peace proposal : 50% of Palestinian lands conquered by the Israelis given back, and halting of the settlement expansion.

[RoccoR]

RE: "peace proposal : 50% of Palestinian lands conquered by the Israelis given back, and halting of the settlement expansion."
SUBTOPIC: Wants • Needs • Requirements the Hostile Arab Palestinians Profess
※→ JoeB131, peacefan, et al,

(OPENING)

For decades, these various assessments of the progress toward peace or an extended cease-fire have come - and gone. There is no reason to believe anything the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) propose will be on the side of "peace." IF the aggressor forces of HoAP [in this case the Islamic Resistance (HAMAS)] are presenting legitimate terms for peace, THEN there is something amiss. That is very out-of-character for them.

In order to make this a valid discussion, you would have to define "Palestinian lands".

(COMMENT)

The Land of Palestine: 2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit.

The Islamic Resistance would have to abandon their General Principles and Policies.

It is the official policy of the Islamic Resistance to swallow Israel (lock, stock, and barrel) and assume all that is left in the Ummah (Arab Nation). Such a takeover will effectively dismantle the Jewish Homeland.

7. Palestine is at the heart of the Arab and Islamic Ummah and enjoys a special status. Within Palestine there exists Jerusalem, whose precincts are blessed by Allah.

Absolutely. ​

​

If you bombed my kid's school and killed him, I wouldn't just want my land back. ​

​

And this is where the Zionists are with the Palistinians. They have to maintain their Apartheid State because they know that if the Palestinians ever got in charge, they'd seek revenge for 80 years of abuse.​

then the Palestinians need to be informed that in their case,
violent resistance is useless indeed.

by pamflet dropped from the sky if need be, over and over again,
in perpetuity, as counter measure against Hamas propaganda.

where the hell are your creative problem solving skills man?
peace is achievable.

(COMMENT)

Its Islamic and Christian holy places belong exclusively to the Palestinian people and to the Arab and Islamic Ummah.

As long as the general population supports the Islamic Resistance, there will always be a latent threat from the HoAP. The Islamic Resistance is a cancer in the Middle East. It will eventually come to a decision terminator → the only way to achieve "peace" is to excise the cancer.

....

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Slyhunter]

Well the source is the IDF, I thought you had some independent impartial source.

the hospitals own cameras didn't count?
besides why would I have it from a source that wasn't there?

 

[Slyhunter]

Can I see please? is there a video I can see?

the you tube video that I already posted was from the hospital own cameras.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

the hospitals own cameras didn't count?
besides why would I have it from a source that wasn't there?

Where can I see this video allegedly from hospital cameras? you've seen it, well where can I look at what you saw?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

the you tube video that I already posted was from the hospital own cameras.

Ahh you posted a lot of videos, OK I'll go back and look...

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I cant find the video, you posted several - which one, which post number is it?

 

[Slyhunter]

International law provides for a right to self defense from a military attack, we call it fighting back.

If someone bombs houses, stores, schools, hospitals in my city killing babies, women and children, I will fight back, if rockets are all I have then I'll use rockets. I don't get why your confused about this? The Israelis are foreigners, colonizers, 50% are from Europe or descendants of parents from Europe.

so the only way Israel will have peace, according to you, is if they kill all of the Palestinians? So why thr fuck are you bitchin when they do that then?

 

[Slyhunter]

Well the source is the IDF, I thought you had some independent impartial source.

How about cnn.

 

[Slyhunter]

I cant find the video, you posted several - which one, which post number is it?

and here is the hospital one. corrected put the right one in. sorry.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

and here is the hospital one. corrected put the right one in. sorry.

I've seen thousands of hours of war reporting over the years. That report is simply parroting IDF propaganda, they were "escorted" (code for told what questions they could ask) by the IDF's "top spokesperson" defining the narrative. It is frankly laughable, likely staged scenes. The meaning of the scenes is given to us by the IDF, it is their "explanations" we are being given.

