during the time of the Civil War, as part of Virginia separated from the Old Dominion and eventually named itself "West Virginia". Did you know that the original proposal was to name the fledgling state "Kanwaha"?
a few years ago, they had the 8th largest
that was during the 90's i believe.....
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