Pentagon Plans to Shrink Army to Pre-World War II Level

[SmedlyButler]

reagan cut military services and the gi bill when i was in..

i served under reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember i served on rust buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship i served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the presidents after reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....real great huh............

we couldn't get shelf stocked parts to repair the tow missile system..

I didn't get foodstamps.it depends on what state you apply in. I made too much. 875 a month to support a wife and two kids...texas said i earned 50 bucks to much to qualify. So i moonlighted..

thanks

 

[eagle1462010]

The Military usually has the last say in the cuts when budgetary reality calls for reduction. Hopefully, (and I think this is basically what the Joint Chiefs are saying) the assymetrical battle field and small or non-state threat will be met with a smaller but smarter, faster, more maneuverable, adaptative Force. The Littoral Combat Ship is a good example of this philosophy. It's the Navies answer to the modern battlefield threat of shallower, closer to shore swarm type craft used by pirate-type or small state actors.Independence (Littoral Combat Ship) LCS-2 - YouTube

It is built in Mobile Alabama at Austall shipyard.............It's built out of aluminum.......double hull.........

One problem with Aluminum. Don't use it too much in colder waters due to contraction of the aluminum, especially on the welds........You can't even weld on aluminum in cold weather without preheating the surface.........

We have a blue water Navy, and these short range ships are not designed for that purpose. They should actually be in the Coast Guard for coastal patrol functions.

Just not in Alaska as the dang welds may break. Another problem. Electrolosis will pit the hell out of Aluminum...........A whole hell of a lot more than steel. I've seen one of Austal's fast ferry's out of the water........Hull pitted due to current going to the Hull. We repaired that by getting the grounds to the hull off the power systems.

 

[RandomVariable]

Reagan cut military services and the GI bill when I was in..

I served under Reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember I served on Rust Buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship I served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the Presidents after Reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....Real great huh............

A military man started things rolling, not Reagan:

Jimmy Carter: Federal Civilian and Military Pay Increases Announcement on the President's Proposal.

Jimmy Carter love him or hate him: http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1125.pdf

Carter is a very misunderstood President when it comes to military matters. He was not quite the dove some make him out to be.

 

[Moonglow]

I was amazed that PT boats were made of plywood..

 

[eagle1462010]

Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

US Navy Littoral Combat Ship Independence[edit]
Serious galvanic corrosion has been reported on the latest US Navy attack littoral combat vessel the USS Independence caused by steel water jet propulsion systems attached to an aluminium hull. Without electrical isolation between the steel and aluminium, the aluminium hull acts as an anode to the stainless steel, resulting in aggressive galvanic corrosion.[7]

 

[RandomVariable]

i served under reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember i served on rust buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship i served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the presidents after reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....real great huh............

we couldn't get shelf stocked parts to repair the tow missile system..

I didn't get foodstamps.it depends on what state you apply in. I made too much. 875 a month to support a wife and two kids...texas said i earned 50 bucks to much to qualify. So i moonlighted..

thanks

Same here.

 

[eagle1462010]

Yep. Aluminum Hull Navy ships..........That's really what we need............

I've seen the damage on these type of boats myself and it doesn't even take that much current going through the Hull.

 

[Moonglow]

Yep. Aluminum Hull Navy ships..........That's really what we need............

I've seen the damage on these type of boats myself and it doesn't even take that much current going through the Hull.

improper grounding?

 

[Moonglow]

we couldn't get shelf stocked parts to repair the tow missile system..

I didn't get foodstamps.it depends on what state you apply in. I made too much. 875 a month to support a wife and two kids...texas said i earned 50 bucks to much to qualify. So i moonlighted..

thanks

Same here.

same back at ya!

 

[SmedlyButler]

problems you point out. Interesting. Also the limitations of the "blue water" Navy in shallower water are exactlly what these craft are designed to supplement.

 

[RandomVariable]

Hope this isn't straying too much. If anyone wants to read some very forward thinking material on possible futures of the military the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. Army War College has some amazing articles. Strategic Studies Institute (SSI) | US Army War College Hagel's thinking probably aligns almost exactly with the thinking from here.

 

[Moonglow]

When do you think their iron-man suit will be finished?

 

[SmedlyButler]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Well that post was totally useless...thanks for the contribution

That "Look at your signature post" was meant for you. Another misdirection. Shit.

 

[eagle1462010]

Yep. Aluminum Hull Navy ships..........That's really what we need............

I've seen the damage on these type of boats myself and it doesn't even take that much current going through the Hull.

improper grounding?

The ground is the ocean. All electrical nuetrals must be completely isolated. Even the small transformers in standard start stop buckets in MCC's must be cut and isolated. Capacitive start run motors can even cause electrolosis ........I found a cap on a motor causing pitting on a hull on a oil field supply vessels..........

Electrical stray current is a hull killer in aluminum....

In steel construction ships we use Cathotic Protection systems which is different. We actually put a voltage on the hull to prevent corrosion at very low currents. Using what is called Saturable Reactors to provide the voltage.

 

[whitehall]

Do they have the balls to get rid of the babes? Does it make sense to put women in combat roles when there ain't a single babe who can pass the simplest P.T. test? Why turn Army units into sexual dramas when there is no compelling need for it and they are thinking of downsizing?

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.corrintec-marine.com/document_1/corrintec-fastferries.pdf

A little info on anti-corrosion for these vessels............

Austals built a Fast Ferry for New York at the same place building for the U.S. Navy. The buyer rejected the boat because of problems with the Ferry. I was working at another yard and we pulled it out of the water for repairs.