The report is "a rare inside look" and "it's clear, he wants this story told" which is the clue to its real purpose, an IDF narrative designed to promote propaganda and salvage the public image of the Zionist regime.

Here's what The Guardian newspaper had to say, three days after that CNN report, about this "Hospital HQ" claim, I hope you can read it:

Prior to their capture of Dar al-Shifa hospital, the Israel Defense Forces went to great lengths to depict the medical complex as a headquarters for Hamas, from where its attacks on Israel were planned.

The evidence produced so far falls well short of that. IDF videos have shown only modest collections of small arms, mostly assault rifles, recovered from the extensive medical complex.


That suggests an armed presence, but not the sort of elaborate nerve centre depicted in animated graphics presented to the media before al-Shifa was seized, portraying a network of well-equipped subterranean chambers.

and

Even the videos produced so far have raised questions under scrutiny. A BBC analysis found the footage of an IDF spokesperson showing the apparent discovery of a bag containing a gun behind an MRI scanning machine, had been taped [recorded] hours before the arrival of the journalists to whom he was supposedly showing it.

and

In a video shown later, the number of guns in the bag had doubled. The IDF claimed its video of what it found at the hospital was unedited, filmed in a single take, but the BBC analysis found it had been edited.

and

“Israel has failed to provide anywhere even close to the level of evidence required to justify the narrow exception under which hospitals can be targeted under the laws of war,” said Mai El-Sadany, a human rights lawyer and the executive director of the Tahrir Institute for Middle East Policy, in Washington.

and

The absence of evidence so far, is beginning to recall past US intelligence failures, most dramatically those preceding the Iraq invasion. It further isolates Washington on the world stage, and deepens already significant rifts within the administration itself.

So there you are, I looked, I watched it and I did my due diligence and I've done this many times over the years. power often lies to protect itself, if you find that shocking or unimaginable that's good, it is shocking so start being more critical about the narratives that are fed to you, the stories that are told by the authorities.

Soon I hope, arrest warrants will be issued and Nazinyahu arrested and put on trial and incarcerated until death for this despicable killing spree.

The purpose of the propaganda is not to give an explanation for what's going on, it is actually intended to stop you asking questions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

International law provides for a right to self defense from a military attack, we call it fighting back.

It doesn't say you can commit war crimes.

If someone bombs houses, stores, schools, hospitals in my city killing babies, women and children, I will fight back,

If Hamas was hiding behind civilians in houses, stores, schools and hospitals, Hamas committed another war crime.

Attacking those houses, stores, schools and hospitals Hamas is in is not a war crime.

 

[rosends]

I've condemned Hamas terrorism several times.

You said that you didn't know what to condemn. Now you say you condemned them? Which is it? And all I did was point out what Hamas has done that qualifies as a war crime because that would be something worth condemning. You still haven't condemned them for the things I pointed out and instead want to say "well, what about Israel." Why is that relevant? You said you didn't know something so I pointed it out and you haven't addressed it. Not surprising.

Instead of trying to shift the focus to me or onto Israel, why don't you follow up on what YOU said about not kowing what to condemn. Are the war crimes of Hamas something you condemn? Yes or no. Remember, this isn't about me or anything else. This is about addressing a specific point of confusion that YOU expressed about what to condemn as it relates to Hamas.

 

[rosends]

WATCH: Hamas terrorists admit - We hide under hospitals in Gaza

When Israel strikes Gaza, Hamas terrorists take cover in schools, hospitals, and other locations that Israel attempts to avoid.

www.jpost.com

if you can't trust Hamas, whom can you trust?

 

[rosends]

UN admits Palestinians fired rockets from UNRWA schools - UN Watch

The UN finally investigated the Palestinian storing of rockets in UNRWA schools and their use of the schools to launch rockets against Israel, all of which constitute grave violations of the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law. Key findings gleaned from the UN report: Hamas...

unwatch.org

if you can't trust the UN, whom can you trust?

 

[surada]

In order to make this a valid discussion, you would have to define "Palestinian lands".

It was all Palestinian land. Muslims, Christians and a Jewish minority who stayed after the first century. During the Ottoman years each group pretty much managed their own people. Look at the photos from the 1880s. They lived side by side and shared a unique culture. Nothing changed much until 1967 when Israel attacked Egypt.

I remember. They certainly weren't prosperous, but it was awfully nice.

Sad mess.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It doesn't say you can commit war crimes.

So why are Israel doing that then?

If someone bombs houses, stores, schools, hospitals in my city killing babies, women and children, I will fight back,

If Hamas was hiding behind civilians in houses, stores, schools and hospitals, Hamas committed another war crime.

Yes, "IF".

Attacking those houses, stores, schools and hospitals Hamas is in is not a war crime.

So this is a war crime then, we agree at last.

Christian mother, daughter killed while sheltering in Gaza church​

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You said that you didn't know what to condemn.

No I didn't, I said that; unless there are criteria for condemnation, one can't condemn. In order to condemn, the presence of criteria is implied and the same criteria must be used to assess each party to the conflict this is obvious but you seem reticent to accept this simple process.

Now you say you condemned them? Which is it?

I condemn them on the basis they carried out terrorism.

And all I did was point out what Hamas has done that qualifies as a war crime because that would be something worth condemning. You still haven't condemned them for the things I pointed out and instead want to say "well, what about Israel." Why is that relevant? You said you didn't know something so I pointed it out and you haven't addressed it. Not surprising.

I've said rather more than that. Before one condemns the 7th Oct attack one must determine its overall severity with respect to other such acts. When one does that (if one is honest) Israel's many terrorist attacks must rank as more deserving of condemnation. I explained all this to you but you don't recall.

You advocate selective condemnation, Hamas -> must be condemned; Israel -> must not be condemned, that's not equitable and inequity is inherent in militant Zionist ideology.

Instead of trying to shift the focus to me or onto Israel, why don't you follow up on what YOU said about not knowing what to condemn. Are the war crimes of Hamas something you condemn? Yes or no.

Yes.

Remember, this isn't about me or anything else. This is about addressing a specific point of confusion that YOU expressed about what to condemn as it relates to Hamas.

Do you agree that we can ranks such acts, by either side, in terms of severity? magnitude? like the number of deaths or the number of children or the total number of such acts and so on? For example if Israel carries out five times as many attacks as Hamas per year, then that fact should be used in some way, to rank Israel?

You know where this is leading and you refuse to go there, you are blind to Israel's state criminality.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It was all Palestinian land. Muslims, Christians and a Jewish minority who stayed after the first century. During the Ottoman years each group pretty much managed their own people. Look at the photos from the 1880s. They lived side by side and shared a unique culture. Nothing changed much until 1967 when Israel attacked Egypt.

I remember. They certainly weren't prosperous, but it was awfully nice.

Sad mess.

They know this is true but can't admit it so they must reframe it and distort history. Never forget the Israelis have the holocaust and antisemitism cards, these are used frequently when "justifying" genocide.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

WATCH: Hamas terrorists admit - We hide under hospitals in Gaza

When Israel strikes Gaza, Hamas terrorists take cover in schools, hospitals, and other locations that Israel attempts to avoid.

www.jpost.com

if you can't trust Hamas, whom can you trust?

Due diligence, sanity checks, prior examples, previous claims by specific individuals, principled journalists, common sense. You do not use that approach. You have a narrative and select reports and claims that allow that narrative to be reinforced, you are more interested in preserving a myth than accepting reality.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

UN admits Palestinians fired rockets from UNRWA schools - UN Watch

The UN finally investigated the Palestinian storing of rockets in UNRWA schools and their use of the schools to launch rockets against Israel, all of which constitute grave violations of the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law. Key findings gleaned from the UN report: Hamas...

unwatch.org

if you can't trust the UN, whom can you trust?

There are levels of trust, trust has to be earned. You don't just blindly trust the Zionists because there was a holocaust or because there is antisemitism in the world. These factors do not excuse crimes. The UN is largely trustworthy.