The Hull was pitted from bow to stern. I'm not kidding.

They didn't have a clue on how to isolate the electrical on that Ferry. We isolated and made repairs on the Hull.

These are the same dolts building the U.S. Navy vessels now, which make it no surprise to me that this happened on the Independence.

 

[SmedlyButler]

http://www.corrintec-marine.com/document_1/corrintec-fastferries.pdf

A little info on anti-corrosion for these vessels............

Austals built a Fast Ferry for New York at the same place building for the U.S. Navy. The buyer rejected the boat because of problems with the Ferry. I was working at another yard and we pulled it out of the water for repairs.

The Hull was pitted from bow to stern. I'm not kidding.

They didn't have a clue on how to isolate the electrical on that Ferry. We isolated and made repairs on the Hull.

These are the same dolts building the U.S. Navy vessels now, which make it no surprise to me that this happened on the Independence.

It says here they dropped the "Cathodic Protection System" to save money.

And don't try to blame this on a liberal...we were off doing our arts and crafts


..."Independence‘s corrosion is concentrated in her water jets — shipboard versions of airplane engines — where steel “impeller housings” come in contact with the surrounding aluminum structure. Electrical charges possibly originating in the ship’s combat systems apparently sparked the electrolysis.

It’s not clear why Austal and the Navy didn’t see this coming. Austal has built hundreds of aluminum ferries for civilian customers. The Navy, for its part, has operated mixed aluminum-and-steel warships in the past.

But Independence — the Navy’s first triple-hull combatant — could be a special case for both the builder and the operator. For all Austal’s chops building civilian ferries, the Australian company is new to the warship business. Austal set up shop near Mobile in 1999. Today, the shipyard has contracts to build 10 LCS, plus several catamaran transports for the Navy.

From the Navy’s point of view, Independence and the other Littoral Combat Ships are unique. As in, uniquely cheap. Each vessel is supposed to cost just $400 million, compared to more than a billion bucks for a larger, all-steel Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.

Lots of things — major weapons, for one — have been left off the LCS in order to keep the price down. The list of deleted items includes something called a “Cathodic Protection System,” which is designed to prevent electrolysis.

Independence will get the protection system installed at the first opportunity, and future LCSs will include it from the beginning, according to Pritchett.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Hope this isn't straying too much. If anyone wants to read some very forward thinking material on possible futures of the military the Strategic Studies Institute of the U.S. Army War College has some amazing articles. Strategic Studies Institute (SSI) | US Army War College Hagel's thinking probably aligns almost exactly with the thinking from here.

They better do a lot more short term thinking.

 

[Mojo2]

No need for the military. Al Qaeda has been decimated.

It is said that we tend to try prepare to fight the most previous war when our enemies are thinking of a different way to challenge us.

You would remove from the enemy any reason to try challenging us in a new manner.

You want to make us vulnerable to the OLD threats.

The enemy would certainly appreciate your attitude.

I was being facetious. Obama said it...remember? [MENTION=45791]Mojo2[/MENTION]

Sorry, Rocko.

You da man!

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.corrintec-marine.com/document_1/corrintec-fastferries.pdf

A little info on anti-corrosion for these vessels............

Austals built a Fast Ferry for New York at the same place building for the U.S. Navy. The buyer rejected the boat because of problems with the Ferry. I was working at another yard and we pulled it out of the water for repairs.

The Hull was pitted from bow to stern. I'm not kidding.

They didn't have a clue on how to isolate the electrical on that Ferry. We isolated and made repairs on the Hull.

These are the same dolts building the U.S. Navy vessels now, which make it no surprise to me that this happened on the Independence.

It says here they dropped the "Cathodic Protection System" to save money.

And don't try to blame this on a liberal...we were off doing our arts and crafts


..."Independence‘s corrosion is concentrated in her water jets — shipboard versions of airplane engines — where steel “impeller housings” come in contact with the surrounding aluminum structure. Electrical charges possibly originating in the ship’s combat systems apparently sparked the electrolysis.

It’s not clear why Austal and the Navy didn’t see this coming. Austal has built hundreds of aluminum ferries for civilian customers. The Navy, for its part, has operated mixed aluminum-and-steel warships in the past.

But Independence — the Navy’s first triple-hull combatant — could be a special case for both the builder and the operator. For all Austal’s chops building civilian ferries, the Australian company is new to the warship business. Austal set up shop near Mobile in 1999. Today, the shipyard has contracts to build 10 LCS, plus several catamaran transports for the Navy.

From the Navy’s point of view, Independence and the other Littoral Combat Ships are unique. As in, uniquely cheap. Each vessel is supposed to cost just $400 million, compared to more than a billion bucks for a larger, all-steel Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.

Lots of things — major weapons, for one — have been left off the LCS in order to keep the price down. The list of deleted items includes something called a “Cathodic Protection System,” which is designed to prevent electrolysis.

Independence will get the protection system installed at the first opportunity, and future LCSs will include it from the beginning, according to Pritchett.

It is pure incompetence which is normal unfortunately. Anyone around ships who wouldn't put it in the original plan, irregardless of price, should be scratching their unemployed butts.

It also doesn't address the aluminum in cold weather applications and potential weld cracks as a result.

Austals built the Ferry at the same yard before they even got a Navy Contract, and while it saves them money in the short run will it serve it's purpose in it's limited capacity or lifespan.......

I simply don't like aluminum hulls because of the severe potential problems they can have, and while cheaper it would be better to stick with proven reliable steel hulls.